[Darksoul]

Lately I managed to listen to Meute: You & Me on my father's system. It has a subwoofer, it's fairly nice, at times over accented but really nice. When the bass drum kicked in on that song it was thunderous, made me jump, made the room shake. I really liked that. I'm not about to change to speakers, I really don't like speakers overall, but that bass sure is nice.



My current setup is a Hugo + V200 + T1 and I really like where it's at. However, I admit that my T1 are not bass monsters, they are my clarity kings and I like the way they deliver the bass, but I figured when my finances are in a better position I could add a second pair of headphones that really bring the thunder.

I'm considering the usual suspects LCD-X, LCD-3, Fostex th900, Aeon Flow Closed/Open. But I'm wondering if there are other things I could add to the list so I could get that "jump out of my seat bass." I understand that speaker bass is completely different to headphone bass, I know the limitations and whatnot. But I'm sure I can get more thunder than what the T1 give me; almost none at all, but that's not what I have my T1 for. Budget? Let's just say that I'd rather keep stuff like Abyss ,Empyrean and its ilk out of the discussion. Suggestions?

 

[Goldvein]

The fostex you mentioned should definitely do the job. Worth checking out also is the Sony Z1R.
There is nothing like a good rumble to give your brain th tickeling.
See if you can get to try the different kind of headphones. Planar headphones has a different bass sound than the dynamic drivers.

 

[serman005]

ZMF Classic.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I have the Denon AHD 7000 and Sony Z1R; but at times I think the Sony Z7 is the bass monster in my collection. Your going to read polarized opinion out there, but they are worth a try.

With the Z7 MK2 afloat there are close-out deals out there. I found a new open-box pair of Z7 headphones for $360.

 

[zazex]

Some great suggestions.

But @Darksoul, I'd suggest you seek something currently attainable.
When your father's (or anyones') 15" inch subwoofer reproduces transient
bass, kettle, kick, or whatevever drum - it's usually in place on the floor,
employs a massive magnet and voice coil assembly, moves a ton of air,
and synergizes with the room.

Laws of physics entirely preclude that from happening with the 50mm or
70mm driver in whatever headphones you have, even if TOTL with the
top amp available.

It may be kicking out a watt or so, whereas an educated guess says
dad has maybe 250 watts RMS or so driving that subwoofer.

Finally, to keep this short but hopefully clear, a huge part of your
reaction to the subwoofer's output is your body's reaction; not
your head's. All of this incredible stuff we're getting out of headphones
today is still a head game. If you want your eyes glazed over, your
entire body moved, and the like > gotta go to a club, disco, call the
venue what you wish - in which someone with good ears and a rich
budget has arrayed a variety of drivers - many of them massive -
driven by mega powered amps that won't fizzle or clip - it's just
two entirely different experiences.

You hear and - more importantly - you feel their output.

Because remember, the nub of this all, our eardrum aka
"tympanic membrane" - is only about .01 thick and maybe
about 10mm in diameter. And, as I'm sure you know, it's
real fragile too,

So enjoy your headphones, and enjoy going out to clubs, concerts
if that's your desire. Two very different experiences, as noted.

 

[jmills8]

Zmf are nice but wont hit as hard as the th900. The Sony is ok but nowhere is it good.

 

[Darksoul]

Some great suggestions.

But @Darksoul, I'd suggest you seek something currently attainable.
When your father's (or anyones') 15" inch subwoofer reproduces transient
bass, kettle, kick, or whatevever drum - it's usually in place on the floor,
employs a massive magnet and voice coil assembly, moves a ton of air,
and synergizes with the room.

Laws of physics entirely preclude that from happening with the 50mm or
70mm driver in whatever headphones you have, even if TOTL with the
top amp available.

It may be kicking out a watt or so, whereas an educated guess says
dad has maybe 250 watts RMS or so driving that subwoofer.

Finally, to keep this short but hopefully clear, a huge part of your
reaction to the subwoofer's output is your body's reaction; not
your head's. All of this incredible stuff we're getting out of headphones
today is still a head game. If you want your eyes glazed over, your
entire body moved, and the like > gotta go to a club, disco, call the
venue what you wish - in which someone with good ears and a rich
budget has arrayed a variety of drivers - many of them massive -
driven by mega powered amps that won't fizzle or clip - it's just
two entirely different experiences.

You hear and - more importantly - you feel their output.

Because remember, the nub of this all, our eardrum aka
"tympanic membrane" - is only about .01 thick and maybe
about 10mm in diameter. And, as I'm sure you know, it's
real fragile too,

So enjoy your headphones, and enjoy going out to clubs, concerts
if that's your desire. Two very different experiences, as noted.

Thank you for the reply, but I hate dark, obnoxiously loud places that plays music I don't like, where people are drunk out of their mind. I know very well subwoofers are a different thing, I just want more bass while maintaining clarity.

 

[Mhog55]

I've never listened to any of them, but I've seen several similar threads that mention some cans from JVC, such as the Victor ha-sz2000. I'm not sure what the other frequencies are like though.

 

[corgifall]

I vote the zmf classic as well. Sony z7 if you don't wanna wait for the classics to be hand made. Between the original Sony z7 and the classic the bass is close on both and you feel the thumps! The vocals on the sony's sound like your in a bathroom sometimes though, that doesn't exist on the zmf classics. Both can be had for around the same price which is nice.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Maybe my biggest learning curve was the realization that the whole system is responsible for bass. That bass came from bass detail not bass excess. Bass detail comes from amp damping factor. So with low damping amp power you will find headphones get miss-judged. The muddy bass or midrange creeping fog is partially due to damping factor. Now the interesting part was when people thought they heard more bass, it was actually only a dB more bass. The simple fact here is that bass detail will appear to be more bass. After a great amp damping factor is reached the bass sculpture will release a style of bass definitions which are perceived as way more bass. That’s the magic and why running some; actually most headphones by an underpowered amp gets folks into negative bass issues. Besides amp damping the second most important “tuning” methodology is cables; the right cable then takes the detail from the damping factor and dials it in the next level.

Obviously the other two smaller issues is considering amp personality and source personality. Some amps are cold and some sources are cold. So we find every aspect of the system helps to get the bass where we want it to be. Due to the ramifications of these concepts come the revolving door of personal subjective and emotional opinions. Everyone thinks they are right about the bass quality of a headphone when folks should be talking “system” in the end.

 

[Darksoul]

Maybe my biggest learning curve was the realization that the whole system is responsible for bass. That bass came from bass detail not bass excess. Bass detail comes from amp damping factor. So with low damping amp power you will find headphones get miss-judged. The muddy bass or midrange creeping fog is partially due to damping factor. Now the interesting part was when people thought they heard more bass, it was actually only a dB more bass. The simple fact here is that bass detail will appear to be more bass. After a great amp damping factor is reached the bass sculpture will release a style of bass definitions which are perceived as way more bass. That’s the magic and why running some; actually most headphones by an underpowered amp gets folks into negative bass issues. Besides amp damping the second most important “tuning” methodology is cables; the right cable then takes the detail from the damping factor and dials it in the next level.

Obviously the other two smaller issues is considering amp personality and source personality. Some amps are cold and some sources are cold. So we find every aspect of the system helps to get the bass where we want it to be. Due to the ramifications of these concepts come the revolving door of personal subjective and emotional opinions. Everyone thinks they are right about the bass quality of a headphone when folks should be talking “system” in the end.

Interesting, my current setup uses a Hugo as a desktop only DAC, and a Violectric V200 amp. I'm hoping it delivers enough juice, I think it does. The bass I get on most stuff is really nice, but I want more bass capable headphones to just mix things up.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Interesting, my current setup uses a Hugo as a desktop only DAC, and a Violectric V200 amp. I'm hoping it delivers enough juice, I think it does. The bass I get on most stuff is really nice, but I want more bass capable headphones to just mix things up.

My post was simply to add awareness to this concept which I’ve been fascinated by maybe for 10 years. It’s not questioning your equipment but adding concepts which I found relevant to your inquiry. This information in my post is more or less simply asking people to be aware. And secondly it’s whole system dependent which would imply that each headphone has it’s own damping specifications.

It’s saying to the headphone universe; to keep whole systems in mind as at times our journey can alter by a simple equipment change of one thing; having repercussions across the board. We must always account for the fact that overall sound is the system not a simple pair of headphones. This can be why people burn through headphone brands; not truly spending the time to cater to the model’s needs.

I simply feel addressing your question the way I did on my second post adds a heathly perspective to the interest at hand. Many of us here found this out unexpectedly.

So I simply added the cable concepts as at some point in certain systems amazingly not even headphone cables, but a powercord change and RCA cable change could completely rearrange the bass to a different level.

It’s these slight changes that start to add up, and separate the folks who have found the magic unicorn and those still walking around confused, spending more.

If anything it reminds us to always be experimenting. Learning that bass only partially comes from the model of headphone chosen.

Also many folks have a system in change. Five or ten years down the road they will most likely own very different gear.

 

[Dawnrazor]

Lately I managed to listen to Meute: You & Me on my father's system. It has a subwoofer, it's fairly nice, at times over accented but really nice. When the bass drum kicked in on that song it was thunderous, made me jump, made the room shake. I really liked that. I'm not about to change to speakers, I really don't like speakers overall, but that bass sure is nice.



My current setup is a Hugo + V200 + T1 and I really like where it's at. However, I admit that my T1 are not bass monsters, they are my clarity kings and I like the way they deliver the bass, but I figured when my finances are in a better position I could add a second pair of headphones that really bring the thunder.

I'm considering the usual suspects LCD-X, LCD-3, Fostex th900, Aeon Flow Closed/Open. But I'm wondering if there are other things I could add to the list so I could get that "jump out of my seat bass." I understand that speaker bass is completely different to headphone bass, I know the limitations and whatnot. But I'm sure I can get more thunder than what the T1 give me; almost none at all, but that's not what I have my T1 for. Budget? Let's just say that I'd rather keep stuff like Abyss ,Empyrean and its ilk out of the discussion. Suggestions?

The bass is pretty extended on the M1060 and some reviews compare it favorably in that area to some of the Audeze cans.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Lately I managed to listen to Meute: You & Me on my father's system. It has a subwoofer, it's fairly nice, at times over accented but really nice. When the bass drum kicked in on that song it was thunderous, made me jump, made the room shake. I really liked that. I'm not about to change to speakers, I really don't like speakers overall, but that bass sure is nice.
---
My current setup is a Hugo + V200 + T1 and I really like where it's at. However, I admit that my T1 are not bass monsters, they are my clarity kings and I like the way they deliver the bass, but I figured when my finances are in a better position I could add a second pair of headphones that really bring the thunder.

I'm considering the usual suspects LCD-X, LCD-3, Fostex th900, Aeon Flow Closed/Open. But I'm wondering if there are other things I could add to the list so I could get that "jump out of my seat bass." I understand that speaker bass is completely different to headphone bass, I know the limitations and whatnot. But I'm sure I can get more thunder than what the T1 give me; almost none at all, but that's not what I have my T1 for. Budget? Let's just say that I'd rather keep stuff like Abyss ,Empyrean and its ilk out of the discussion. Suggestions?

You have to consider a few things that makes that hard to achieve and manage your expectations accordingly.

1. Speakers have separate specialized drivers, and the subwoofer has its own amplifier that has a lot of power even with a lot of distortion (since you're not going to perceive 1% THD below 200hz than you will clipping and lack of current). That means it's easier to tune the balance of the sound just by mixing the gain on the amps driving each specialized driver or set of drivers. A headphone has a single fullrange driver with one channel of amplification on each side. The closest to "thundering bass with clarity" is "a mountain range of bass with a Tower of Mordor in the treble to sear your eardrums." Otherwise if that tower of Mordor is also a mountain range you'll end up with auditory masking and make the treble too easy to hear. Other headphones just straight up trim everything as you go up towards 10000hz to do the opposite of auditory masking and make the harder to hear (ie easily obscured by any ambient noise) low bass easier to perceive.

2. Part of the perception of strong bass from a speaker system, much less one with a subwoofer, is that the soundwaves move through the room. Hard upper bass notes hit you in the chest and feel like a more solid punch. Very low notes will rumble through your seat, just weaker if you're not using tactile transducers. There's no way to get this on a headphone system, even if you get a gaming chair with a tactile transducer, which helps when something explodes in a game or movie, but not when the bass note is coming from a bass drum in front (this isn't like a car where the problem has as much to do with time alignment, so you can trick your brain into hearing the bass from the front by cutting the crossover low and applying time delay to the speakers nearer to you so they sync with the arrival of the bass notes from the subwoofer in the trunk) since you'll really feel it on your back and bum more.