The Zishan dsd's corner

[Merlin-PT]

I mean it 100% as a compliment (the comments), I admire your circuit design and ideas, from here do I close the box or keep modding... I'm not closing the box, because I like modding as much as listening to music. For me what you did is the next logic step.

Yes, that's a good idea, that could be made reversible, but there's a bit more than just the resistors near the socket connected to the buffer, the caps near the socket are also connected. My thinking was, if a new buffer is better we won't need the old one, but it's always reversible with more or less work.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[calico88]

Does replacing output caps with non polarity will improve the SQ?

 

[Merlin-PT]

AFAIK, not because of the polarity, only if they are better or sound better to you, than the previous ones installed.

 

[calico88]

I ask the wrong question, what ‘s the different if i use non polar or polar caps for output zishan ?
Assume the caps are the same brand/specs etc.

The same sq ?

 

[Merlin-PT]

What I've read is:
The polarity of a polarized cap needs to be respected or it will be damaged (or even blows) and doesn't work.
So you can replace a polarized cap with a non polar one, because the new one doesn't have polarity, but you need to respect the voltage rating and other specs.
But you can only replace a non polarized cap, with a polarized one, if you are sure the voltage in the circuit doesn't change polarity, because if it changes polarity the polarized cap is damaged (or even blows) and doesn't work. If voltage polarity never changes, you can connect it with the correct polarity.

So in zishan you can replace any of the polar caps with non polar ones, you need to respect the voltage rating and other specs.

 

[calico88]

Thank you foe explanation.
Yes the voltage is important.
X’tal clear.

 

[ThanosD]

It finally arrived!
Both outputs tested, and working properly. Damn, didn't expect to notice much difference at first, but even after 20 minutes, I can definitely hear the difference from my LG V20. I noticed something else though too. The "(Anesthesia) Pulling teeth" by Metallica, which is basically a bass solo, but heavily distorted, sounded a bit off, and, at some points, not very defined, compared to the V20 at least.
After some time, I decided to open the player, and change the LM op amp, with the original one I got from Arrow.
The arrow is the lower one. I saw the pre-installed, and thought that they are now putting original chips. Then I put in the original. Well.... Damn. It actually made a difference. Gone are the problems I was hearing. Didn't expect that obvious of an improvement.

I am now waiting the OPA1622, to proceed with Ivan's mod.

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

There are safer measures one can take in experimentation/Attempts and even learn about basic Electronic “off Zishan” they are electric circuit design and simulators software.

It’s also important to note that software can often optimize components in ways that you can’t get from just rewiring the circuit as in a textbook.

Why? Because it’s not a “fixed” physical state. This is how some manufacturers can cut their overhead with stable specs and optimize components especially when the part has been out for a while.

I would imagine that there will be more players this year using the AK4497 especially when the Ak4499 is coming out soon!

 

[Merlin-PT]

Z3 with ak4493 is already for sale in Aliexpress.
I think I eventually will buy one in some months.

@ThanosD
Also listen to the 2.5" output to see if you want to change the "opa275", those are connected to the socket opamp.
I like AD8066 there, one of Ivan's recommendations from several other opamps to try there.

When I tried opa1622 in the socket, before configured into buffer, I found the sound a tiny bit closed compared to some brighter opamps that fit better my personal preference. Still it sounded good and controlled.
Now, I will try it in buffer configuration, but I also want to try other opamps configured as buffer.
I think I'll temporary configure a dip8 socket as buffer, solder it with wires to the PCB and search what opamps I can try there as buffer.

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

Spoiler: Ernest’s Musings: The Zishan Sound Dillemma

So I have been playin’ with Opa Amps with Browndogs adapters from the Opa627 to AD797 in my Zishan.


So here's my hard-to-please dilemma when I put the AD797 its almost near perfect and as so far THE best overall op amp I have tried! The Opa627 just sounds better!


So why does it ”sound” better? In my opinion its less polished so it sounds more ”analog” based on my memoria. I’ll explain when I was a kid, my grandparents had a old record player/“furniture” unit and as kid of the 80s growing up in NYC. I pretended to be a DJ/Rapper and “spin” records with no power. I was fascinated by the “sound” it produced and love the analog “sound.”


What I have come to realize is vinyl is one of the most distorted mediums and when I hear in the Zishan the harsh mids and high frequencies they both remind me of that sound as a kid and also leaves me “unsatisfied” with my Zishan Sound.


But then when I listen to a track that doesn’t have this problem and sounds perfect; I’m dissatisfied and yearn back to the “analog” sound of my youth.

[\Spoiler]

 

[ThanosD]

Z3 with ak4493 is already for sale in Aliexpress.
I think I eventually will buy one in some months.

@ThanosD
Also listen to the 2.5" output to see if you want to change the "opa275", those are connected to the socket opamp.
I like AD8066 there, one of Ivan's recommendations from several other opamps to try there.

When I tried opa1622 in the socket, before configured into buffer, I found the sound a tiny bit closed compared to some brighter opamps that fit better my personal preference. Still it sounded good and controlled.
Now, I will try it in buffer configuration, but I also want to try other opamps configured as buffer.
I think I'll temporary configure a dip8 socket as buffer, solder it with wires to the PCB and search what opamps I can try there as buffer.

I will not change the OPA275 for now, as they require either hot air, or a fine soldering tip, and I have neither of those right now. In the future, I will surely change them. About the buffer, yeah, probably a DIP-8 socket is the best solution for quickly changing opamps. I am worried a bit about the signature of the 1622 though, as the caps I got for output, also were described as "warm" sounding. Probably not gonna use them at all. Thanks for the info!

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

Putting in a Opa1622 as your buffer in the Zishan is not a good idea; It’s a great idea.


From other forums I have read it’s benchmark scores are sick and a choice by many for headphone amps.

So if your severely damaged the Zishan DAC but it plays no biggie, protect the Ak4497 with copper foil and begin making a replacement clone DAC to transplant the chip to.


Also, if you happen to have a F.Audio with Ak4497 chip (and an annoying hiss) you could probably use the Ak4497 chip and have one per channel and house the Zishan clone with fully balanced stereo in the it’s casing do a little at time per weekend.


It would also be sweet if you can also put an AK4118 chip as bonus in the DAC. https://www.akm.com/akm/en/file/datasheet/AK4118AEQ.pdf

Spoiler: Ernest’s Zishan Mod Changelog

a. Break a part.

b. use uninsulated and non authorized jewelry wire.

c. Successfully upgrade the Zishan but burn down the house in the process.

d. All of the above

Spoiler: Zishan Mod with Opa Amp Rolling in the LPF

Ordered these adapters and awaiting my second Zishan to do this mod. I like the idea of having differentials in my amps or as changing my Zishan Sound at times with other amps.




I may have to make a compromise in Capacitors with ceramic instead of aluminum caps so everything can fit. I’ll also need brown dog sized adapter if I choose to use singles into dual amp adapters.

I would it I can re-circuitry the the op amp to the TRRS output to have more of variety in stereo.

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

I will not change the OPA275 for now, as they require either hot air, or a fine soldering tip, and I have neither of those right now. In the future, I will surely change them. About the buffer, yeah, probably a DIP-8 socket is the best solution for quickly changing opamps. I am worried a bit about the signature of the 1622 though, as the caps I got for output, also were described as "warm" sounding. Probably not gonna use them at all. Thanks for the info!

The 1622 drop in the lpf is a sick mod though.

You should reconsider... folks on the thread can walk you through it step-by-step with the correct tips, and process. Just take lots of pics and imagine all the steps first!

Dude- I was successfully able to chang the OPA275s. Translation: even a trained monkey can do it.

 

[Merlin-PT]

I will not change the OPA275 for now, as they require either hot air, or a fine soldering tip, and I have neither of those right now. In the future, I will surely change them. About the buffer, yeah, probably a DIP-8 socket is the best solution for quickly changing opamps. I am worried a bit about the signature of the 1622 though, as the caps I got for output, also were described as "warm" sounding. Probably not gonna use them at all. Thanks for the info!

I'll be interested in your impressions when you get them.
My personal preference is bright sound, but If it's good, I also enjoy warm sound, so I don't see a problem, it also dependent on the headphones.
What caps did you bought?

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

Reposting because of pic problem (lack there of) with EBay link.

Spoiler: Zishan Mod with Opa Amp Rolling in the LPF

Ordered these adapters and awaiting my second Zishan to do this mod. I like the idea of having differentials in my amps or as changing my Zishan Sound at times with other amps.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/153384069762

I may have to make a compromise in Capacitors with ceramic instead of aluminum caps so everything can fit. I’ll also need brown dog sized adapter if I choose to use singles into dual amp adapters.


I would it I can re-circuitry the the op amp to the TRRS output to have more of variety in stereo.