[hodgjy]

A uber Gungnir hmmm. That would be fantastic.

I would buy that in a second.

 

[wahsmoh]

Wow! major ups to negura for conveying so well what some of us fanatics have heard. It is not easy to explain something like that in merely words..
 
on another note.. good point of the macrodetails.. I am listening to 2Pac "Changes" in 16-bit redbook and I didn't know so much existed on a CD. No treble harshness on a song that I recall having a more sparkly(and annoying) chime in the right channel, great feeling of recording space and backup vocals come through with haunting clarity.. eargasm
 
edit again: on another note, turning up the volume to get more bass doesn't result in more treble annoyance like the Bifrost Uber.. I think this might have to do with the boosted output of the Progeny that helps preamps get some more oomph like Mike told me in combination with the two transformers providing ample power. Better overall balance on the Progeny with bass that has balls

 

[purrin]

  That's what I was thinking, but isn't the DA converter hardwired to the PCB? I thought the cards were only for the output stage and USB input stage. I could be wrong, though.

 
If you pop open the Schiit DACs, there are DA/Analog out output cards sitting on top on risers over the motherboard. The USB card is also that way.
 
I remember Mike Moffat saying something like this... paraphrasing of course: "When you buy into Schiit, you are buying into a relationship. So when it comes time to upgrade, if you have a used Bifrost or Gungnir, you are ******* going to pay more."

 

[estreeter]

It would make zero financial sense for Schiit to release an R2R version of Gungnir within 12 months of Yggy's release. Naim and a few others might be happy to cannibalise their own product lines but I would be very surprised if Schiit did that - end of the day though, that's up to them. 

 

[SoupRKnowva]

  It would make zero financial sense for Schiit to release an R2R version of Gungnir within 12 months of Yggy's release. Naim and a few others might be happy to cannibalise their own product lines but I would be very surprised if Schiit did that - end of the day thought, that's up to them. 

 
 
I was trying to find the exact quote where Jason said they would do exactly that in his book, but it was taking too long. But the short of it was that if they don't do it to themselves, someone else will.
 
 
Edit: Found it
 

  Chapter 30: 
Death of a Product
 
Product Life Cycles, AKA the Game of Update, Assassinate, or Cannibalize
 
Okay, let’s start with the basics:
 

• No product is fresh or competitive forever, especially a technology product; the competition, and the market, can and will change—sometimes in new and unpredictable ways.
• Because of this, you have to think in terms of product life cycles—or, in regular English, how long a product will be a good, solid competitor in its market.
• You should determine (at least) a guess as to how long your product life cycle is, so you can be working on updates or replacements before the end of its life.

 
And, the bonus stuff that most companies ignore:
 

• Killing your babies is perfectly OK, if updating won’t make them a good product for new market realities—you have to be ready and willing to do this.
• It’s better for you to cannibalize your own product lines, rather than waiting for someone else to do it.

 
The above is why you typically see an iPhone every year. It’s why most other flagship phones are on the same life cycle—the technology, software, and market have changed enough in a year that a new, fresh product is required to stay competitive.
 
It’s also why you see new laptops and such on timeframes dictated largely by the release dates of new chipsets from major manufacturers like Intel—the introduction of the new chipset changes the game enough so that new products need to be introduced.
 

 

[kugino]

apple's been known to kill off successful and competitive products. it happens.

 

[jexby]

   
If you pop open the Schiit DACs, there are DA/Analog out output cards sitting on top on risers over the motherboard. The USB card is also that way.
 
I remember Mike Moffat saying something like this... paraphrasing of course: "When you buy into Schiit, you are buying into a relationship. So when it comes time to upgrade, if you have a used Bifrost or Gungnir, you are ******* going to pay more."

 
I totally understand the premise and intent of Mike's message.
and it's whacked that used Gungnir are posted for $750 and include no 5 year warranty?  pass.
 
but the fact that current schiit web site allows anyone to "buy" a self-installed upgrade USB or Analog Uber card for
 a) less than having Schiit install it (on existing unit) [makes sense]
but
 b) don't ask for people's Serial Number + Name to match up to an original buyer
 
means this "****** paying more" isn't happening now.   (yet)
 
would I be cool with Schiit saying:
 "hey, direct/original buyers of BiFrost, your USB v3 card is $X.  but everyone else (2nd hand market) cost is $X+$50 markup"
sure.
 
get those trickle down cards out soon, and I'll buy new faster than clickety click.

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
I totally understand the premise and intent of Mike's message.
and it's whacked that used Gungnir are posted for $750 and include no 5 year warranty?  pass.
 
but the fact that current schiit web site allows anyone to "buy" a self-installed upgrade USB or Analog Uber card for
 a) less than having Schiit install it (on existing unit) [makes sense]
but
 b) don't ask for people's Serial Number + Name to match up to an original buyer
 
means this "****** paying more" isn't happening now.   (yet)
 
would I be cool with Schiit saying:
 "hey, direct/original buyers of BiFrost, your USB v3 card is $X.  but everyone else (2nd hand market) cost is $X+$50 markup"
sure.
 
get those trickle down cards out soon, and I'll buy new faster than clickety click.

I totally get where Mike is coming from, and I agree, as a used Gungnir purchaser I'm totally cool with paying a moderate premium. After all, membership does have privileges. But I will say this, now it is different, but two years ago when I purchased my Gungnir used, I could not have afforded a brand new one. However; in these past two years I will guarantee that my genuine enthusiasm and ability to discuss the DAC intelligently has helped sell a few, so my hands aren't shaking either if I save a little as even a used Schiit owner over say a never owned a Gungnir client.

 

[conquerator2]

I wonder where does the audio-gd DAC-19 stands. They've just released the 10th anniversary edition. It's under a grand.

 

[wink]

Quote:conquerator2

 I wonder where does the audio-gd DAC-19 stands.

As an educated guess, on it's base...

 

[reddog]

I've been lobbying for a sarcastic icon for years.  Best I can do is lotsa winky faces.  My jibes tend to have barbs.

+1 yes it would be a lot more easier to have icon for sarcasm, than for me or others to apologize for ruffling someone's feathers.

 

[wink]

Quote:jacal01

 winky faces

HEY, I only have one face.......

 

 

[jacal01]

  I think I finally have my head wrapped around the long warm up times necessary for the Yggy.  For at least a week of thinking about it, the answer escaped me.  Then, it finally dawned on me.  It's the R2R ladder DAC.  Resisters do change with subtle temperature changes.  While this might be common knowledge the ninjas in this thread, the concept eluded me for some time. Then it hit me like a ton of bricks.

 
It occurs to me that another reason why manufacturers might have switched to delta/sigma DAC products, besides the ever popular cheaper (much) theory, is that the R2R DACs could have sounded like ass from a cold startup to the walk-in prospective customer auditing audio equipment.  The delta/sigma DAC may have been more appealing for sales right out of the box.  

 

[negura]

   
It occurs to me that another reason why manufacturers might have switched to delta/sigma DAC products, besides the ever popular cheaper (much) theory, is that the R2R DACs could have sounded like ass from a cold startup to the walk-in prospective customer auditing audio equipment.  The delta/sigma DAC may have been more appealing for sales right out of the box.  

 
 
This could be a good point, but it all depends on the particulars imo. There are S/D DACs that also take time to warm-up, like the Auralic Vega, which isn't even offering it's best "Exact" mode upfront. Even my PWD2 needed some time to sound at its best. But yeah not days.
 
I am not entirely sure, but I don't think the MSB Analog (R2R) needs a very long warm-up. Perhaps owners can advise better.

 

[korzena]

   
 
This could be a good point, but it all depends on the particulars imo. There are S/D DACs that also take time to warm-up, like the Auralic Vega, which isn't even offering it's best "Exact" mode upfront. Even my PWD2 needed some time to sound at its best. But yeah not days.
 
I am not entirely sure, but I don't think the MSB Analog (R2R) needs a very long warm-up. Perhaps owners can advise better.

Yggys will come and warm our houses