To crossfeed or not to crossfeed? That is the question...

[Ryokan]

That's also how you get stereo from two mono tracks. Of course the two mono tracks have to make sense with each other to combine into a stereo track that makes sense, so 2 random mono tracks having nothing to do with each other do not form a stereo track that makes sense.

It would have to be 2 mono tracks the same, or near identical, and then it wouldn't sound quite right as there would be no panning left to right or other effects which sometimes occur on one side. So it would be a crude form of stereo.

 

[bigshot]

It was mono music, the same mono music in both channels… just one was inverted phase to the other. If you merged the channels, it would cancel and you’ll end up with no sound. Basically like a mono null test.

 

[VNandor]

It was a mono track split to stereo and one side out of phase to the other. With headphones it sounded ok because each channel was isolated and had no chance to cancel. But when it was played back on speakers it didn’t matter how much volume you boosted it to, it cancelled out and sounded roughly the same. The meters showed that the sound was loud, but it didn’t sound loud.

You can not be serious. This will never sound "ok" on headphones. You're most likely misremembering something because the chances of both you and whoever doing the mix being deaf to this problem is unlikely to say the least.

Here's a mono track that got splitted to stereo with one side out of phase.
https://filebin.net/k4og5i2zqwv6n86d (working for 7 days from posting)
The out of phase version sounds absolutely horrid, it should be definitely noticed by anyone with a working pair of ears.

 

[bigshot]

The editor said he didn’t notice it. Maybe he just thought it was fake stereo

 

[VNandor]

Maybe he lied to you because this is not something that can go unnoticed by someone who aren't deaf in one or both ears.

 

[bigshot]

He cut it into a pro tools timeline along with the dial and effects.

And the mixer spent half a day mixing it.

Both were using headphones. The director noticed the problem immediately when they switched to speakers when he got there.

 

[71 dB]

It was a mono track that got transferred to a stereo digital file with one channel inverted.

I believe this is well established by now.

The only way to hear that it had been reversed on one side was to sum the tracks.

You mean inverted? Reversed audio is having it backwards from end to beginning. I can tell the other channel has been inverted by just listening (speakers or headphones, doesn't matter). To my ears it sound COMPLETELY different from the not inverted case. For me this is as easy as the difference between Han Solo and R2-D2! I thought everyone can tell this difference, but apparently its a superpower I happen to have!

If you listened to each of them separately, or put one in each ear with no spill between channels, it sounded fine. Try making a file like this from a mono track. You’ll see how it works. It’s a very nasty problem when it gets mixed in with a bunch of other tracks. In this case, it was music that had been mixed in with dialogue and sound effects. It was impossible to balance the level of the music to the dial and fx because the louder it got, the more it cancelled. The VU meters showed a high level, but it didn’t sound loud. And on closed headphones you didn’t notice any problem.

Yes, if you listen to the channels separately, there is no way to tell if something is inverted by just listening (Absolute phase is near impossible to hear). However, why would you listen to them separately? Mono sound in left and right channel the other one inverted doesn't sound fine at all to me. It sounds horrible to me because of extremely unnatural spatiality.

I don't need to make the exercises you suggest, because I have done these tests long ago. Of course out of phase sound mixed with other sounds is a really bad problem! You can't do much anything! When you notice a problem like this, you go back to beginning and have the channels in phase. Yeah, it it costs extra money, but that's life. Next time you know to avoid the mistake!

 

[71 dB]

Maybe he lied to you because this is not something that can go unnoticed by someone who aren't deaf in one or both ears.

Agreed. How can you not notice something like that and be a mixer (amateur or not)? My late mom would have noticed that!

 

[VNandor]

Was the mixer also an amateur? The correlation meter sitting at -1 should have tipped him off, besides the extremely obvious out of phase sound of course. The channels being out of phase going unnoticed by multiple people the way you describe is something that is so unlikely it makes me think this was not what was happening there. This is not on the headphones, this is on them.

It can't even be a multitrack recording with only some tracks being out of phase because apparently the L and R channels sum to zero.

 

[71 dB]

He cut it into a pro tools timeline along with the dial and effects.

And the mixer spent half a day mixing it.

Both were using headphones. The director noticed the problem immediately when they switched to speakers when he got there.

I can't understand how they didn't notice the problem with headphones.

 

[akmal2789412237682]

come on, just use -18db volume (but apply v-shaped eq)

 

[akmal2789412237682]

edit:i mean just use -20db volume (but apply v-shaped eq)

 

[Svperstar]

The crossfeed on the RME ADI-2 is high quality but I got tired of turning it off when I want to play games. I am a gamer and having sounds come out of the left when the person is on the right gets you killed. I'm used to how headphones sound without crossfeed so eh.

 

[evexMicle]

The crossfeed on the RME ADI-2 is high quality but I got tired of turning it off when I want to play games. I am a gamer and having sounds come out of the left when the person is on the right gets you killed. I'm used to how headphones sound without crossfeed so eh.

That makes sense! While the crossfeed on the RME ADI-2 is high quality, it can definitely throw off the immersive experience in games where precise stereo positioning is crucial. It’s great that you’ve figured out how to adapt, especially since you’re used to the sound without crossfeed

 

[akmal2789412237682]

The crossfeed on the RME ADI-2 is high quality but I got tired of turning it off when I want to play games. I am a gamer and having sounds come out of the left when the person is on the right gets you killed. I'm used to how headphones sound without crossfeed so eh.

What about rhythm v-games?