[AmericanSpirit]

Some ppl like me when on hiatus for 7 years. There were no "likes" back then. Doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's talking about.

I agree that it doesn't compare favorably against much more expensive stuff like my Mest mk2 in terms of imaging, but I was also shocked to hear how good the Monarchs are. IEMs weren't this good 10 years ago especially at $700. All the IEMs I heard would start sounding congested and distort. The Monarchs totally blew me away by how clean they sounded, although having not heard a recent IEM. It even has better bass impact than the Mest mk2. Maybe the bass is not as textured, but you really need the pounding impact to nod your head to music, otherwise you're just analyzing music.

But yea it is kind of hyped. I agree with Antdroid's grade for the Monarchs vs Crinacle's. It's probably an A-range iem and the Mest mk2 would be an S range. Still really excellent for the price and got me curious about other TOTL iems.



How are EEs? Do you have the Odins? The frequency response for the Empire Ears stuff look like they have really shouty upper mids and treble... I thought the Monarchs had too much upper mids and treble.

There are two types of listeners, eastern profile and western profile, former one prefers Monarch and later one prefers Clairvoyance, main factor is 200hz dominance, which one group refer as “bleed” and other group “warmth/liveliness”.

This is related to “too bright” vs “dark/mushy” as well, mainly due to 2-4khz pinna gain spot, and 6khz concha gain sensitivity.

It has cultural background cultivation, as Eastern music cultures has deep roots with human choirs, meanwhile Western music roots are more of instrumentals based. I also can refer Eastern Profile listeners are more micro-based vs Macro-based western profile listeners.

This would be rooted by habitat for farming cultural (wood/grass), and hunting culture (stone/cave) as well, the solid surface will echo bass more than soft surface.

Monarch’s take is bring eastern profile’s favorite to its maximum which does not necessarily reflect perfect performance to western profile, of which Clairvoyance serves better, so does UM MEST MKII( UM run AI algorithm research on frequency occurrence on some western based major streaming services rankings for MKII).

I have both profile roots but more in favor of Western one, so for me Monarch was not really a spot hitter, but I asmit it seconds to none for many Asian/Japanese songs.

From their extensive review lists, I can see Crinacle is good example of Eastern Profile, and Antdroid and HBBis good example of Western Profile.
e.g. ) EE odin (Crin:A/Ant:S), Monarch(Crin:S, Ant:A), Clair(Crin:A, Ant:S), MEST2(Crin:A, Ant:S), only exception is U12t as they both rank S(maybe that’s European Profile within Western(American/European))

And yes I know the like system, I joined head-fi back in 2008 and got tired of shure/westone/akg/Sennheiser/UE keep releasing expensive sets which many of them did not met my expectations, like Sennheiser’s world first non-bluetooth, KLEER tech TWS, costed me 500 euro and sounded a total disaster simply due to immature product development.

This is a place of discussion, not one sided verdict shootout, so I’d refrain from verdicting one IEM, as “too hyped, just a junk” simply because it did not fit with ones personal profile. A better way would be “It wasn’t my taste, because of A,B&C.”

Furthermore, I had to defend Moondrop, as someone mentioned them as mediocre. Try Moondrop’s high-end brand, Softears RS10 and RSV, a german reviewer with plenty of experience and gadgets including U12t gave a very positive feedback to those two pair. Then I got RSV myself, and admit it sounds better than both Monarch and UM’s latest toy MEST MKII, in terms of phase consistency. Crinacle also referred RSV as S-tier tonality, it seems the technicalities didn’t fit his personal measurements though.

Lastly, I’d not show a disrespectful behavior especially when”driving a Lamborghini to the Mecedes AMG stans” leaving comment “hey AMG sucks!”. It will not be an opinion anymore. Opinion stands upon mutual respects.

 

[wind016]

There are two types of listeners, eastern profile and western profile, former one prefers Monarch and later one prefers Clairvoyance, main factor is 200hz dominance, which one group refer as “bleed” and other group “warmth/liveliness”.
It has cultural background cultivation, as Eastern music cultures has deep roots with human choirs, meanwhile Western music roots are more of instrumentals based. I also can refer Eastern Profile listeners are more micro-based vs Macro-based western profile listeners.

Monarch’s take is bring eastern profile’s favorite to its maximum which does not necessarily reflect perfect performance to western profile, of which Clairvoyance serves better, so does UM MEST MKII( UM run AI algorithm research on frequency occurrence on some western based major streaming services rankings for MKII).

I have both profile roots but more in favor of Western one, so for me Monarch was not really a spot hitter, but I asmit it seconds to none for many Asian/Japanese songs.

From their extensive review lists, I can see Crinacle is good example of Eastern Profile, and Antdroid is good example of Western Profile.

And yes I know the like system, I joined head-fi back in 2008 and got tired of shure/westone/akg/Sennheiser/UE keep releasing expensive sets which many of them did not met my expectations, like Sennheiser’s world first non-bluetooth, KLEER tech TWS, costed me 500 euro and sounded a total disaster simply due to immature product development.

This is a place of discussion, not one sided verdict shootout, so I’d refrain from verdicting one IEM, as “too hyped, just a junk” simply because it did not fit with ones personal profile. A better way would be “It wasn’t my taste, because of A,B&C.”

Gotcha. Yea, I have the Audio Technica W3000ANV which I still love. Very "eastern" or Japanese. It sounds beautiful with vocals and "asian" music.

As for Crinacle and Antdroid, I'm still not sure about Crinacle's music preferences, but you're most likely right about eastern profile. I think he is from Singapore afterall, but I did hear him criticize Japanese tuning in the Audio Discourse podcast. Antdroid listens to more jazz and classical stuff so he's not as much of a basshead as I am, haha. I'm not gonna lie. I listen a lot of pop and Taeyeon-type stuff.

You are so right about the IEMS from back in the day. In fact, I bet the recent KZs might even beat those iems. They ALL let me down so bad so I settled with Audio Technica woodies. The woodies just sound very intimate and pretty with vocals, but I'm not sure what to do with them right now. The Mests mk2s are just SOOOO technically superior to these TOTL woodies from almost a decade ago but its also not far behind in intimacy with vocals. I don't know whether to sell the woodies. They are beautiful, limited, and sound pretty good with less congested music.

Oh yea, in terms of like-post ratio, I would probably look like a total retard lol

Oh, you too have the Nio.
What is your opinion of the Nio?
Are they really that bad technically? So little resolution do they have?

I already have 2 IEMs that I consider brilliant (Mest, Clairvoyance), and I am deciding what my next goal is going to be. I had thought about the IER-Z1R because everyone speaks highly of it, but perhaps the Nio is more complementary to the ones I already have, but I doubt its technical ability.

Yea, you are kind of in the same path as me. Monarch --> Mest mk2 --> Z1R --> ?

 

[firesign]

Yea, you are kind of in the same path as me. Monarch --> Mest mk2 --> Z1R --> ?

Well, it’s not exactly the same path. You have the Monarch, I have the Clairvoyance. You have the Mest MK2, I have the Mest OG...

what I wanted to know is if the Mest OG and the Z1R are quite similar, or can they be complementary.

 

[Polky74]

Sorry but, in my opinion, the IER are not complementary of any kind of other IEM. They have a sound profile warm but always resolving as no others. Many call this kind of sound Sony house sound, but i think it is more IER unique type of sound.
My two cents.

 

[Grev]

I really think he has golden ears because I have quite bad tinnitus, mainly on my right ear.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Gotcha. Yea, I have the Audio Technica W3000ANV which I still love. Very "eastern" or Japanese. It sounds beautiful with vocals and "asian" music.

As for Crinacle and Antdroid, I'm still not sure about Crinacle's music preferences, but you're most likely right about eastern profile. I think he is from Singapore afterall, but I did hear him criticize Japanese tuning in the Audio Discourse podcast. Antdroid listens to more jazz and classical stuff so he's not as much of a basshead as I am, haha. I'm not gonna lie. I listen a lot of pop and Taeyeon-type stuff.

You are so right about the IEMS from back in the day. In fact, I bet the recent KZs might even beat those iems. They ALL let me down so bad so I settled with Audio Technica woodies. The woodies just sound very intimate and pretty with vocals, but I'm not sure what to do with them right now. The Mests mk2s are just SOOOO technically superior to these TOTL woodies from almost a decade ago but its also not far behind in intimacy with vocals. I don't know whether to sell the woodies. They are beautiful, limited, and sound pretty good with less congested music.

Oh yea, in terms of like-post ratio, I would probably look like a total retard lol



Yea, you are kind of in the same path as me. Monarch --> Mest mk2 --> Z1R --> ?

I remember Autech, a Machida-based japanese professional audio equipment company, like Sennheiser. Many headfiers will be surprised if they know Audio Technica makes automatic sushi robots

I used to live in Japan and Machida was one of my fav place for arcades. Their woodie series surely was something Using specific sakura woods and alike. Actually I totally forgot, as autech still is one of best competitors among fullsize cans.

for me the shape of Z1R didn’t quite fit and I had Z1R’s old grandfather EXQ1, so I’d skip Sony, unless they release a more comfortable look one. I’d probably get U12t someday, aside from Moondrop’s S8 successor in rumor “M8”, as I come to conclusion the company good at making IEM with 3k peak that hit pinna gain simulates best HRTF for my case.

And yes Crinacle is eastern but not Japanese taste, within Eastern, I believe Japanese unique V-shape favor is not his ideal except for Z1R. I’d like to see Japanese taste based ranking with same quality like Crin/Ant’s in English someday.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Well, it’s not exactly the same path. You have the Monarch, I have the Clairvoyance. You have the Mest MK2, I have the Mest OG...

what I wanted to know is if the Mest OG and the Z1R are quite similar, or can they be complementary.

MEST OG and Z1R are complementary. They sound quite different from each other. I listen to my MEST OG when I want to hear large sound stage. I listen to my Z1R when I want to hear great bass. The timbre of the Z1R is much more natural sounding and the coherence of the bass and mids is unmatched to my ear.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Sorry but, in my opinion, the IER are not complementary of any kind of other IEM. They have a sound profile warm but always resolving as no others. Many call this kind of sound Sony house sound, but i think it is more IER unique type of sound.
My two cents.

Maybe you mean that Z1R is complementary to everything because it is so unique. In other words, any 2 IEMs will sound different to each other.

 

[Polky74]

Being complementary with everyone, for me, means not being complementary to anyone.
We are saying the same thing but in a different way.
To find a complementary iem with the Z1R one would have to look for an iem without full bass, clean highs, not coherent and with a questionable tune.
I challenge anyone to look for an iem like this ...

 

[sateric]

for me the shape of Z1R didn't quite fit

huh for me clairs/monarchs are bigger than z1r. Was your issue because of shallow ear canals so they wouldnt sit properly? just a bit curious

 

[AmericanSpirit]

huh for me clairs/monarchs are bigger than z1r. Was your issue because of shallow ear canals so they wouldnt sit properly? just a bit curious

It’s more of angles of the nozzle, the L shape angle didn’t choose my ear. I’m also cocerned about clairvoyance’s angle too, it’s more L shape than Monarch.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

There are two types of listeners, eastern profile and western profile, former one prefers Monarch and later one prefers Clairvoyance, main factor is 200hz dominance, which one group refer as “bleed” and other group “warmth/liveliness”.
It has cultural background cultivation, as Eastern music cultures has deep roots with human choirs, meanwhile Western music roots are more of instrumentals based. I also can refer Eastern Profile listeners are more micro-based vs Macro-based western profile listeners.

Monarch’s take is bring eastern profile’s favorite to its maximum which does not necessarily reflect perfect performance to western profile, of which Clairvoyance serves better, so does UM MEST MKII( UM run AI algorithm research on frequency occurrence on some western based major streaming services rankings for MKII).

I have both profile roots but more in favor of Western one, so for me Monarch was not really a spot hitter, but I asmit it seconds to none for many Asian/Japanese songs.

From their extensive review lists, I can see Crinacle is good example of Eastern Profile, and Antdroid is good example of Western Profile.
e.g. ) EE odin (Crin:A/Ant:S), Monarch(Crin:S, Ant:A), Clair(Crin:A, Ant:S), MEST2(Crin:?, Ant:S), only exception is U12t as they both rank S(maybe that’s European Profile within Western(American/European))

And yes I know the like system, I joined head-fi back in 2008 and got tired of shure/westone/akg/Sennheiser/UE keep releasing expensive sets which many of them did not met my expectations, like Sennheiser’s world first non-bluetooth, KLEER tech TWS, costed me 500 euro and sounded a total disaster simply due to immature product development.

This is a place of discussion, not one sided verdict shootout, so I’d refrain from verdicting one IEM, as “too hyped, just a junk” simply because it did not fit with ones personal profile. A better way would be “It wasn’t my taste, because of A,B&C.”

Furthermore, I had to defend Moondrop, as someone mentioned them as mediocre. Try Moondrop’s high-end brand, Softears RS10 and RSV, a german reviewer with plenty of experience and gadgets including U12t gave a very positive feedback to those two pair. Then I got RSV myself, and admit it sounds better than both Monarch and UM’s latest toy MEST MKII, in terms of phase consistency. Crinacle also referred RSV as S-tier tonality, it seems the technicalities didn’t fit his personal measurements though.

Lastly, I’d not show a disrespectful behavior especially when”driving a Lamborghini to the Mecedes AMG stans” leaving comment “hey AMG sucks!”. It will not be an opinion anymore. Opinion stands upon mutual respects.

I don't think that listening preferences are as binary as you are making them out to be. I believe there are distribution curves of preferences and the average preferences are probably different. But, a specific Western or Eastern person may prefer either tuning.

 

[sateric]

It’s more of angles of the nozzle, the L shape angle didn’t choose my ear. I’m also cocerned about clairvoyance’s angle too, it’s more L shape than Monarch.

Oh the more you know. Had no idea thought the twins were the same shape. Interesting. z1rs only fills half my ear canal whereas clairs give me a near ciem fit. z1r didnt cause any discomfort just the wire was always in the way and drooping down

 

[Polky74]

huh for me clairs/monarchs are bigger than z1r. Was your issue because of shallow ear canals so they wouldnt sit properly? just a bit curious

I don't know the clair ... (because they haven't arrived yet) but for sure the Monarchs are almost ciem for me, while the Z1R leave more air around my ears

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Oh the more you know. Had no idea thought the twins were the same shape. Interesting. z1rs only fills half my ear canal whereas clairs give me a near ciem fit. z1r didnt cause any discomfort just the wire was always in the way and drooping down

It’s just one round driver housing touching a spot, sadly very unfortunate Monarch angles is more like blessing2 type wider than 100 degree, whereas clairvoyance is more 90 degree. I believe Thieaudio even used Western ear molds samples to build Clairvoyance, same to Monarch while using Asian ear molds.
Back then I worked for Sony in entertainment business, but I was able to get employee discounts, but not anymore so that’s another psychological let down for keeping new sony toy.