[KONAKONA]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trav /img/forum/go_quote.gif I took the "blue" pill.....

Me too.

Did they say you would have to take the red one with a cup of piss as well? They gave me guinness for the blue one.

 

[heiste]

I think speakers are over-hyped. I have the aperion audio monitors and my hd650 and ie8 sound as good. But I do agree that a lot of people here tend to over blow things-especially when describing their audio bliss. Its very misleading and results in people spending unnecessary amount of cash in the end.

I wasn't too pleased with my first set of hd650's but they were decent. Then I sold them after reading about the "eargamic" sound of the denon d2000/d5000. Long story short, I got rid of the denons and eventually had to re-purchase the hd650.

Same with the yuins. The yuin pk2/pk3 are absolute CRAP!!!. I had both plus the OK2s and pk1s with ray samuels hornet. Guys were hyping the hornet and pk1 so much i had to try them but ultimately, my buddy's $20 buds sounded very close to them!! Talk about embarrassing... i couldn't defend my near $600 investment against a $20 bud.
Anyways, sold it fast and got the ie8. i can say that the ie8s are leagues ahead of any of those yuins with amp-even though slightly expensive.

People need to calm down when writing reviews. I now read only negative reviews due to this...its funny.

P.S.- stay away from the hornet amps. It just made music sound...louder?

 

[sfmatt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oggranak /img/forum/go_quote.gif He responded above the quotes. Look under what he said, he was responding to someone else.

So I was cited as an example of people with "plenty of knowledge and incredible gear around this forums"? No wonder I did not recognize myself in that either

That reminds me to mention to the OP a very important point about the gear: a decent pair of studio monitors will set you back over a grand (if not much more) and for the same price you can get:
- a portable amp
- a decent tube or SS desktop amp
- at least 2 top headphones (the best 2 among the 5-6 you have bought and resold)

 

[Donald North]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yumigator /img/forum/go_quote.gif Honestly, I think this bit is the reason why everyone's so worked up. To paraphrase: BHTX has extremely good hearing, and that is why he hates headphones; people who do not agree with him simply lack the skill required to pick out these flaws.

No, BHTX said in post #119: "I've had my hearing tested several times over recent years and score above average. Tinnitus doesn't always = hearing loss. However, continuous high frequencies do tend to make it worse, even at low levels. If anything, I probably have a slightly more difficult time identifying a headphone's problems at the very highest frequencies, because I sometimes find myself having to listen through the tinnitus when dealing with an area anywhere near it. This in itself isn't a big deal though. The annoyance of the tinnitus.. that's another story."

BHTX claims to have identified in the OP numerous peaks in the output of the HD600 which believes are intrinsic faults in all headphones, neverminding the facts that:
1. BHTX did not measure the headphones scientifically with a Head And Torso Simulator
2. Headphones should not have a flat frequency response to sound neutral

In the OP, BHTX could have posted his observations and asked why this is, but instead makes sweeping conclusions and condescending remarks, having all the answers. Not productive in my books.

 

[Oggranak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald North /img/forum/go_quote.gif In the OP, BHTX could have posted his observations and asked why this is, but instead makes sweeping conclusions and condescending remarks, having all the answers. Not productive in my books.

QFT

 

[moonboy403]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald North /img/forum/go_quote.gif Headphones should not have a flat frequency response to sound neutral

That's exactly what I said early on in the thread. I believe the OP brushed it off by saying something along the lines of since there isn't a universal standard of neutral FR graph like loudspeakers, headphones are a joke.

Here was the exact response: "Sure, subjective perceived neutrality at first listen to music can differ from actual frequency response. And yes, if a headphone could be measured as flat in a room, it wouldn't be flat at the ear. And this is the problem with headphones. What's flat? Apparently, no one knows, and if they do, they're not willing to tell anyone."

 

[Donald North]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonboy403 /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's exactly what I said early on in the thread. I believe the OP brushed it off by saying something along the lines of since there isn't a universal standard of neutral FR graph like loudspeakers, headphones are a joke.

The irony is: There is no universal standard for what the frequency response graph of loudspeakers should be either. With loudspeakers you have not only the on-axis anechoic frequency response but also the power response (cumulative average measured at all angles), directivity, and in-room response.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

This thread made me go put on my HD600 with APS V3 cable, plugged into my warmed up maxed Woo WA6 with upgraded Sophia Princess 274b rectifier, fed by my Apogee mini-DAC via ALO SXC interconnects, with the Apogee connected to my CD5001 via Synergistic Research active shielded coax digital cable - and the sound is pretty darn good, and impressively natural and transparent as well. And this is with listening to Diana Krall "Live in Paris" which is fairly well mastered (except some issues with congestion in the first minute or two). I do think system synergy is important with HD600, and with the wrong source and amp it can sound Dull, boring and colored.

Phew! I escaped unscathed this time, despite fairly severe tinnitus in my right ear and no hearing loss beyond what is expected for 47 years of age (fortunately both ears still hear 16-16Khz with no problem).

 

[GreatDane]

My wife thinks that when I die my HD 650 will end up in the coffin.

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatDane /img/forum/go_quote.gif My wife thinks that when I die my HD 650 will end up in the coffin.

On your head, I hope.

You could even hook it up to an SLA-powered amp and source, and just fill the coffin with daisy-chained batteries, so that your spirit will have good tunes in the afterlife... for the first year or so, anyway.

 

[ADD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHTX /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've also realized that there's no such thing as a headphone that's anywhere near accurate.

I agree with you, and I also agree that you are making the right decision to give up. When I came to the same conclusion you did last year, I also gave up, but decided to use the best headphone I had found up to that point. I enjoy what I have, but would turf it all immedately if I had the money and space for a good quality 2 channel speaker setup.

The only thing I would say is don't bother with IEMs. They are far worse again in my experience. Just find a good pair of speakers. Something like the Tannoy range might be a good place to start. Headphones just aren't worth the angst if there is any possibility at all of using speakers imho.

It's all artificial nonense in any case - force feeding our ears with sound. Our ears and brains are designed to pick up sound from our surrounding environment - not sound being force-inducted directly into our ears. It's no wonder you hate headphones so much. The only surprising thing to me is that so many people actually like them.

 

[BHTX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonboy403 /img/forum/go_quote.gif In the OP, BHTX could have posted his observations and asked why this is, but instead makes sweeping conclusions and condescending remarks, having all the answers. Not productive in my books.

If I would have done that, the majority of responses would have been "sweeping conclusions and condescending remarks, having all the answers". Most of the comments would have been along the lines of "that's not what I'm hearing!", "HD600's are awesome.. you're nuts", "You need more expensive equipment", "Buy high priced cables", "Get x headphones, you'll like them", "There's something wrong with you / your ears", "You're just too picky", etc.. none of which is true. Of course, all these kinds of replies were still posted here (aside from all the rest of the ridiculous and pointless nonsense and personal attacks from those who've chosen to focus solely on my "sweeping conclusions and condescending remarks, having all the answers"). So, it's like damned if you do, damned if you don't. "Not productive in my books".. that wouldn't have been the case if the majority of people around here were much more "productive" with their posts. There are very few who are. And that's my main complaint about this forum. So, why did I come here?.. because I didn't know where else to go at the time. I wanted to appreciate these headphones, as well as understand more about their inherent problems, and I was hoping to come across people who actually understood these things (and there are quite a few) and have some discussion about it. Do I think this was a mistake? Yes and no. Did I get what I was expecting from this? Yes and no. Was it helpful? Yes and no. I can say that I have learned a bit more about these issues during the course of this thread.

Also, why do so many people here seem to rely on such a strong belief that a high price = better performance?

Several have commented that the inherent problems with headphones are the result of using a single driver, but I don't see how this has anything to do with it. Also, single driver loudspeaker systems certainly have their place (altho those places can be somewhat limited), and can offer great advantages over multi-driver designs. It could even be said that anything more than a single driver is only a compromise (mainly in exchange for greater SPL and "better" dispersion characteristics), and often a huge sacrifice (many people obviously hold stong beliefs to this). Personally, I'd be a lot more disappointed than I aleady am if all headphones contained more than a single driver. Aside from issues with intermodulation distortion, I really see no reason for more than a single driver in headphones. The disadvantages would far outweigh anything good that would come from it imo. As with everything (especially audio), any design choice is a compromise. Also, let's not forget that speaker systems using these convential dynamic loudspeaker drivers began with a single driver in an open back cabinet..

 

[CDBacklash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADD /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with you, and I also agree that you are making the right decision to give up. When I came to the same conclusion you did last year, I also gave up, but decided to use the best headphone I had found up to that point. I enjoy what I have, but would turf it all immedately if I had the money and space for a good quality 2 channel speaker setup./snip It's all artificial nonense in any case - force feeding our ears with sound.

O Contrare, headphones are sending you a more accurate representation of what has actually been recorded than the speakers which give you a more realistic interpretation.
It's the recording that is unrealistic, not the headphone. Recording of most music wasnt designed for headphones and has too strong a left/right bias to be considered natural for a headphone application. Although, I do actually like the unnatural sound and find it lends itself to some music pretty well.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by heiste /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think speakers are over-hyped. I have the aperion audio monitors and my hd650 and ie8 sound as good. But I do agree that a lot of people here tend to over blow things-especially when describing their audio bliss. Its very misleading and results in people spending unnecessary amount of cash in the end.

Not to derail the thread, but how many speaker systems have you heard besides your Aperion Audio monitors? The speakers I have completely overwhelm the HD-650, especially in terms of soundstage and bass extension. They're not even in the same league.

 

[BHTX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDBacklash /img/forum/go_quote.gif Recording of most music wasnt designed for headphones.

I completely agree. And I also think he understands this. He just didn't state it directly.


ADD: I appreciate your post as well. It's great to know I'm not the only person with these feelings and experiences around here. As for Tannoys, dual concentrics definitely have their advantages. Of course, they also create many new problems of their own, difficult/impossible to overcome. It's all sacrifices. As with many of them, they do have merit. Thanks for your post.