Another change I noticed in Tidal is that when a track has multiple artists, whereas in the past it would say "X and Y" and wrap them in a single link, now it separates the artists "X, Y" and each of them is a different link to their own page. Definitely better!
I still don't see how ASIO Bridge can help with the web player. The sound goes through the windows mixer anyway and then to ASIO Bridge. So it's definitely not bitperfect. I don't think that's what you claim, so how else does going through ASIO Bridge help the SQ in this case?
Asio Bridge sets itself as a inpout/output sound device and should work if the default soundcard is VB cable. If you had problem one suggestion is to download the desktop app first and set the Asio Bridge correctly and then change to web player. Since Chrome is using the default sound card settings this will ensure the settings to be correct. It worked for me!
Asio Bridge sets itself as a inpout/output sound device and should work if the default soundcard is VB cable. If you had problem one suggestion is to download the desktop app first and set the Asio Bridge correctly and then change to web player. Since Chrome is using the default sound card settings this will ensure the settings to be correct. It worked for me!
I have no problem since I use the desktop app (And recently also Roon... yes, I took the bait). But from the web player, the way to use ASIO Bridge is like you said, select it as the default output in Windows. That means that all sounds played from any application, any chrome tab etc will go through it. It will mix the audio from all of those apps together and perform sample rate conversion for everything to match what you selected in Windows for that device. It works, as in you hear Tidal playing, and it goes eventually through ASIO to your DAC (if you have an ASIO driver for it, otherwise if you use something like ASIO4ALL it will just send everything to WASAPI/Kernel Streaming).
But the "bit perfectness" of the signal is lost before it reaches ASIO Bridge, so my question is what's the advantage really?
Can someone help to explain a rather basic question of what actually happens when I adjust the Web app volume? I'm asking as I feed the output signal to my dac/pre via usb ans since that signal doesn't go through any internal amp in the computer, what makes it go loud or soft before entering my dac/pre? If you're wondering my dac/amp volume doesn't change correspondingly as is the case for some players that take control of the volume.
It might seem like a basic question...but it is actually several questions and not very easy to explain with a simple answer...but I will try.
Your first question regarding the app volumeis really a question what Tidal and Chrome does with your signal before sending it to the computer soundcard? As far as I know Tidal is just using Chromes built in abbility to send audio to your computers default sound device...whatever this is in your case. There is no option to choose the sound device inside Chrome/Tidal.
Your next question is what makes it go soft or loud? The signal via a computer is always changed in some way on the journey to the external DAC. Since Tidal's Chrome player is not bitperfect by design the signal will be even more changed due to sample conversions and additional jitter before entering the DAC.
Your third question is why Tidals Chrome player is not taking control over your volume? This is simply because it is not bitperfect by design. You can not choose sound device and it is not compatible with bitperfect playback like Asio/Wasapi etc.
Your solution for everything is to download Asio Bridge. It will act as a virtual Asio speaking i/o. There are many previous post regarding this software on this thread. Have a look for more info how to implement the software. There are also other software coming that helps Tidal to be bitperfect (Amarra for Tidal/Roon etc) and the new Tidal desktop player (not Chrome player) should have bitperfect playback for Asio as well (plus sound better than Chrome player)...but your question was for Tidals Chrome/web player.
Edit: there is actually several other software that do the same thing as Asio Bridge. For example FlexAsio and AsioLink Pro. Asio Bridge is just the most simple one to use and is currently updated. If you for example want to share Audio stream through the network to another computer and want to have more than one sound device you could have a look at AsioLink Pro as well.
Thank you for the very detailed answer. I'm clearly mistaken to think I was getting bit perfect signal simply by running tidal in the browser. So I can bypass this problem by downloading and playing through the tidal desktop app which sends out bit perfect signals to my dac correct? As for Asio I figure it doesn't apply to me as I use a mac. (I got Audirvana and I'm hoping it works in a similar fashion, selecting sound device and controlling dac volume etc.)
I have no problem since I use the desktop app (And recently also Roon... yes, I took the bait). But from the web player, the way to use ASIO Bridge is like you said, select it as the default output in Windows. That means that all sounds played from any application, any chrome tab etc will go through it. It will mix the audio from all of those apps together and perform sample rate conversion for everything to match what you selected in Windows for that device. It works, as in you hear Tidal playing, and it goes eventually through ASIO to your DAC (if you have an ASIO driver for it, otherwise if you use something like ASIO4ALL it will just send everything to WASAPI/Kernel Streaming).
But the "bit perfectness" of the signal is lost before it reaches ASIO Bridge, so my question is what's the advantage really?
First of all congratulation for being a Roon user! I would love to have it. Just simply impossible due to my OS. I do also think it is very expensive...but without a doubt outstanding in many ways!
When it comes to Asio Bridge you must consider that VB cable is a virtual output that with the help of Asio Bridge speak Asio language with Asio Drivers. As far as I understand the computer default VB cable and players output device is one and the same virtual output....just passning through the Asio Bridge panel. If you choose VB cable as output device it is really also the players output by default. You could of course argue about what Asio Bridge does with the audio when it passes through. In my knowledge it add some Latency doing this operation...but small enough not to be a big problem. Asio Bridge needs to have the playing audio to have the same bits and sample rate to work properly. You will have to set the default VB cable at 16/44.1 simply because Tidal's output uses this rate. If not you will not have a bitperfect playback...ie the signal will be sample converted. There is a very easy way to check if you are in bitperfect mode. If you cannot change the volume on the computers default sound slider (it will be grayed) you are using bitperfect playback. If you on the other hand can change the volume there is something wrong with the settings (ie not bitperfect playback). When I play music with the web player I cannot change the volume on my slider. Also the sound improvement tells me that this is true.
Edit: why is there a difference in sound between web player and desktop app you might say? Simply because everything matters. Chrome is used for many different things and uses resources that are not purely sound related. All resources that is used for non audio purposes (and sound related that is other than your selected sound device) is affecting the SQ. It make sence that a tailored player will do the job better...with less interferens.
Thank you for the very detailed answer. I'm clearly mistaken to think I was getting bit perfect signal simply by running tidal in the browser. So I can bypass this problem by downloading and playing through the tidal desktop app which sends out bit perfect signals to my dac correct? As for Asio I figure it doesn't apply to me as I use a mac. (I got Audirvana and I'm hoping it works in a similar fashion, selecting sound device and controlling dac volume etc.)
You are Welcome! When using Mac you will have to find other solutions. There are others here with better knowledge than me when it comes to Mac...but I know that Amarra would be one of your best choices to get bitperfect playback. However, there might be other solutions that anyone else could give you on this thread. I would also check if the Mac desktop app is bitperfect or not. I think it should be since the new Windows desktop app is..but I am not 100% sure.
If you have'nt tried the new Fildelizer 6.8 version I strongly suggest you check it out! The Pro version is no short of amazing IMO! It makes my music shine and the lifelike performance gives me shivers of pure joy!
Edit: If you are searching for the best possible sound make sure not to use any antivirus, firewalls, windows defender, indexing features or user account control. Fidelizer will then make sure you will get the most of it!
Well, I do not care much for Norton. Just about the worst antivirus around IMO. That subjekt aside...you can be perfectly safe with Fidelizer. It will not harm your computer at all...just prioritize and optimize your sound. But if you use your computer for many different tasks and not only for sound you should look for a antivirus software that does'nt use that much of resources that Norton does. I would go for Panda Cloud Antivirus if I was you....but that's me!
Edit: if you have a look at the information regarding the Fidelizer 6.8 release you will get a pretty good understanding about the security concerns. Since I personally have removed pretty much everything that is used for security reasons from my computer I must be very restricted how I use it...but this is actually the best protection you can get...as long as you know what to be careful of!
Edit: If you are searching for the best possible sound make sure not to use any antivirus, firewalls, windows defender, indexing features or user account control. Fidelizer will then make sure you will get the most of it!
Although I'm sure what you say is valid, that would not be suitable for 95% of users, who of course use computers for more than just a music player. Especially given that when using Tidal, one is connected to the internet and should therefore use "protection". Right?
Yes, this is of course valid just for using Tidals desktop player. If you are using the Chrome player there is always an issue of being constantly connected to internet and therefore more security concerns should be considered. However, if you just using the computer for audio purposes only and not using the computer to browse other sites on the internet or only visit selected secure websites there is little to be concerned about. I personally use only CCleaner and Malwarebytes Anti-Malware as my only security related software...except for Process Hacker. I use these softwares regulary and keep them updated. All my important software installation files is saved both on a non connected HDD and in the cloud. I do use my browser on secure sites randomly...but are very selective about the websites I visit. Never use my computer to Google new websites...only the iPad. Nothing serious have happend me for the past 5 years...except some Malwares that was easaly removed. If something would happend I will only have to make a fresh installation again. No big deal for me...except for the work of removing all unwanted softwares, security and processes again. If you use the computer for banking operation you should however be very concerned about the security...but if you want the best possible audio you should actually use another computer or a tablet for these kind of operations...
I have to say, you're doing a wonderful job of supporting Tidal HiFi users here, with your Windows > USB knowledge. Your selfless and enthusiastic contributions are surely appreciated by a growing readership.
In general there is no wrong using the iPad>ICC>DAC...but you would most certainly get a lot better using the i-Pure dock http://www.pure.com/product/i-20-vl-61429/ and good quality digital coaxial RCA cables like some people uses at Head-fi.org (no one mentioned...no one forgotten
). Apart from that option I would say that the greatest disadvantage with using an iPad as the only source/player is CPU limitations and the lack of good enhancers. There are though one good enhancer that you could try with your setup called Cardas Clairifier http://www.cardas.com/app/clarifier/. Works wonders...but only for a while. You will need to run it regularly.
The Blue Jeans Cables Belden 1649A 75-Ohm digital cable only costs $17.50 plus shipping, but it made a huge improvement over the $8.49 KabelDirekt digital cable! I felt as if I had cheated myself out of hundreds of hours of improved quality just for being such a tight-wad with cables, and it's not as if the Blue Jeans Cable is expensive either!
But then came the Amanero-based USB 2 module for the Metrum Octave MkII, which arrived four days ago. I am done using Coaxial or Optical inputs for the Metrum Octave MkII.
Tidal HiFi > iPad 3 > Apple 30-pin CCK > Moon Audio Blue Dragon USB cable > USB 2 input of Metrum Octave MkII DAC > Metrum Aurix > HD800
Having only just recently discovered the improvements available with a proper 75-Ohm digital cable for Coaxial input to the DAC, this USB receiver has blown my Coaxial source out of the water. Talk about feeling as if I had cheated myself for several months. I now regret not having ordered the Octave MkII with the USB option, in the first place. In truth, it could be that I've just never supplied the DAC with a "great" Coaxial source, but I suspect this USB module is pretty special.
Of more general interest to Tidal HiFi users...
I've spent a few hours comparing...
Tidal HiFi on a Win7 laptop as a USB source
vs.
Tidal HiFi on an iPad 3 > CCK as a USB source
... feeding the Metrum Acoustics Octave MkII, in both cases but, as of this writing, it's a tough call. I think the iPad 3 > CCK might be ever so slightly superior in having a lowered noise floor, which can unleash a lot of audible benefits, but it's hair-splitting close, if there's any detectable difference at all.
It's certainly not the night and day difference I got by abandoning use of a Coaxial source and going to the USB 2 module for the Octave MkII.
I should immediately add that my Win7 laptop hasn't been tricked out with your recommended tweaks but, just this morning, I did try installing Fidelizer 6.6 (free), setting it first to "Audiophile" mode, then later, restarting my laptop and setting it to "Extremist" mode, with both of the optional features enabled, and I can't say I heard any differences - same findings as stuartmc. More testing might be warranted, but I have to admit I'm biased by the form factor and ease of use with the iPad 3 > CCK.
For anyone who might come along and wonder how the iPad 3 > CCK can supply 5V power to the Metrum USB 2 module (which requires external USB power to operate): I'm using a Teradak Teralink USB Y-cable to pull only data from the CCK, while pulling power from an Energizer XP8000 LiPo battery pack. 5VDC doesn't get much cleaner than this.
Unfortunately, the iPad 3 cannot be charged while pulling data out via the CCK. I'm working on that - the CableJive dockStubz+ looks promising, as it allows injection of 5V power through a side port. I'm thinking I could insert it between the iPad 3 and CCK, to allow charging of the iPad 3 while playing, but I've not ordered it yet, pending a reply from CableJive technical support.
I also dropped 99 cents (big spender) on the Cardas Clarifier app for iOS, ran the long sweep and came right back to the song I had been playing - again with no audible improvement. It can't hurt, but my ears didn't detect any difference. Perhaps my ears need degaussing.
Really, there are so many variables affecting one person's laptop or PC experience to another's that we should be careful to test every recommendation ourselves, on our systems, with our downstream gear. For example, even with the same downstream gear, my wife's laptop is a particularly noisy beast compared to my laptop, for use with any USB DAC - and that's with no "tweaks" applied to either of them. I suspect her laptop would benefit greatly by "pulling out all the stops."
By the way... I've searched this thread and was surprised to find no references to the UpTone Audio USB Regen - a device that has had nothing but positive reviews from hundreds of early adopters, thus far.
For all of the Tidal HiFi subscribers using USB input to your DACs - whether from a Windows PC or laptop, a MAC, or even from an iOS device with CCK...
... feeding the Metrum Acoustics Octave MkII, in both cases but, as of this writing, it's a tough call. I think the iPad 3 > CCK might be ever so slightly superior in having a lowered noise floor, which can unleash a lot of audible benefits, but it's hair-splitting close, if there's any detectable difference at all.
It's certainly not the night and day difference I got by abandoning use of a Coaxial source and going to the USB 2 module for the Octave MkII.
That has been my experience, as well, but IMO this is because the iOS programmers do a better job of buffering TIDAL streaming. In other words, I have (almost) zero drop-outs with my iPad Retina Mini --> Airplay --> stuff... than I do with my Windows 7 PC or my MacBook Retina. Seriously, my iPad Mini has become my goto TIDAL playback device (and the UI is nice).
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