[garbulky]

You are absolutely not offending me by speaking your own mind....sorbothane, cork, granite plate, bamboo plates in a sandwich are my way to isolate from the room and from the other pieces of gears each and every one piece.... This adress the mechanical vibrations part....

For EMI i cannot explain all that i had experimented with, i go here little by little, if someone is ready to go far from his own prejudice or theory, he can try some simple experience.... I dont write science here nor pseudo-science, i only attempt to explain to myself the results of very simple experiments, with many kind of minerals that act like filters device to the electro magnetic field of all the pieces of my system and for the electrical grid of the house... I have no theory for that, i dont know someone who have one, i only try to describe the effect to the best i understand.... To put for example a bag of 1 bucks river peebles on top of the central electrical panel of your house is hardly snakeoil,nor an unscientific experiment or theory, only a simple installation to demonstrate a simple effect, i call that,yes, one of my audio experiment....Is it not better to advise that simple experiment for an upgrading effect than to advise to buy a thousand dollars new hype product even if the product are very good in itself ?

The beginners may read many threads about different, always more costly products, it is not my goal here, nor to sell snakeoil Hi-fi so called miraculous product, even if some are miraculous for sure, nor to sell theoretical explanations that i dont have really....My goal is only give hope to someone with not too much money like i was.... Is a bag of river peebles big money? If it is snakeoil at 1 bucks you will experience absolutely no effect at the end no effect in your headphone or speakers .... Try it and after that you can go on with my other suggestions or stop all that here....The rest is only arguments without end... I am only interest by simple tweaks, at low costs, methods, of cleaning and treating the system, no more ,no less...For me the miracle is there, not in my Sansui, so good it is, and boy! he is better than good, not in my beloved headphones, so good they are, not in my french dac so extraordinary it is, the most extraordinary things i had try is not buying only a piece of very good gear but simple experiments to improve any systems at cheap costs... Thats all i say...

A last remark about the KEF :i have never listen to them except the audio sample i listen to trough my own system.... But it is clear that with my own system i listen to voices, jazz smooth music,classical, acoustic music, and when i listen to it, it is like i am going down, calmly, the amazon river while listening to the sweet atmospheric moist going down from the sky and some gentle rain; when i listen to the sample for the KEF it is like a lamborghini going down a road ,seeing the details of passing speeding trees, i think the KEf are more articulately dynamic and powerful than my system and PERHAPS are better for electrical rock,for electro music, and metal symphonic, but probably not for my music.... Then this Kef would at best seems to be for me a sidegrade not an upgrade, and at a much higher cost, in fact triple mine.... Perhaps the real deal for some other peoples....Not for me, and clearly outside the goal of this thread: is it possible to have top audiophile experience around 1000 bucks all included ? At which conditions?

My best to you...





For the"non moving parts" aspect of your post, i must say that ALL pieces of gear vibrates not only the speakers, and they vibrate by mechanical causes but also by effect of the pervasive electro-magnetic fields on each little electronic components of all pieces of the system and from the electric grid of all that is in the house, and that induce a negative resonance mechanical effect trough all parts and links...The sorbothane effect is purely mechanical, and absorb the vibrations and dissipate some part of them in heat...The other materials like cork, granite plate bamboo plates, act also in a mechanical way, damping vibration but without dissipating them in heat, more in coupling-decoupling the vibrations, acting like complex spikes....i called that a sorbothane sandwich....

The minerals be it stones or crystals may act also mechanically to damp the vibrations but i uses them more like natural filtering means for electro-magnetic interference that plague all your house, room, and system, in a feed back noises pollution flowing loop...

I only put in my own words here some of my very low understanding of the experiments i have tried with success.... I waited for a true scientist to explain that... The goal for me was not nobel prize in audio but only audiophile experiences at cheap cost

Okay well I'll try it out. $1 is quite cheap to try it out. I have in my Wally World shopping carts a pack of rock pebbles. So here goes nothing!!

 

[richard51]

Put them on top of the central electrical panel of your house, or if you cannot, on top of the electrical strip of your system, or on top of your power conditioner.... I dont pretend that it will be the upgrade of the century, it is only a first little experiment to show you the impact of ordinary rocks on the sound experience through what is for me the real source of any audio system, the central electrical panel, and the basic E.M.F. before his audio encoding, not your dac, or computer, or turntable...In fact i think that all these stones on all the system lowered the noise floor somewhat, but i have NO knowledge in audio in general,then i will wait for some clue...

If you perceive a difference in sound, be it positive or negatively impacting, the experiment is a success in showing you this impact positive or negative with very ordinary materials...All system grid and sound system need some tweaking to their own particularities, but it is easy to make if you know what are the best complementary minerals to use for that...In general it is always better to use at least 2 kind of stones together on any link for that reason...This is fun like playing, relatively cheap, and at the end, a complete transformation of good audio system in very good one indeed... I will give you an example: if a system is very warm sounding,dark,lacking details, not analytical, i will advise some particular stones for a start for example cheap pink quartz among others , if the system is like the KEF speakers very analytical sound, i will advise some other stones first for a start...In case of the KEF i am certain that this ordinary pebble rocks will give a positive effect, but if your sound is very warm already or dark, poor in details, the chance is the pebbles alone will impact negatively... But the impact, be it + or- ,will be there audible... This is the goal... To hear some modification and to experiment by ourself the way some ordinary rocks affect the perception of sound through the filtering effect on the E.M.F....

The thing to be conscious of is that success is not instantaneous, you must use your ears, to reach an always greater level of sound, placing and deplacing the stones, each kind of minerals act like a kind of filter that affect the sound according to his own properties, we must use some other kind of minerals to compensate one direction in the filtering process with another, it is like a gradually improving trade-off compensation process toward a greater audio level at the end...

It is like a natural equalization process if i can use this metaphor, with placement of stones, instead of an electronic apparatus,except that electronic equalization dont modify so much the depth imaging, the musical timbre of instrument, the living dynamic,and act only with frequencies modifications of the encoded electrical flow, the natural more powerful filtering stones act on the electrical flow itself, cleaning it even before it was encoded by the dac and after its encoding also...(added note: i think now that the stones are passive device that lowered the noise floor of the entire system then dont act by some filtering effects mainly on each and every one pieces of the audio system,but act even more powerfully before the central electrical panel, then probably in some way to define by tech mind, lowering the noise floor ) ....At the end i have used only a few minerals more powerful than others, after trying many more....If you are interested i will eventually listed them here... My best to you...

Okay well I'll try it out. $1 is quite cheap to try it out. I have in my Wally World shopping carts a pack of rock pebbles. So here goes nothing!!

 

[castleofargh]

magnetic fields and radio frequencies radiate, even if a rock had some impact(reflection, or acting as a transducer) that impact would most likely stop at the area it's physically blocking. if it contains metal, and is right next to some electrical component, there could be a small impact, like so slightly increasing the impedance of the circuit, but I wouldn't count on this to be significant or even a positive impact most of the time.
I've seen the same sort of stuff to reduce the "bad" waves from a monitor screen and people having rocks on the desk or on the monitor. there is no scientific evidence that those stuff work better than a circle of salt around the chair. electrical issues should be met with electrical solution, not pretty pebbles.

 

[VenturaRoyal]

Thank you very much for your encouraging words.... I understand what you say about pricier systems perfectly....
In fact my own experience with simple experiments, is that THE MOST UPGRADING EFFECT in a system , if the links are already good, is absolutely not first the purchase of a so-called more costly better component, contrary to all that is said in almost all audio forums, BUT the implementation of each link of the audio system we already owns in a right manner in the electrical grid of the house .... For a ridiculous amount of money someone may upgrade really the system in his possession already, then assessing his real value and potential.... Upgrades are most of the time the reflection of insatisfaction with our own system, often not because our system is not good "per se", but because the system is inscribed (most of us are not being aware of this fact) in the electical grid of the house without any cleaning measures, and no adequate damping for any links.... It will be time to a real upgrade only when you will be in love with you already have, this is the sign that your system is already very good and rightly inscribed in the electrical environment of your house, then you are mature and ready for a serious upgrade that will not reflect urging insatisfaction but audio maturity...

The reason for this thread is to discuss between us new simple methods for that real upgrading of the audio links that we already possess before purchasing the "hype" products because of our actual frustation....Thank you for your understanding...It is not so often that someone read what you write...

Couldn't have said it any better.

 

[richard51]

Fine you speak in your armchair about my OWN experience, me i speak about my actual listening experience and simple experiments, right now,my speakers play some music with my system treated with many stones; i speak about some very simple means to modify positively the sound quality, at cheap cost, BY MY ACTUAL EXPERIMENT HERE.... Why trolling my thread insinuating that i spell magic circle? Why did you say to all people anywhere what they must think according to your concept of science? Try that instead, put some 150 gram agate banded of madagascar, with 2 chunks totalizing about 150 gram of black tourmaline on your central electrical panel, cost will be around 15 bucks , after that go , make a theory to explain "salt magic", and why not receive the nobel prize for it...And call that day: an audio day

I dont want to argue more here, and discuss with someone that always feel the obligation to correct me,and other people, here and at other place, about what we must think about our own impressions or experiments, i am only here to share some simple way to experiment at low cost some musical pleasure with some people and help them to do that ...Anybody with good faith can verify what i speak about for few bucks and you can also, with a little, a grain of salt so to speak, not even a circle of grains, of good faith...

magnetic fields and radio frequencies radiate, even if a rock had some impact(reflection, or acting as a transducer) that impact would most likely stop at the area it's physically blocking. if it contains metal, and is right next to some electrical component, there could be a small impact, like so slightly increasing the impedance of the circuit, but I wouldn't count on this to be significant or even a positive impact most of the time.
I've seen the same sort of stuff to reduce the "bad" waves from a monitor screen and people having rocks on the desk or on the monitor. there is no scientific evidence that those stuff work better than a circle of salt around the chair. electrical issues should be met with electrical solution, not pretty pebbles.

And by the way about what is "a small impact" impossible to hear or listening to.... This is about the brain hearing capability to hear microscopic information percolating at the audible level,by an engineer that design the chord dac family, you cannot accuse him of tracing salt circle i think,but perhaps i am wrong; this is what he say after a question about cable :

«Do AC cables make a difference?

In the 1980's, people started talking about mains cables making a difference to the sound quality - and I didn't believe it either - particularly as my pre-amp had 300 dB of PSU rejection in the power supply. But I did a listening test, and yes I could hear a difference. Frankly I still could not believe the evidence of my own ears, so did a blind listening test with my girl friend. She reported exactly the same observation - mains cables did make a difference to SQ.

To cut a long story short, I proved the problem was down to RF noise. RF noise inter-modulates with the wanted audio signal within the analogue electronics, and if the RF noise is random, then the distortion is random too and you get a increase in noise floor with signal. This increase in noise floor is noise floor modulation, and the brain is very sensitive to it...»

Write to him,his name is Rob Watts, explain to him that his blind test with only one person is a joke really,and arguing with him, leave me alone...

 

[castleofargh]

sorry I don't speak straw man arguments.
to be clear I doubt the objective impact of what you're doing, not that you're feeling an impact for doing it. if you think they're one and the same, the sound science sub section is almost entirely dedicated to explaining why we feel things that aren't happening all day long, and why we need specific listening methods to make sure a listening test is actually testing sound.
as for the rocks (for the 10th time Marie, they're minerals!"), something has a relevant electrical impact, or it doesn't. if it does then it should be measurable and we get our answer. but I don't remember reading much about rock implementation in electrical circuits when looking for RF shielding methods.

 

[Deftone]

Rock minerals for RF shielding?

 

[richard51]

Your insinuation about salt circle are straw man arguments about me in the first place , remember?...

And i dont speak about RF shielding at all.... The example where Watts speak about that is a citation i use to give an example of the brain capacity to decode very microscopic change,because of "small effect" supposed impossible to detect by the ears, but that " magically" percolate to the ears of Rob Watts ...If you can and want to read the context of the discussion...Personaly i think, but i am not an engineer that the introduction of some minerals upstream, on the central panel of the house modify the noise floor, then the perceived information, no relation with RF shielding, and Rob Watts is an authority about that, not me...

This is audiophile thread, that is about simple experiment and about this "subjective thing" really, that is called pleasure, not easily measurable,but real...And it is very simple to verify by yourself, without any apparatus with only this primitive thing called ears....You put tourmaline and some agate on the central electrical panel of your house, you dont use any technical measure apparatus at all, only this so inadequate, self delusional thing called ears with this so prone to illusion thing called a brain, no treachery, dont use your eyes to read some tech apparatus please,...It is an audiophile thread, not a "sound science" thread after all ...

 

[garbulky]

sorry I don't speak straw man arguments.
to be clear I doubt the objective impact of what you're doing, not that you're feeling an impact for doing it. if you think they're one and the same, the sound science sub section is almost entirely dedicated to explaining why we feel things that aren't happening all day long, and why we need specific listening methods to make sure a listening test is actually testing sound.
as for the rocks (for the 10th time Marie, they're minerals!"), something has a relevant electrical impact, or it doesn't. if it does then it should be measurable and we get our answer. but I don't remember reading much about rock implementation in electrical circuits when looking for RF shielding methods.

Well, this might help. I too am skeptical about this technique with damping. However, I've seen a bunch of threads go down in back and forth arguing over this type of thing. Both sides are 100% convinced they are right. He's the OP of this thread, so say your piece and just leave it alone as he requested. It makes for a much more pleasant thread that doesn't devolve in to bickering that isn't interesting to anybody.

 

[castleofargh]

Well, this might help. I too am skeptical about this technique with damping. However, I've seen a bunch of threads go down in back and forth arguing over this type of thing. Both sides are 100% convinced they are right. He's the OP of this thread, so say your piece and just leave it alone as he requested. It makes for a much more pleasant thread that doesn't devolve in to bickering that isn't interesting to anybody.

there isn't really anything to argue about though. I have been active in this thread and felt that me not reacting to pseudo science would be as if I was endorsing it. now my position is indeed quite clear and I can run away in the sunset, never to be found on the thread again.

 

[garbulky]

there isn't really anything to argue about though. I have been active in this thread and felt that me not reacting to pseudo science would be as if I was endorsing it. now my position is indeed quite clear and I can run away in the sunset, never to be found on the thread again.

Well you don't have to go away... but if you will, you must always ride calmly in to the sunset on a majestic horse.

 

[richard51]

I never have any science pretension in the first place, only want to share some simple experiment, with others....Iam not the one who pretend that i know WHY this simple experience make sense( i can only speculate ), i dont pretend either and promulgate like some that it dont make sense at all, without even willing trying it in the first place, and calling others that propose it to try, "salt sorcerer" ...I only WANT, it is written in the beginning of this thread, SHARE with some good faith people about some questions related to audiophile experience and some simple means to improve it.... I dont want and dont like to be inforced in the right state of mind by self appointed "science police"... Thats all...i hope to be clear...I will wait to see if someone will try it...best regards to all of you...

 

[m17xr2b]

Easy 1000$ guide. Get the HD650 some amp/dac you like and never listen to anything better/more expensive and you are golden. It's not that equipment is expensive, at least in my case I wanted better than what I had mostly because of the vastly misleading head-fi posts where every new gadget was vastly better then the previous one.Yes I did get there 5 years later but looking back I can't really say I have any extra enjoyment than when I was listening to crappy mp3 players when they first came out. Can I go back? No. Do I wish I just settled with something basic? Maybe but it's too late now that I heard and owned so much good gear.

 

[Whazzzup]

2nd tier equipment that can get one close to top audiophile sound.
server 3500-7000
dac 2000-5000
amp 2000-4500
HP 2000
cables, power, etc 3000
Total 10-18 G and this is not top tier if $ means anything.
Now one can cut out or back on every step to get back to 1 G and I'm sure its ok, just quit head fi, don't test or go to meets.

 

[iDesign]

The Sennheiser HD 660 S and a Chord Mojo would be ideal.