Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why delta-sigma kinda sucks, just to get you to think about stuff)
Apr 1, 2015 at 12:41 AM Post #3,511 of 6,500
Interesting stuff guys. Nice to know its not just lawyers who know the difference between libel and slander, haha.
 
My MSB Analog died on me and is sent back for repairs. I had dreaded this moment when I had to go back to my low-fi Emotiva DC-1 Stealth, but to my surprise, it holds up extremely well against the Analog despite being less than 10% of its price. Surprisingly, I don't feel that the delta sigma AD1955 is particularly annoying even on my resolving system (EC445/HD800 and KGSSHV/SR009), though it does rear its ugly head on certain vocal tracks. 
 
Perhaps this is more telling of the limitations of the Analog in terms of its resolution and technical capabilities. 
 
I am really looking forward to the Yggy. Might be a good time to think of selling the Analog once it returns from repairs.
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 1:13 AM Post #3,512 of 6,500
  Did anyone take notice of my picture and the shocking similarity between the Berkley Alpha DAC and the Progeny DAC. Aside from both being R2R they look very much alike..
 

 
I noticed and thought that's an astute observation. The trafos are presumably chosen for low capacitance to mains. Berkeley Alpha DAC though isn't R2R, its using an ADI S-D chip (AD1955? not completely sure on this).
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 1:30 AM Post #3,513 of 6,500
  If I calibrate certain aspects of my preferences to yours, I actually don't disagree on your observations. I can definitely see a lot of people observing the Rag/Yggy combo as too bright. Tonal balance is a priority, but not the highest priority for me in terms of DACs. Resolution and lack of digital artifacts are the top priorities. I intentionally brought certain CDs which I felt were sufficiently resolving for the Yggy. Some of the CDs I brought were custom remastered to sound right on a neutral (more or less) speaker system. (The RHCP CD was not one of them, my neighbor put that CD in there.) Did you get a chance to hear my setup, the custom EC 2A3 amp + Yggy on Sunday morning or afternoon?
 

 
No, unfortunately I did not, as I was busy listening to other stuff in the room (namely the AKG K1000 and everything that one Head-Fi'er brought to the meet - sorry, forgot his name!, and Frank Cooter's setup) and wasn't actually in the member showcase room for most of the one day I was at CanJam. I really should have listened to your setup, as that sounds awesome.
 
But I am curious for your opinion as to whether you think the Yggy is bright, or was it the Ragnarok that made things bright?
 
And thanks for stating your preferences and where you're coming from. Yeah, I'm the kind of guy who has to have the tonality right - otherwise, it really impedes my ability to enjoy the music.
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 3:18 AM Post #3,514 of 6,500
I just want to go on record as stating that I'm perfectly fine with any and all vendors contributing to my (ongoing) retirement fund and/or sending me gear free. Hell, I'm prepared to be more annoying than purrin, Mercer and Michael Fremer all rolled into a guy who acts like Jim Carrey in public and Bill Clinton in private, If I've learnt one thing in Thailand, its that corruption and graft aren't for people who want to go in halfway - here it's 'go big or go home'. Thanks in advance for your support. 
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 3:28 AM Post #3,515 of 6,500
I have no heard Yggdrasil or have any way to hear it at the moment, I might have come across as rude to some though purrin did understand me.
 
The point I was trying to give is that, sure, perhaps he has done a lot of testing of different DACs, but coming across as a little biased, maybe I was defending my purchase too, as the Vega is a $3500 DAC and he's comparing it to DACs like the Gungnir/Master 7/etc... which are quite a bit less expensive.
 
Regarding Hugo vs Hugo TT, I didn't like the design of the Hugo in the first place, it might sound good but seems like it's as much "love it or hate it" relationship for people and also some even claim a device like iDSD Micro being just as good.
 
I'd guess if you like Chord sound that Hugo TT might be a slight upgrade but without the portability feature.
 
Regarding DACs I've heard so far, I've had the chance to listen to Bryston BDA-2 DAC, Antelope Audio Zodiac Platinum, Auralic Vega, Schiit Modi, Asus Xonar Essence STX, Naim Audio something... as some from my memory not a big list but some really quality DACs and I consider Auralic Vega the most detailed and versatile DAC, even though Zodiac Platinum is the most expensive of the bunch.
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 3:38 AM Post #3,516 of 6,500
I just want to go on record as stating that I'm perfectly fine with any and all vendors contributing to my (ongoing) retirement fund and/or sending me gear free. Hell, I'm prepared to be more annoying than purrin, Mercer and Michael Fremer all rolled into a guy who acts like Jim Carrey in public and Bill Clinton in private, If I've learnt one thing in Thailand, its that corruption and graft aren't for people who want to go in halfway - here it's 'go big or go home'. Thanks in advance for your support. 


Although I have enjoyed your posts immensely elsewhere, this one falls flat. Care to explain your actual feelings in detail?
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 3:38 AM Post #3,517 of 6,500
  Na. It's cool. Really.
 
What I'd really like to hear from XVampireX is how qualitatively the Vega is better than the other DACs on this list. I have my own personal preferences, but I feel discussions of qualitative differences provides folks with the best kind of information. For example: "I like the Vega better than the Gen V because the Vega has a better sense of blackness, sharper better defined outlines to sounds, etc." or "I like the Vega better because the AGD/OR5 lacks soundstage depth" or "the timbre of the Vega sounds perfectly natural to me".
 
These are the kinds of discussions I wanted to spur. What things do we hear similarly? What things do we not hear? I find that in many cases, we tend to hear the same things, but differ on preferences. In other cases, some people can be dumb in terms of hearing certain characteristics, e.g. I tend to be dumb in terms of hearing soundstage in headphones. I can hear gross soundstage issues with very closed headphones, but as far as DAC soundstage, I don't notice much difference with headphones. I grew up as a speaker listener, so my soundstage neurons probably were not wired for headphones.

 
This is what I'd like to see.
 
By the way guys, please don't go and report posts from days and days ago. I'm not going to attempt to clean up after you lot after a couple of pages of replies have been made to a post. I'd rather see what Purrin is asking for above.  I see people getting too hung up on the opinions of Purrin and others simply because their "status" in the community, rather than treating them as just another member posting their thoughts. If I, Purrin, Jude or anyone else posts impressions of a product, it is just our opinion and not some kind of declaration. In my case and I'm sure in Purrin's too, I welcome different opinions and feelings because it gives me different perspectives to consider. 
 
I posted it in the Canjam impressions thread, but I thought the Yggy is fantastic. My test was a variety of acoustic music and instrument reproduction, for which it was outstanding. I didn't hear Purrin's Theta in the end, but I did have time to try n3rdling's Stax DAC using my computer and Audiophilleo 1, which had the same organic richness that the best of those old DACs have.  
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 5:47 AM Post #3,519 of 6,500
Although I have enjoyed your posts immensely elsewhere, this one falls flat. Care to explain your actual feelings in detail?

 
Sorry - most would have recognised it as sarcasm and not having a dig at anyone here : simply trying to lighten the mood when there was a lot of finger-pointing going on between various parties. Feel free to ignore / block me - no problem - I just came back to a thread that had exploded after a pretty ordinary morning dashing around in the heat and things may have gotten a little out of control. 
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 11:15 AM Post #3,520 of 6,500
Look what arrived today
biggrin.gif
   The NEW  AMR DP-777 SE.
 
The importer was nice enough to provide it for testing...  with my Eddie Curent 445 ( + LCD-X or TH-900)
 
Will it put my HUGO on retirement ?  (or I should say, on the road again)
 
 
 

 
 
.
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 3:02 PM Post #3,521 of 6,500
Well I don't have nearly the experienced ears that Purrin does, but I did listen to a lot of stuff at CanJam using my music and the HE-560 if I could find it.  I posted my thoughts on the Yggy in the Canjam thread (linked in sig), but in short:  I was impressed.
 
The thing is, I learned something fascinating.  We all know that our ears have to be trained to recognize subtle differences in sound.  When I hand my wife my latest greatest headphone gear to listen to, she politely listens and smiles and tries to be supportive of my hobby.  lol  
 
Well as far as I've come now, I recognized that to really hear the differences between these top end DAC's, I'd need more time with them (and probably a much better listening environment).  At first, I was just like my wife... "Hmm, sounds nice."
 
But later in the day on Sunday, when things had wound down a bit, I spent a fair bit of time with the Yggy/Rag/Ether combo in the Mr Speakers room and really got into the music.  When I went to my next stop and swapped back to my good old X5 (dual PCM1795, IIRC), it sounded positively closed-in and muddy.
 
My point is that I didn't have this "oh s**t" moment when I first listened to it.  That moment came later after I went from the Yggy to something else.  Even an hour with it was enough to get my brain accustomed to its subtleties, even if I couldn't consciously point out the tiny details that make it sound good.
 
I don't know if that rambling post made much sense, but there you have it.
 
On a side note, it was very nice to finally meet you in person, Purrin.  And I thought your amp was too bright for my taste.  :p
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 3:11 PM Post #3,522 of 6,500
I always notice bigger differences moving down in gear than up... must just be the way the brain works. I have one of the best setups you could ask for, and it seems pretty 'nice'. I step down, even a bit, and I'm like 'what on earth is wrong with this song?'. Go back up, and I'm back to 'nice'.
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 3:28 PM Post #3,523 of 6,500
  Well I don't have nearly the experienced ears that Purrin does, but I did listen to a lot of stuff at CanJam using my music and the HE-560 if I could find it.  I posted my thoughts on the Yggy in the Canjam thread (linked in sig), but in short:  I was impressed.
 
The thing is, I learned something fascinating.  We all know that our ears have to be trained to recognize subtle differences in sound.  When I hand my wife my latest greatest headphone gear to listen to, she politely listens and smiles and tries to be supportive of my hobby.  lol  
 
Well as far as I've come now, I recognized that to really hear the differences between these top end DAC's, I'd need more time with them (and probably a much better listening environment).  At first, I was just like my wife... "Hmm, sounds nice."
 
But later in the day on Sunday, when things had wound down a bit, I spent a fair bit of time with the Yggy/Rag/Ether combo in the Mr Speakers room and really got into the music.  When I went to my next stop and swapped back to my good old X5 (dual PCM1795, IIRC), it sounded positively closed-in and muddy.
 
My point is that I didn't have this "oh s**t" moment when I first listened to it.  That moment came later after I went from the Yggy to something else.  Even an hour with it was enough to get my brain accustomed to its subtleties, even if I couldn't consciously point out the tiny details that make it sound good.
 
I don't know if that rambling post made much sense, but there you have it.
 
On a side note, it was very nice to finally meet you in person, Purrin.  And I thought your amp was too bright for my taste.  :p

Excellent post-thank you.,Stillheart.,good impressions
 
Remember,Purrin was one of few members {correct me,if I'm wrong}who had the   Yiggy warmed up{think he had  it on for about 48-50? hours,at that point},so,your timing was  perfect.
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 4:09 PM Post #3,524 of 6,500
  I always notice bigger differences moving down in gear than up... must just be the way the brain works. I have one of the best setups you could ask for, and it seems pretty 'nice'. I step down, even a bit, and I'm like 'what on earth is wrong with this song?'. Go back up, and I'm back to 'nice'.

Yes, very much this.  I'm working (somewhat) hard to find upgrades and I often am close to convincing my self that that I'm not making all that much progress (or just fooding myself).  But after a few weels of habituation I step back for a few days and then compare my best implementation to a prior version and there is a clear difference and ranking...but it's not all that clear that I'm actually better off with all that habituation to the better implemention.  I think I am, but that may just be hope.   And I do think it is not just habituation, but also learning what's better.
 
Waiting to redo all this with Yggy.  It will take a few weeks before my view stabalizes a bit, about as fast Yggy warms up.
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 4:17 PM Post #3,525 of 6,500
"Waiting to redo all this with Yggy.  It will take a few weeks before my view stabalize a bit, about as fast Yggy warms up."--LOL
 
  We both ,might be in for a big, surprise...
 
Mike
 

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