[Kitechaser]

I especially like the parting shot. Classic.

It's the truth. You guys are sensitive.
China is known for ripping off tech. Is this news to you guys?

 

[holsen]

So this is the last thing I will say about this topic. And this is the point. Have you ever hear the expressions "Stop beating a dead horse" and "Let dead horses lie" its enough now: this topic has been exhausted. It is a now a dead horse, everyone understands everyone else's perspective .... lets movce on

 

[Hi-Fi'er]

I don't like the CL2. They don't sound "good". LOL. P1 all the way.

 

[Kitechaser]

I don't like the Utopia, LCDi4, IER-Z1R, Flamenco, etc etc etc
P1 all the way

 

[Hi-Fi'er]

OMG that's funny!

 

[Charlie Norwood]

Well I learned one thing from that I haven't thought of before at-least. In that high sensitivity of course mean more sensitive to everything and as such with a weaker signal to noise ratio because a weaker signal a more noisier output. Which of course only is true as long as a stronger signal doesn't create at least as much more noise as well.

I do have a bachelor degree in computer science of which half eduction was together with eletrical engineers too so I have done a few basic electronics courses and do know those things.

I still don't understand what from specs would make them hard to drive.
I do understand 95 dB / 1 mW is on the lower side of things.
I do understand that the lower impedience the more current you need to push through to reach the same power and I know for amplifiers that you sometimes talk about their capacity to deliver current so maybe there's some limit there.

But still 10 mW isn't much and 0.01=20*x^2 give 0.0223607 ampere where 20*0.0223607=0.447214 volt.

Is 0.447214 volt demanding? Is 0.0223607 ampere demanding? is 0.01 watt demanding?
I would assume the answer to all that is no.

So why is it demanding? Demanding because sensitivity is low so it need more signal to sound more? Yes. But if you aren't supposed to give it more than 0.447 volt / 0.01 watt of signal then how do it become more demanding because even if less efficient clearly you aren't supposed to drive it loud or how else to interpret that?

It may not play loud but how do it become demanding? Can one feed it 1+ volt of signal and go way beyond the 0.01 watt? Sure it would be expected to sound louder then but will it also break? 1 micron thick isn't think and much less thick than the other one you compared with with 16 micron or whatever and I'd expect with a very thing membrane you'd also want a very thin wire and as you may know a thinner wire have more resistance and with more resistance come more heat so not only are you slamming around the membrane more violently you're also warming up the wire more. At 1 micro thick membrane and tiny wires how much can they take until they break? Isn't that what they have put the 0.01 watt limit on? And then they may very well be low sensitivity but given that doesn't that mean that you are just bound to drive them only up to "low" volumes or else you'll break them. Not that they will be demanding because if you send them a lot of signal they will break.

Or?

I'm not really a math guy so I didn't quite get through all of this, but I'll try to break it down.

When a headphone is 'demanding' for power, that's because it has a HIGH impedance. The higher the impedance, the more power the headphones need to sound their best. When it comes to sensitivity, for example 95dB at 1mW, that just means: if you give those headphones 1mW of power, they will produce 95 dB of sound. That's all there is to it.

With the P1, yes they have low-ish impedance at 20ohm, but they aren't that too sensitive at 96dB. When it comes to how much power a headphone can take, that's usually provided: the P1 is rated for a constant 5mW @ 20ohm, while max power is 10mW @ 20ohm. Anything above 10 will likely blow the driver. Here's where the math comes in with your amp/source as it's most likely not putting out power at 20ohm - but this is really where my knowledge stops.

So, could your phone or not-that-powerful DAP run the P1 with out having to max out the volume? Probably. But, frankly, you can't always just look at impedance and sensitivity and make up your mind about how a headphone will sound with X amount of power. To me, I've actually felt that anything over 16ohm is going to need an amp to really get at its proper sound, though most people put that threshold at 32ohm. I have now and previously had plenty of low impedance headphones that are marketed to be easy to drive, yet, if they are >16ohm, they always benefit from an amp - and not just to make them louder - to completely open up soundstage, imaging, details, the low-end, everything improves.

And from the early reviews, that's what we're hearing with the P1. I haven't heard the CL2, but I've never listened to a planar headphone at any size that didn't need an amp.

 

[emrelights1973]

It's the truth. You guys are sensitive.
China is known for ripping off tech. Is this news to you guys?

All American space program for was a German “knock off” so? Everything is ripped

 

[Hi-Fi'er]

Yeah I remember when Spongebob ripped his pants. Anyways, Linsoul was where I ordered the P1 and I was one of the first 20 but they have not confirmed if I will get the Tripowin C8 cable? Hopefully.

 

[Kitechaser]

All American space program for was a German “knock off” so? Everything is ripped

I don't mean that as a slight. It's just an observation.
The CL2 is being manufactured in China, it was just a matter of time before some Chinese company copied it.
I am hoping the P1 is as good as some people on here are saying it is, because it is amazing tech, and at $150 more people can get their hands on it. It deserves to be heard.

 

[emrelights1973]

I did gave it a try, not because of reviews but also t2/t3....

I think they are the best value in headfi or even all hifi

So it is a good company

I am world and of 1000s iems and khans etc 150$ is something I can risk for a good track record

We will see soon

 

[Hi-Fi'er]

I did gave it a try, not because of reviews but also t2/t3....

I think they are the best value in headfi or even all hifi

So it is a good company

I am world and of 1000s iems and khans etc 150$ is something I can risk for a good track record

We will see soon

That was my thought also. I have yet to see a "these are awful" review of T2/T3 so even if they (TinHiFi) don't get these perfect it's Ok, as nothing out there really is, it's just a matter of taste. Who's to say what is perfect anyways??

 

[Charlie Norwood]

Linsoul was where I ordered the P1 and I was one of the first 20 but they have not confirmed if I will get the Tripowin C8 cable? Hopefully.

That option was grayed out and not available to select when I ordered on Linsoul (still added the C8 as $20 is a good deal for it) but if that option was available and it's what you selected when you ordered, then I would think you would see it on your email confirmation.

The email I received referenced my selection on the page:

SKU: TinHifi-P1-IEM
Bundle: +Tripowin C8 Cable/+20$


So I would assume that yours should include something like:
+Tripowin C8 Cable-Free only 20pcs

 

[holsen]

That was exactly my rational too. I was about to pick a new SE846 and tripped across the T3's. I was blown away by what Tin could accomplish in a $60 at retail set ... mind blowing really, given the price. They burried my 535s. So I figured I better see what they can do for $160....
That's pretty low risk. S8, 846, Andromeda will still be there if I'm not enamored with them, but I'm more than just a little hope and optimistic about the P1s

 

[Hi-Fi'er]

That was exactly my rational too. I was about to pick a new SE846 and tripped across the T3's. I was blown away by what Tin could accomplish in a $60 at retail set ... mind blowing really, given the price. They burried my 535s. So I figured I better see what they can do for $160....
That's pretty low risk. S8, 846, Andromeda will still be there if I'm not enamored with them, but I'm more than just a little hope and optimistic about the P1s

Planar are a lean machine that dynamic drivers can't match in some respects. If the P1 is really flat and neutral and has no bass or even a hint, great, that's ok. A lot of bass gives me a head ache after hours of listening. For me the mid's are the show, that is where all the info is mostly. I don't know many singers that sing one note and it's all bass for 3 minutes. I love my HifiMan RE-600 and the bass if flat and boring. Would I sell them? No. Why? They reveal detail in a pleasing way that is clear and precise but they are not forward. If the P1 is anything like that but more forward they will be keepers and that is the impression I'm getting. Even if they are not there are not may companies that make planar's that fit in your pocket or at this price.

 

[emrelights1973]

I own noble encore as well other iems

They are good but I will never buy 4 digit iem ever..

Chifi all the way for iems for me...

I am waiting the day of the 150$ Utopia