Tianyun Zero DAC - New 2009 Edition

[blawhh]

id guess alot worse

 

[G~mann]

WLC-1989

Many say that the Compass build and sq is much better, particularly the headamp.

 

[ScottieB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by G~mann /img/forum/go_quote.gif WLC-1989 Many say that the Compass build and sq is much better, particularly the headamp.

This is very very true, but the compass is also a good amount more expensive.

 

[WLC-1989]

This is my dilemma. If we put the Compass aside for a moment, and consider these 3 in a more sensible price range:

Zero '09
Pico
Xonar ST/X

Does the Zero, as a dedicated desktop DAC/amp stand out as the best choice in terms of SQ? I am more keen to get an external device, though not at the expense of possible sound quality. Does anyone here have experience of the Xonar ST/X and the Zero?

Any comments are appreciated!

 

[G~mann]

WLC-1989 How do you plan to use it? Primary with headphones? What equipment will your source be? How much do you value portability? I faced the exact same choice, Zero 09 vs Xonar STX vs the more expensive Compass. Lao and others here helped me put this choice into perspective. I believe for me with discrete opamps I could tweak the ZERO's sound signature more to my liking, warm and tubelike. This would sound great using the ZERO's line-outs. Many say the ZERO headamp is really bad and that not much modding can fix it. Now for nearly the same price the Xonar STX has very respectable sQ via lineout in addition to swappable opamps. I am not certain that I would be able to tweak it's sound to as great of an extent. But I may not need to. The Xonar also have a very nice headamp. It can output 5.1 dolby digital via S/pdif or to digital speakers. Though the Xonar is not as portable as the ZERO.
Food for thought. I'll stop here since your main question was toward those who have heard both and can comment on the sound quality of each.

G~mann

 

[laobrasuca]

WLC-1989, the real major general concern about the zero is the build quality. If you compare separately the build quality, DAC performance and AMP performance, the build quality is by far the thing that differentiates more the zero from the compass and stx. While the stx use a very impressive card design, caps and other crucial components (the basic I/V opamp are replaceable) and the compass is very well designed, very well soldered and also use nice audio components, volume pot and etc, the zero has been severely criticized due to its not so refined solder pads, components (caps, mostly) and design. At the same time, it costs only 100$, so you can't really expect to see high grade components everywhere, while the stx cost 170$ without AC/DC transform and case and the compass 330$. The second greater difference will probably the AMP section, where the compass should perform the best of the 3 mainly when amping a high impedance headphone. About the DAC, well, I'd say the zero really does a good job, really. With some weeks of use I can say you have a clear difference compared to the onboard pc solution. I would say the DAC is the closest thing the zero has compared to the other two, even if the other two shall do a better job, specially the stx (with opamps improved).

Me, I've chosen the zero, matter of money and the fact that the stx is not a solution to me (i got a laptop). If I had a bit more of money (ok, the double

), I would take the compass, to be completely honest with you. With all people talking about zero malfunction problems I was a bit worried to take one... But them it came out this new version, so I decided to give it a try. After all, I can improve slowly but surely the amp section by buying an dedicated amp solution when I grow up and have a good salary

For me, it's better to buy a not expensive solution now and learn about how to listen the music, understand how a cheap dac+amp compare to a built-in pc solution, get familiarized with the components, etc. than stay here in the forum only reading the reviews and trying to imagining how it could sound and simply wasting time while I could enjoy more of my music with a modest but better solution.

Just one more thing, if you are not an audiophile, do not delude yourself with the commends of the people here, not everyone can hear the same things or have the same taste or know how to compare and what makes the difference between different audio equipments. You can be just as amazed as frustrated if you rely to much on the experience of other people (eg, read this thread http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/can...ne-amp-425548/).

lao

 

[WLC-1989]

Thanks so much for your in-depth replies. In my current price range, it seems then I'll need to choose specifically between the Zero and the Xonar ST/X.

While an external device appeals to me more, I guess I'm going to have to wait for a direct comparison of the STX and Zero's amp. My primary PC is a desktop, so I'll probably end up picking whichever has the best SQ, despite portability.

 

[AudioPhewl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by G~mann /img/forum/go_quote.gif Caution! - very long post ahead. @ Phewl I have some reservations about the ZERO dac failures. How many of the original ZERO's failure were due to mods? I was real hard on the manufacturer of zero several post back due to recent quality issues. Come to find out one of the apparent problems was due to user's mistake. He coulda "saved face" but came back and openly admitted his mistake. How many others actions (modding) caused the early demise of their ZERO.

I've had experience first-hand of three units:-

1. Modded, still going strong.
2. Standard. Dead.
3. Modded. Dead.

Going over the modded but dead one, I couldn't find any problems with the work I'd done(keep in mind here that I've done PCB-level repair on laptops and mobile phones, though we're going back 6-10 years...).

The standard dead unit had a problem with either the solder on the DAC or the traces to the output section, and was DOA - and I was shafted by the seller(possibly the first to be ripped-off by Lawrence?). The modded dead unit either had poor solder to the DAC, or problems with the traces to it.

The modded unit, I ordered a replacement DAC IC, but lifted two traces when removing it. They are extremely thin, and aren't really designed to be desoldered at all IMO.

~Phewl.

 

[G~mann]

~Phewl,
Don't think that I am questioning your experience or your skills. My statements were not toward any one person or any one particular mod. I believe that the original dac did have quality issues. I just saying that those same quality issues may be the reason why it could not withstand some of the mods being done to it. For much of the same reasons you've listed above.

 

[blawhh]

still has quality issues?

 

[wynshad12]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blawhh /img/forum/go_quote.gif still has quality issues?

yes it dose! but at that price point.? one could still try a little tweaking ?
that been said..(@Phewl thanks for the your reply on the AKG-White -k701 as i really needed that information.)

about the new 09 zero dac/usb/hp-amp-----it have been burning that thing for the last three weeks plus- use age 20% computer 80% my hi fi rig set up... note.....I'M just looking to get what the ZERO has to offer...AS IS..
no MODDEN/MODDED/UPGRADE period. my only concern with this guy is the ANALOG OUT & HP OUT it is a some what harsh" and over bearing to some degree "which has me thinking"

what would this unit SQ be like using headphones with say 250--600 ohm's such as beyerdynamics senn 600,650 and so on
through the headphone out... @G~mann @Lao any thoughts on that idea
Wyn.

 

[G~mann]

I couldn't tell you since I've never heard the Zero. I am curious which opamp you have?

 

[wynshad12]

Quote:

Originally Posted by G~mann /img/forum/go_quote.gif I couldn't tell you since I've never heard the Zero. I am curious which opamp you have?

well ? not sure myself as yet as i never open it up" but i did bought it on idea that it was the (OPA627) BECAUSE THATS WHAT EBAY SELLER (SNOW") ADVERTISED? (the manual said it used CS8416 as decoder,ad1852 as digital- to analog conversion,....AND OPA2406 OR OPA627! AS OPERATIONAL AMPLIFIERS... the USB chips - PCM2704,1.1/16BITS/48khz
Wyn.

 

[WLC-1989]

I'd also like to know the difference between the OPA2406 and OPA627, and why both versions of the Zero are offered on eBay for the same price.

 

[laobrasuca]

same price?