[Uncle Erik]

Nickchen, I agree that the HD-800 is not for everyone. However, I'm not sure how you're grouping people based on listening preferences. I listen to Brahms (not so much the other two) but am a fan of some experimental jazz, classical and rock and a few more obscure subgenres. The HD-800 suits these well. No, I don't listen to metal, so if that's what you're referring to as non-mainstream, I think I understand. However, there is a great deal of non-mainstream music that isn't metal.

To the OP, one of the things you have to keep in mind with the HD-800 is that it isn't special necessarily for what it does. The HD-800 is special for what it doesn't do.

Most audiophile gear is heavily colored. That's done to grab you up front and make that sale. They want to close on the deal as soon as you get a taste of their fabulous coloration.

That often works. You'll love a flavor in the first few minutes and go nuts.

The problem is that you will get used to the flavor over time. This usually involves an upgrade and spending more money for the next flavor that grabs you. You'llget tired of it eventually, as well. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Neutral gear doesn't immediately grab you. It isn't exciting and sounds boring. The gear with exciting coloration always gets the attention and, usually, the sale.

The paradox is that you'll eventually grow tired of the colored gear. For a long while, the Grado RS-1 was my favorite headphone. But, eventually, I got used to its tricks and became bored with it. So I sold it.

If you want to keep chasing new flavors every so often, you can. It'll cost you, too. You'll be constantly chasing new headphones and amps looking for your latest fix.

On the other hand, you could settle in with a pair of neutral reference headphones and simply enjoy the music. You won't get sick of the coloration because there isn't any, or very little.

It's hard to see things this way until you've been through the colored gear cycle a few times. Once you realize what's happening, you'll understand why the HD-800 is special for what it doesn't do. I don't know if I would have appreciated the HD-800 when I was starting out, either. Especially when the RS-1 sounded so damn good.

So do what you want. You can always get another HD-800. But after you go through several more pairs of headphones, start giving some thought to buying ones without the coloration. You might hear things differently then.

 

[achristilaw]

In 1941 Les Paul plugged in a guitar and changed the course of contemporary Music. But that doesn't invalidate the Music from the preceding 2000 Years.

Broaden your Musical Horizon and gain an appreciation of instruments that don't require A.C. and enjoy the tonalities and inflections of acoustic instruments in real space.

That's what the HD800 is made of, by and for. My theory, that modern Music depends and thrives on coloration and induces it at every turn. Listening to a recording studio with it's many tracks leaves me wanting, your hearing the sterile environment for the fist time and it is un-settling.

Simple microphone arrangements in a real acoustical setting will always be preferable to the homogenized packaging that is Modern Music. That's why the enjoyment level increases when your favorite band is recorded "live" and a singer doesn't reside in a sound proof booth. Just something to consider!

 

[anoobis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ical /img/forum/go_quote.gif You might want to consider a CD player instead as source. It usually better than a DAC of the same cost.

I've been led to believe it's the other way round. A CDP includes the DAC and all of the reading mechanism. It's surely cheaper to build the DAC section only. Unless economies of scale win out here.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Remember there are not too many things in life that do not happen for a reason. Most people here who have systems that they are happy with have spent a lot of time and energy into what they have made for themselves. Some times this conquest has lasted a good part of a lifetime. There has not been many wins without failure and even in the audio failure world there is something to learn. If we give up we walk away as the first losers, we only loose, if we struggle onward we reap the benefits of our cause. If this was so easy you could just buy some stand alone system that works. It is very personal and time consuming for most but the rewards are high in the end. The goal is to look at your mistakes as stepping stones to a dream system that you created with sweat and blood. You know it was the best you could do and did it so you earned character. No one can take that experience from you in the end and it makes you smart and strong.

 

[nickchen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nickchen, I agree that the HD-800 is not for everyone. However, I'm not sure how you're grouping people based on listening preferences. I listen to Brahms (not so much the other two) but am a fan of some experimental jazz, classical and rock and a few more obscure subgenres. The HD-800 suits these well. No, I don't listen to metal, so if that's what you're referring to as non-mainstream, I think I understand. However, there is a great deal of non-mainstream music that isn't metal.

Corrrect, e.g. the wide field of electronica and post-rock (Mogwai & alike). That is what I listen to mainly, and that stuff only sounds mediocre with the HD800.

 

[johnwmclean]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickchen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Corrrect, e.g. the wide field of electronica and post-rock (Mogwai & alike). That is what I listen to mainly, and that stuff only sounds mediocre with the HD800.

Totally, if you’re genre specific, you may prefer a more coloured phone to suit whatever it is you desire within that music.

 

[nickchen]

But not too coloured, I hate Ultrasones or ATs. Alessandros are just the perfect compromise between emotion & neutrality. The HD800, the K701 and most E-stats are too neutral.

 

[wink]

I always assumed Hifi was that all the components should be as close to neutral as possible.
Thank you Uncle Erik for putting the skids so succinctly under the majority of high end audiophile products who are more interested in turning a dollar than producing a real (read authentic) high fidelity product.

 

[nickchen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wink /img/forum/go_quote.gif I always assumed Hifi was that all the components should be as close to neutral as possible.

That's a dogma.

 

[Anouk]

Hello well coloured or uncoloured (neutral sound)isnt the end all. I personally found soundstage and imaging ability the most important of all and a lot of more coloured headphones just dont do this as well as the hd800.
Greetings, Anouk,

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickchen /img/forum/go_quote.gif But not too coloured, I hate Ultrasones or ATs. Alessandros are just the perfect compromise between emotion & neutrality. The HD800, the K701 and most E-stats are too neutral.

You haven't tried enough electrostats then.

My Lambda Nova Signatures, SR-5NB I own and the Omega 2s I used for a while are far from neutral. The SR-5NB are actually very like Grados in many respects.

Audio ends up being about choosing what "flavour" of sound one wants. Most people, coming across gear that imposes itself as little as possible on the music (and reveals as much as possible about the recording and other connected components) can be a huge let-down. It's fair enough that many people just aren't interested in that kind of "sound".

 

[b0dhi]

DC5Zilla, your ears are acclimatising to the sound of the HD800. A similar thing has happened to me, as I used to prefer lots of bass, but over time this has changed due to the fact that I've been listening to less bassy headphones. My suggestion is to give it a couple more weeks, but only listen to the HD800 during that time.

 

[nickchen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif You haven't tried enough electrostats then. My Lambda Nova Signatures, SR-5NB I own and the Omega 2s I used for a while are far from neutral. The SR-5NB are actually very like Grados in many respects.

I really like NoXter's vintage Lambda Pro, but I don't like the actual Stax portfolio, except the 4070.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wink /img/forum/go_quote.gif I always assumed Hifi was that all the components should be as close to neutral as possible. Thank you Uncle Erik for putting the skids so succinctly under the majority of high end audiophile products who are more interested in turning a dollar than producing a real (read authentic) high fidelity product.

Oh, no. Audiophilia is all about coloration. If you want neutral gear, look to professional audio. You can find wonderfully flat speakers, headphones and amplifiers. Usually, they're fairly priced and of high quality.

However, you rarely see pro gear cross over to the audiophile side. A few things have, like the AKG K-1000, Stax 4070 and Grado HP-1000. To a lesser extent, the Beyerdynamic DT48. But the DT48 is truly hated by a lot of people who have tried it. It is as transparent as the HD-800 (remarkably so) and its response is ruler flat.

From audiophiles, pro gear always gets the same damning "no bass" review. However, those who record and produce music, as well as perform it, always go with the alleged "no bass" sound. Why? Because that's how bass sounds in the real world.

I'm not going to slam people who like exaggerated bass. My stock car radio is loaded with it and it can be fun for casual listening. But that's not how things sound in the real world.

Anyone who disagrees should make plans to attend a concert at the local community orchestra. Close your eyes and concentrate on feeling the "slam" of the tubas and tympanis.

You won't. There will be no slam. What you will hear is almost exactly what a HD-800, DT48, K-501, and many other quality neutral headphones provide.

Also, you can find terrific bargains in commercial/professional gear. The amps are robust and designed to stand up to heavy use, as are the CD players. CD players designed to run 24 hours straight at radio stations will hold up for years and years in casual home use. There's much to like on the pro side as long as you're not after coloration and prestige.

 

[Hardflip]

I don't know why the Pico Dac would be the limiting factor for your system. I have one and find that it sounds excellent. It has a flat, balanced sound with great definition and texture.

I vote for giving the HD800 a longer time for you to get used to its sound. Though I have not heard one yet, from many of the desriptions it sounds a lot like K701, which has a similiar flat, polite sound. But once you became acclimated to it, music opens up in subtle ways you have never noticed. The HD800 seems to have taken that sort of refinement to stratospheric level. So give the whole system a chance to train your ears.