How is the P1 a knockoff? It looks nothing like the LC2, they have different sized drivers, and completely different FR. At the very worst, I'd say that the P1 was an improved CL2, but don't think they're actually related at all.
They both have a 10mm driver... The P1 and the CL2.
they also look a lot like these with the same size driver...
NICEHCK F3 - if you look at the sound graph it looks a lot like the P1 as well. But these are a triple setup but, I guess the Planar is 10mm. It seems there is a 10mm planar driver these china companies are using. https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-f3.23721/reviews
I can't say because a driver happens to be the same size it means it's the exact same one being used and that is the only justification it's a knock off? I rather see that as a coincidence rather than it was purposely copied and it's all the same sourced driver being used.
Many other IEM's have the same driver size but does not mean that they are a knock off of someone else. That's like saying a black IEM color is the same color used on another IEM so it's a knock off?
Yup. You're right. I got my signals crossed and remembered the CL2 having a 12.5 mm driver for whatever reason. It makes sense that 10 mm planars are common since they should probably fit within existing 10 mm DD shells with very little modification.
Right, I am just not sure there are a lot of planar drivers at all to be had at this point. At this size for sure. BA or Dynamic drivers sure but... These little planar drivers are a new thing. I dunno, if it is the same driver I think that would be a good thing. That is a hell of a price break.
These are not the same thing. This is not a knock off sorry. The P1 does not match anything out there in impedance, or power rating or sensitivity, design or housing, and if it's a true knock off the frequency range would be spot on exactly and you have to be able to distinguish that from being tuned that way instead of a "knock off" driver. I still don't see clear evidence of a "knock off."
I know the Chinese are experts at copying anything, but I'm not seeing it via the specs in any way shape or form. The specs on the P1 are better. So unless TinFi is taking the driver from the same source from RHA, they would have to do some real magic to make all the values go up in power, and sensitivity etc. That would be a feat in itself.
Can someone please explain to me what the specs even mean / how to interpret them.
Can we all agree that 5 or 10 mW isn't much? Maybe it is much for a 10 mm 1 micron driver in an IEM but as far as power demands for audio in whatever form it's not much.
But that's not all that relevant. Since 95 dB / 1 mW is less sensitive than other things. The Fostex T50RP-Mk3 is 92 dB so even less, HE4XX 93 dB is also less. But a bunch of headphones are 100+ dB / 1 mW. So that would mean they are harder to drive yes?
Most reviewers seem to claim they need/should have an amp and is at-least a bit harder to drive than some other things.
But then there's the 5-10 mW. Throw that onto 95 dB/1mW and you get 105 dB at 10 mW or so. But all those other headphones with a lot higher sensitivity they can pull (or at-least handle?) even more power? So they play a lot louder?
Should I interpret it as they aren't efficient but they are also not sturdy enough to handle more power or movement and as such should be played at low power with lower volumes only else they will likely break and that's the thing and as such they aren't all that demanding in power just not efficient?
Or what's the deal here?
Also if that is the deal how bad is 105 dB? Would it be as listening to 105 dB normally? As in pretty bad anyway? O should I view that different because that's peak volume but actual signal isn't remastered to peak all the time time and actual listening volume would be lower? Is there a (high) risk that they will break if one play them in what one consider decent loudness?
Is there anything which can help regulated the output volume like is there amps where you can limit output to 10 mW? Would that be a bad idea because it would lower the capacity where it may have needed to be driven better have it had been allowed more power reserves even if it would had averaged more of 10 mW?
Can someone please explain to me what the specs even mean / how to interpret them.
Can we all agree that 5 or 10 mW isn't much? Maybe it is much for a 10 mm 1 micron driver in an IEM but as far as power demands for audio in whatever form it's not much.
But that's not all that relevant. Since 95 dB / 1 mW is less sensitive than other things. The Fostex T50RP-Mk3 is 92 dB so even less, HE4XX 93 dB is also less. But a bunch of headphones are 100+ dB / 1 mW. So that would mean they are harder to drive yes?
Most reviewers seem to claim they need/should have an amp and is at-least a bit harder to drive than some other things.
But then there's the 5-10 mW. Throw that onto 95 dB/1mW and you get 105 dB at 10 mW or so. But all those other headphones with a lot higher sensitivity they can pull (or at-least handle?) even more power? So they play a lot louder?
Should I interpret it as they aren't efficient but they are also not sturdy enough to handle more power or movement and as such should be played at low power with lower volumes only else they will likely break and that's the thing and as such they aren't all that demanding in power just not efficient?
Or what's the deal here?
Also if that is the deal how bad is 105 dB? Would it be as listening to 105 dB normally? As in pretty bad anyway? O should I view that different because that's peak volume but actual signal isn't remastered to peak all the time time and actual listening volume would be lower? Is there a (high) risk that they will break if one play them in what one consider decent loudness?
Is there anything which can help regulated the output volume like is there amps where you can limit output to 10 mW? Would that be a bad idea because it would lower the capacity where it may have needed to be driven better have it had been allowed more power reserves even if it would had averaged more of 10 mW?
No it is not superior.
For the genres of music I listen to, I have tried almost every iem out there, and the CL2 is heads and shoulders better. I have listened to the the KSE1200 side by side and much prefer the CL2. There is not another iem that I would trade it for even in the 3k range.
The tuning does not work for brickwalled music, (or newer rap, which is also brickwalled) but technically it is up there with anything else on the market regardless of price.
Also the CL2 has no vent holes, the speaker dampening is quite the achievement, don't know how RHA got that done, but this Chinese company was not able to copy that part of the design.
Both have a 10mm planar driver, in a similar housing, only difference is thickness of driver 16au vs 1 Au.
RHA spent 4 years developing this tech.
I severely doubt the P1 can approach anything the CL2 does on a technical level, but it is nice that the genie is out of the bottle, and more closed back planar drivers are hitting the market.
Add: This tiny little 800 dollar iem has inspired me to put together an $8k+ full size quad electrostat speaker system.
So I really doubt a $150 dollar Chinese knock off is superior.
No it is not superior.
For the genres of music I listen to, I have tried almost every iem out there, and the CL2 is heads and shoulders better. I have listened to the the KSE1200 side by side and much prefer the CL2. There is not another iem that I would trade it for even in the 3k range.
The tuning does not work for brickwalled music, (or newer rap, which is also brickwalled) but technically it is up there with anything else on the market regardless of price.
Also the CL2 has no vent holes, the speaker dampening is quite the achievement, don't know how RHA got that done, but this Chinese company was not able to copy that part of the design.
Both have a 10mm planar driver, in a similar housing, only difference is thickness of driver 16au vs 1 Au.
RHA spent 4 years developing this tech.
I severely doubt the P1 can approach anything the CL2 does on a technical level, but it is nice that the genie is out of the bottle, and more closed back planar drivers are hitting the market.
Add: This tiny little 800 dollar iem has inspired me to put together an 8k+ full size quad electrostat speaker system.
So I really doubt a $150 dollar Chinese knock off is superior.
Based on all the comparisons thus far there is no way the p1 sounds as good as the CL2 regardless of the specs. It shouldn't either and it's not fair to expect that. One is $170, the other is $900.
The CL2 is a level up from the fearless S8f, which is itself a level up from the p1 according to some.
If you're expecting the p1 to be as good as something like the CL2, you're gonna have a bad time.....
RHA managed to create real bass from a planar driver, and I'm not hearing the same for the p1, I'm seeing almost everyone staying that it has typical planar characteristics which the CL2 doesn't.
Basically from the reviews and comparisons it sounds like it emulates the CL2 minus the bass. I'll probably pick one up when they flood the used market on here just to find out myself but the dislike for the CL2 shown by some boggles my mind, the level of detail it creates is unmatched,I swear they must've sent a defective pair out to reviewers.... or we really just don't hear the same things at all.
If the p1 even comes close, it's easily worth $170.
Based on all the comparisons thus far there is no way the p1 sounds as good as the CL2 regardless of the specs. It shouldn't either and it's not fair to expect that. One is $170, the other is $900.
The CL2 is a level up from the fearless S8f, which is itself a level up from the p1 according to some.
If you're expecting the p1 to be as good as something like the CL2, you're gonna have a bad time.....
RHA managed to create real bass from a planar driver, and I'm not hearing the same for the p1, I'm seeing almost everyone staying that it has typical planar characteristics which the CL2 doesn't.
Basically from the reviews and comparisons it sounds like it emulates the CL2 minus the bass. I'll probably pick one up when they flood the used market on here just to find out myself but the dislike for the CL2 shown by some boggles my mind, the level of detail it creates is unmatched,I swear they must've sent a defective pair out to reviewers.... or we really just don't hear the same things at all.
If the p1 even comes close, it's easily worth $170.
I think they were listening to compressed poorly mastered music on it, on cheap daps.
Every professional reviewer has the same take on the CL2 as us, its these part time hobby reviewers that have a problem with it. According to their logic a skull candy is better than the CL2, because it looks better on a graph.
Yeah, and the CL2 sounds like an electrostat iem with a dynamic level bass, makes you wonder what these people are hearing
Having said that, I really hope the P1 is good. More people should have a chance to give this tech a listen, I think they'll be pleasantly surprised.
I think they were listening to compressed poorly mastered music on it, on cheap daps.
Every professional reviewer has the same take on the CL2 as us, its these part time hobby reviewers that have a problem with it. According to their logic a skull candy is better than the CL2, because it looks better on a graph.
Yeah, and the CL2 sounds like an electrostat iem with a dynamic level bass, makes you wonder what these people are hearing
Having said that, I really hope the P1 is good. More people should have a chance to give this tech a listen, I think they'll be pleasantly surprised.
Ditto, I'm still interested to see how this sounds but not willing to Wade through the hype to get one RIGHT NOW (like was the case with the DM6).
I was about to jump on the early bird stuff, but I decided not to order the p1 now and wait for used pairs when someone who has reviewed the both said has the cl2 a much faster planar tuning.... which comes from the ability of the driver and damping.
Fast tuning=accurate attack and decay.... Accurate attack and decay=realism and detail.
One thing I'll add is that based on the hype, I think a lot of the more casual listeners who are ordering are NOT going to like this given the high level of detail, lack of bass impact and poor quality source files being used.... That's why I'm expecting a flood of "not my cup of tea" classified postings in a month or two.
If the P1 does not have the "bass" people want or expect, why would that be a reason to discredit them? I don't like a lot of bass for multiple reasons. That is the only major thing I see the P1 is getting Pood on for and for me it's not a strong reason if that is what you actually prefer.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
