[DBaldock9]

So if I understood correctly replacing the opamps with the same opamps but from a reliable store improved a lot the sound quality, right? (This means, I suppose, that the ones in the zishan are fake)
Did you hear improvements by replacing caps too?
And most important, I'd like to lower the output impedance, there are 22ohm resistors before the output to protect the amp from short circuit, so I don't think that It could be a good idea at all removing them, but if I replace them with some smd resistors with ... Let's Say... Half of the actual output impedance they should protect the opamp (and there will be an original one, not a fake chinese one) and in the same time they should cause less problems with hybrid or multi BA iems. Is it right o Is it a really bad idea?

You should be able to use lower value (10Ω) series resistors, without damaging the op-amps.
If you're mainly using the Single-Ended output, then that op-amp is socketed, and can be replaced fairly easily if something happens to it.
The two OP275 op-amps, that drive the Balanced output, are soldered on, so they'd take a bit more work to replace if something happens to them.

 

[Merlin-PT]

So if I understood correctly replacing the opamps with the same opamps but from a reliable store improved a lot the sound quality, right? (This means, I suppose, that the ones in the zishan are fake)
Did you hear improvements by replacing caps too?

They could be, I can't say for sure, but that doesn't mean the stock sound is bad, in fact I also liked the stock sound.

The sound changed from warm, musical, a bit veiled, but balanced with stock opamps and caps, to bright, more detailed, clear, but less balanced, because it's now a bit too bright and needs a bit more body. I changed the nichicon caps and the opamps at the same time.

I think stock sound is good, but I want a brighter more detailed sound, also I bought this player for modding, so this is the direction for me to go.

Also one of my stock caps is different from the others and according to the nichicon datasheet, that model isn't gold color.

 

[abartels]

If you modify electronics, be aware that sound changes during burn-in process of components.

If you wait another 150 hours of playtime, the device probably sounds again like stock.

The way you compare opamps, isn't the way to go, they should all have at least 150 hours of playtime before comparing.

 

[Themilkman46290]

If you modify electronics, be aware that sound changes during burn-in process of components.

If you wait another 150 hours of playtime, the device probably sounds again like stock.

The way you compare opamps, isn't the way to go, they should all have at least 150 hours of playtime before comparing.

I can understand the capacitors changing a slight bit(depending on type), I can understand how dynamic drivers may need burn in(they move) but I still don't get how i.c. gets burned in, there not mechanical, the don't move, and as far as I have understood they can only degrade. How do they burn in? What burns in? Other than some pins if it ocillates.

 

[abartels]

I can understand the capacitors changing a slight bit(depending on type), I can understand how dynamic drivers may need burn in(they move) but I still don't get how i.c. gets burned in, there not mechanical, the don't move, and as far as I have understood they can only degrade. How do they burn in? What burns in? Other than some pins if it ocillates.

It is not in my intention to start another topic on this, and I can't explain why it is, but EVERY electric component needs time to settle in. Even simple wire and solder.
I created and modified a lot of electronic devices the last 30 to 40 years, and I came to the conclusion that ALL parts in signal, AND in digital path, needs settle in time.

If you don't believe it, try two new opamps from the same batch, let one play for 150 hours, and then compare it with the unused one. You definitely will hear a difference.

Components and wire etc. even do have a very strange behavior during settle-in / burn-in, sound changes in stages, at first it sounds rather good but sharp and fatiguing ,
but after some hours of playtime sound gets even worse! After that it improves and keeps improving. After 5 to 6 days soundstage opens up and all gets more mellow.

Try it before gunning me down on this.

 

[Themilkman46290]

It is not in my intention to start another topic on this, and I can't explain why it is, but EVERY electric component needs time to settle in. Even simple wire and solder.
I created and modified a lot of electronic devices the last 30 to 40 years, and I came to the conclusion that ALL parts in signal, AND in digital path, needs settle in time.

If you don't believe it, try two new opamps from the same batch, let one play for 150 hours, and then compare it with the unused one. You definitely will hear a difference.

Components and wire etc. even do have a very strange behavior during settle-in / burn-in, sound changes in stages, at first it sounds rather good but sharp and fatiguing ,
but after some hours of playtime sound gets even worse! After that it improves and keeps improving. After 5 to 6 days soundstage opens up and all gets more mellow.

Try it before gunning me down on this.

I wasnt trying to "gun you down" I just figured you had enough experience and knowledge to explain
I have tried, honestly I only noticed the difference in dynamic drivers, tubes, and stuff like that but I have a old lm6172 and a new one I got from the same source, couldn't hear any difference, I used 2 zishan dsd's and a heaphone switcher, but I didn't feel a difference. I can imagine some things needing burn in, but I can't understand i.c. needing it, I think some of that maybe brain burn in. I was hoping you could explain how burn in affects an i.c. other then degrading the materials from heat, but that just makes things worst and they shouldn't get that hot, wires don't burn in, they corrode or oxidize and tarnish, this may effect some wires, specially if it's sliver plated, this Idea i can grasp

 

[cobrabucket]

Hey guys. I am considering getting a Zishan DSD, but I know very little about electronics and would prob not be modding it [for a while at least]. What do you recommend as far the best stock experience with the DSD? Thanks!

 

[Themilkman46290]

Hey guys. I am considering getting a Zishan DSD, but I know very little about electronics and would prob not be modding it [for a while at least]. What do you recommend as far the best stock experience with the DSD? Thanks!

Well I currently have the ak4490 version and tje ak4497 version, i can say it plays well with most hybrid iems, and it might play well with some b.a. iems, if you use head gear that's less then 50 ohms then that's your best bet, there is also the ak4495 version, I read it has better synergy with lower impedance phones but it's still a high impedance player, and if you prefer a 2.5 mm balanced over a line out, or you want the latest dac then there is the ak4497 version and it is also high impedance and not very good with hybrid iems, terrible with b.a. iems and changes the sound of everything unless the phones are over 100ohms, but once you get to that point, it is bliss. I have heard the fiio x5ii and x3ii and III, hidisz and xduoo x10, ibasso dx50, and I can say the ak4497 dsd definitely wipes the floor with them, I was especially angry after buying the fiio x1ii, cost the same, but in the end, I couldn't wait to toss the piece of crap out, zishan has given more updates to there dsd then fiio did the x1 ii

 

[Merlin-PT]

If you modify electronics, be aware that sound changes during burn-in process of components.

If you wait another 150 hours of playtime, the device probably sounds again like stock.

The way you compare opamps, isn't the way to go, they should all have at least 150 hours of playtime before comparing.

All op275 that I bought over the years sounded the same and I never experienced that their sound changed over time.
Also you assume that the stock opamps in DSD are used/burnin, but I changed them just after 2 or 3 hours of listening, so I'm comparing brand new op275. The change in sound was not subtle and it was the same thing with my Z2 (Z2 was used several weeks before and after changing opamps). So the change in sound I notice here is not due to electronics burnin or components aging.

Aging/burnin also doesn't apply to this:
"one of my stock caps is different from the others and according to the nichicon datasheet, that model isn't gold color."

EDIT:
Top are OP275G that came with my Zishan DSD, bottom are Analog Devices OP275G imported form USA:

 

[stmiller]

My hybrid iem (zs6) sounds its best with the 4497. Sibilance isn't an issue anymore.

Ba (ate) sounds conjested. Eq isn't much help here.

The Isines strangely don't sound much different from ba with this dap. Also a bit congested with poor separation, eq only makes the sound thinner with less body.

This all from 2.5mm and 3.5mm out.

 

[cobrabucket]

Well I currently have the ak4490 version and tje ak4497 version, i can say it plays well with most hybrid iems, and it might play well with some b.a. iems, if you use head gear that's less then 50 ohms then that's your best bet, there is also the ak4495 version, I read it has better synergy with lower impedance phones but it's still a high impedance player, and if you prefer a 2.5 mm balanced over a line out, or you want the latest dac then there is the ak4497 version and it is also high impedance and not very good with hybrid iems, terrible with b.a. iems and changes the sound of everything unless the phones are over 100ohms, but once you get to that point, it is bliss. I have heard the fiio x5ii and x3ii and III, hidisz and xduoo x10, ibasso dx50, and I can say the ak4497 dsd definitely wipes the floor with them, I was especially angry after buying the fiio x1ii, cost the same, but in the end, I couldn't wait to toss the piece of crap out, zishan has given more updates to there dsd then fiio did the x1 ii

I am getting some DM6s. Would this be able to be used by 4497? I know the impedance is low on the DM6.

 

[abartels]

Top are OP275G that came with my Zishan DSD, bottom are Analog Devices OP275G (these were imported form USA, but I've bought them before not from china and they also look liked this):

The top ones are indeed fake ones. Analog Devices chips always have their logo printed on them.
It's a sad thing many Chinese manufacturers use fake components.

Glad mine has original AD8620's inside

My Zishan DSD AK4497 - modified version - sounded at its best after 6 days of continuous playing….

 

[Merlin-PT]

I don't dismiss what you are saying about burn-in, I also burn-in my devices for 1 week just in case, but I don't notice changes in sound in all the cases and the very few cases I noticed changes they were so subtle, I couldn't be sure it was because of burn-in.
In my DSD there was no amount of burn-in that was going to change what I was hearing and seeing.

 

[ThanosD]

Guys, anybody using the 2.5mm balanced output, what type of wiring uses?
I came across this picture, and I want to build a custom cable. Which standard should I use, so that it is compatible with the zishan?

 

[abartels]

there's no output schematic available, I just can say I use these for my KZ-ZS10

Cable is B-Type 2.5mm

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-3...108.1000016.1.3e011d59X4JtQ9&isOrigTitle=true

I could measure what is used for left and right