[Drumonron]

It's getting ugly in hear....but I can't help coming onto this thread for a laugh! It's the rubber necking thing.

 

[evilking]

2400 posts!

I wouldn't be proud of a thread like this.

Nearly two and a half thousand posts, spanning 1 and a half years!

No signs of improvement either. I read a post a couple pages back, someone ordered a SuperMacro Jan 07, recieved it May 07, turned out defective, returned it May 07, then recieved the replacement December 07!

Shouldn't this thread be sticky?



Good luck to all with outstanding orders.

EK

 

[sfflyfish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JarodL1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif it is nothing more then a horrible way to run a business.

Not to single any one out here. The quote above was just the closest one I found.

All the posters crying about Zin running his 'business' poorly might want to consider that possibly (obviously?) Zin is not running a business within the customary definition of the word?

I mean Really! How obvious can it be that he doesn't pursue this venture for money? (Which I strongly doubt he needs?) Are not most actual businesses founded on ultimately exchanging something for cash.

Since unless one uses Paypal, Zin receives zero income until he sends you an amp. This makes it glaringly apparent the cash flow aspect of his 'business' is at the bottom of Zin's totem pole. Is it not logical to then assume that Zin does what he does because it satisfies him in a way peculiar to Zin?

 

[Jalo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfflyfish /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not to single any one out here. The quote above was just the closest one I found. All the posters crying about Zin running his 'business' poorly might want to consider that possibly (obviously?) Zin is not running a business within the customary definition of the word? I mean Really! How obvious can it be that he doesn't pursue this venture for money? (Which I strongly doubt he needs?) Are not most actual businesses founded on ultimately exchanging something for cash. Since unless one uses Paypal, Zin receives zero income until he sends you an amp. This makes it glaringly apparent the cash flow aspect of his 'business' is at the bottom of Zin's totem pole. Is it not logical to then assume that Zin does what he does because it satisfies him in a way peculiar to Zin?

Regardless whether Xin makes any dime out of this exercise or not, or whether he treats this exercise as a business or not, there is some inherent and basic business moral and ethic ones has to ahere to in running a business. Even if Xin does not take a dime from customers that placed order with him (which we know is not true for those who pay with Paypal), he has no right to toil with customers emotion to the extend manifested in these threads. Given what have been described in these threads (relentlessly and uncessantly working and reworking on a model or design and obvious avoidant behaviors via his inability to response to customers inquiries), Xin has definitely manifested enough tendency of OCD (Obessive compulsive disorder)-a disorder of fear and anxiety that render a person utterly unproductive.
If it is indeed the case, this thread could go on for another two years until Xin someone put some anafranil in his coffee. Have fun waiting.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jalo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Regardless whether Xin makes any dime out of this exercise or not, or whether he treats this exercise as a business or not, there is some inherent and basic business moral and ethic ones has to ahere to in running a business. Even if Xin does not take a dime from customers that placed order with him (which we know is not true for those who pay with Paypal), he has no right to toil with customers emotion to the extend manifested in these threads. Given what have been described in these threads (relentlessly and uncessantly working and reworking on a model or design and obvious avoidant behaviors via his inability to response to customers inquiries), Xin has definitely manifested enough tendency of OCD (Obessive compulsive disorder)-a disorder of fear and anxiety that render a person utterly unproductive. If it is indeed the case, this thread could go on for another two years until Xin someone put some anafranil in his coffee. Have fun waiting.

Yeah, OCD makes sense, as he doesn't strike me as a savant with Asperger Syndrome...

 

[vvs_75]

I understand all frustrations since I am in the same boat, BUT….

He is making them look like alone and it’s very slow. He has lots off orders and he is fullfilling them when he has time for it.

As for not for responding to emails. Would you be very happy if he responds on all your emails like:

"Your order is in progress. Expecting delivery date 9 to 12 month. Please be patient!”

So forget about the amp and enjoy your music! The Day will come eventually.

 

[musicmaker]

He knows his workload and expected delivery timeframe on your order. A response acknowledging a customer's email with an ETA is a good starting point.

Ignoring emails, I'm sorry is just pathetic !



Quote:

Originally Posted by vvs_75 /img/forum/go_quote.gif As for not for responding to emails. Would you be very happy if he responds on all your emails like: "Your order is in progress. Expecting delivery date 9 to 12 month. Please be patient!” So forget about the amp and enjoy your music! The Day will come eventually.

 

[tnmike1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vvs_75 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I understand all frustrations since I am in the same boat, BUT…. He is making them look like alone and it’s very slow. He has lots off orders and he is fullfilling them when he has time for it. As for not for responding to emails. Would you be very happy if he responds on all your emails like: "Your order is in progress. Expecting delivery date 9 to 12 month. Please be patient!” So forget about the amp and enjoy your music! The Day will come eventually.

How do you KNOW he has "lots of orders"? With absolutely no communication maybe he has 50--maybe he has 500. Who knows??? Also, how large is this community and what percentage of it is ordering his particular amplifier selections??

Betcha ray samuels has lots more orders to fill. Maybe Jan Meier, altho don't know his products.

Would agree with everyone who says at least a one line email would keep everyone happy

 

[Jalo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vvs_75 /img/forum/go_quote.gif As for not for responding to emails. Would you be very happy if he responds on all your emails like: "Your order is in progress. Expecting delivery date 9 to 12 month. Please be patient!”

I think you miss the entire point. The point is not whether ones will be happy with the above response. The point remains that Xin has an obligation to his customers. If you are being pursue by a police, it is your obligation to stop driving. Whether you have a valid excuse to keep driving or not is besides the point. Or if you go to a restaurant and order some dishes, it is the restaurant's obligation to serve you at a timely manner. To keep you waiting for hours without giving you an explanation is a vialation of normal accepted business practice. And if the restaurant gives you an excuss the they only have one chef etc, that doesn't make it right to keep the customer waiting for hours. This is especially true when Xin continues to keep his website open for ordering. For example, TriadAudio stops taking orders for the Lisa III when they run out of inventories and you won't hear any complaints about their practice. Xin should at least let his customers knows at the time of ordering that it will be a year before order is ship etc.

And if he does let his customers know "Your order is in progress. Expecting delivery date 9 to 12 month. Please be patient!” Then it becomes the term of his sales and we have no qualms about his practice. It is very much like ordering a new car that won't be out for 6-9 months, but the wait is fine because it is expected. The issue here is not the wait, it is his business practice. Unless you do not take customers orders, and sometimes money, but once you took the order and/or money, then you incur an obligation to your customers. It isn't that hard to understand, or is it?

 

[fl00r]

Over 2400 posts about a product people don't even own

Xin still exercises many minds!

Good luck to you all.

 

[sfflyfish]

Today brings us the insistence that Xin must play by "inherent and basic business moral and ethic" rules regarding the way he operates? Then follows the proposal that because he doesn't it must be the manifestation of a psychological disorder? Now that's hilarious.

Ouch! My right elbow hurts? Could I get an diagnosis via this thread as to what might be causing this discomfort?

If one stops trying to attach a conventional 'business' label on what Xin does any frustration caused by the experienced waiting times simply goes away.

If you can; simply wrap your head around the FACT that Xin is NOT running a 'business.' But rather he is doing what makes him happy in his own way, then generously, albeit slowly sharing his developments with those who might be interested.

I'll say one thing for the good Dr. Xin. he has certainly b*tch slapped the egocentric concept of "I want it NOW cause it's all about me."

At this stage of waiting (9 Mos.) I'm weirdly fascinated by his consistent and persistent silence. It says a multiple of things to me:
"Shut up and be patient."
"You'll get your amp when it's ready."
"Get over it or get used to it."

While one is waiting for something for Xin, time still goes on. It would be better to find some other way to pass that time. The endless rants regarding whether or not Xin operates within the boundaries of 'normal' or 'conventional' were long ago proven to be pointless because absolutely nothing has so far, or likely will ever, change.

Adoption of that mind set would snatch this thread back to it's original subject in moments, not years.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Jalo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Regardless whether Xin makes any dime out of this exercise or not, or whether he treats this exercise as a business or not, there is some inherent and basic business moral and ethic ones has to ahere to in running a business. Even if Xin does not take a dime from customers that placed order with him (which we know is not true for those who pay with Paypal), he has no right to toil with customers emotion to the extend manifested in these threads. Given what have been described in these threads (relentlessly and uncessantly working and reworking on a model or design and obvious avoidant behaviors via his inability to response to customers inquiries), Xin has definitely manifested enough tendency of OCD (Obessive compulsive disorder)-a disorder of fear and anxiety that render a person utterly unproductive. If it is indeed the case, this thread could go on for another two years until Xin someone put some anafranil in his coffee. Have fun waiting.

 

[sfflyfish]

"The point remains that Xin has an obligation to his customers."
I'm afraid it is you who has missed the point. You continue to argue from the point of view that Zin is running a business. Obviously he is NOT. Thus, if he has no business he has no customers. He only has those who are interested in acquiring one of his amps.

"If you are being pursue by a police, it is your obligation to stop driving. Whether you have a valid excuse to keep driving or not is besides the point."
What the ****** does this have to do with anything going on here? The cops have authority (and guns too). Xin's just a guy making amps? Apples to Oranges.

Or if you go to a restaurant and order some dishes, it is the restaurant's obligation to serve you at a timely manner. To keep you waiting for hours without giving you an explanation is a vialation of normal accepted business practice.
Clearly you have never had the opportunity to dine in a restaurant in rural Mexico. I've waited for quite some time without any notification that the chef had to go out to buy what he needed to prepare my order. It's just the way things are sometimes and one soon learns to get to a chosen restaurant long before they are REALLY hungry.

This is especially true when Xin continues to keep his website open for ordering.
The issue here is not the wait, it is his business practice. Unless you do not take customers orders, and sometimes money, but once you took the order and/or money, then you incur an obligation to your customers. It isn't that hard to understand, or is it?

If you stop the misguided labeling of Xin's occupation as a 'business', what he does in pursuing this occupation as a 'business practice' and those of us who would like to own one of his amps as 'customers' it is EASY to understand. It's not a business, period. It's an occupation of his time, the results of which he will share with others in a fashion satisfactory to only Xin, No more. No less. Thus, Xin gets to make the rules and we can choose to play by them or not.

Further, I doubt many who have ordered an amp from Xin didn't know that Xin is/was a bit eccentric or there could be a wait of indeterminable length. it's not like they are on a shelf at Wal-Mart. You have to do some research to first discover the man and his amps even exist. Most of us ordering them already knew what was up. (Or soon learn!) It seems (to me anyway) it's the "It's ALL about ME and I want my stuff NOW!" crowd that doth protest too much.

As far as Paypal goes It is not Xin's fault they immediately snatch your cash. That gripe has to be taken up with Paypal. Could it be Xin offers the option because there are still folks who are unwilling or unable to supply a credit card number which forestalls paying until he has their amp is ready to ship?

BTW, this is all in good fun as I slowly wend my way to the magic 50 posts so I can unload stuff in the For Sale forums?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jalo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think you miss the entire point. The point is not whether ones will be happy with the above response. The point remains that Xin has an obligation to his customers. If you are being pursue by a police, it is your obligation to stop driving. Whether you have a valid excuse to keep driving or not is besides the point. Or if you go to a restaurant and order some dishes, it is the restaurant's obligation to serve you at a timely manner. To keep you waiting for hours without giving you an explanation is a vialation of normal accepted business practice. And if the restaurant gives you an excuss the they only have one chef etc, that doesn't make it right to keep the customer waiting for hours. This is especially true when Xin continues to keep his website open for ordering. For example, TriadAudio stops taking orders for the Lisa III when they run out of inventories and you won't hear any complaints about their practice. Xin should at least let his customers knows at the time of ordering that it will be a year before order is ship etc. And if he does let his customers know "Your order is in progress. Expecting delivery date 9 to 12 month. Please be patient!” Then it becomes the term of his sales and we have no qualms about his practice. It is very much like ordering a new car that won't be out for 6-9 months, but the wait is fine because it is expected. The issue here is not the wait, it is his business practice. Unless you do not take customers orders, and sometimes money, but once you took the order and/or money, then you incur an obligation to your customers. It isn't that hard to understand, or is it?

 

[jamato8]

What am I missing here. Is it Xin or Zin or should it be Zen? Xin spells his name Xin but again if a Z is to be used it would seem more appropriate to move the whole idea of name and meaning, related to this long thread, to Zen as in the practice that waiting could be attributed to.

 

[Jaw007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamato8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What am I missing here. Is it Xin or Zin or should it be Zen? Xin spells his name Xin but again if a Z is to be used it would seem more appropriate to move the whole idea of name and meaning, related to this long thread, to Zen as in the practice that waiting could be attributed to.

What you are missing is probably a topigraphical error.
The Z is right next to the Z on your keyboard.It is easy to accidently hit the wrong key.

 

[jamato8]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaw007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What you are missing is probably a topigraphical error. The Z is right next to the Z on your keyboard.It is easy to accidently hit the wrong key.

If that were the case then I would think part of the time the X would show up. No, I think something else is at play here. . . . . can we say . . . Freud as in Freudian slip as in discipline of mind as in ,. . . . oh I don't know . l. ... . ZEN! You see, pretty soon since the I is on the opposite side of E the E will start to show up as a typo? I don't think so. . . ZEN!