[mikoss]

Lol nicely done Fran. That cable looks sick. I still want to hear the Beyer T1's that you and Bill listen with. I'm afraid my ears might bleed since they're used to the rolled off HD-650 treble... I've found I'm prone to fatigue with a lot of the setups people are using with newer more revealing phones. But tubes do tend to fix that... Who knows.

So do the 421a tubes have the same overall sound as 5998 tubes? My take on the 5998 tubes was power... I personally find them to offer a v shaped presentation, with an emphasis on bass and treble. I found the (cheap RCA) 6as7g's to be more balanced sounding, but less intimate/refined.
I'd suspect that from their reputation, the GEC 6as7g's would be neutral and detailed, sort of like your CCa tubes. I also haven't heard for sure whether the 421A's are the same as 5998's or not.

 

[hodgjy]

I also haven't heard for sure whether the 421A's are the same as 5998's or not.

This has been debated extensively, and there's no absolute answer written anywhere in stone. However, nothing anyone can ever tell me will convince me they are different tubes or sound any differently. The main people saying they are better and sound better are the sellers looking to turn a profit on them. The end users often cannot tell them apart outside of expectation bias.

 

[Franatic]

Lol nicely done Fran. That cable looks sick. I still want to hear the Beyer T1's that you and Bill listen with. I'm afraid my ears might bleed since they're used to the rolled off HD-650 treble... I've found I'm prone to fatigue with a lot of the setups people are using with newer more revealing phones. But tubes do tend to fix that... Who knows.

So do the 421a tubes have the same overall sound as 5998 tubes? My take on the 5998 tubes was power... I personally find them to offer a v shaped presentation, with an emphasis on bass and treble. I found the (cheap RCA) 6as7g's to be more balanced sounding, but less intimate/refined.
I'd suspect that from their reputation, the GEC 6as7g's would be neutral and detailed, sort of like your CCa tubes. I also haven't heard for sure whether the 421A's are the same as 5998's or not.

Yes, these T1s are really sweet....a very nice upgrade.
 
I have owned both the TS 5998, the Western Electric 421A and the National Electronics (origin debatable) 421A.
 
I find the 421A very superior to the 5998 based on MY listening experience, not my technical knowledge of tubes. The main difference I hear is the impartment of air into the system by the 421A.. This is superior to any other power tube. It creates layers of sound and a larger soundstage. I would say it has a similar sound profile as the 5998 but much more pleasant to listen to. When I first heard them, I was taken aback. I was not expecting such a difference. The Nationals have more air, the Westerns more bass, both excellent.
 
It is interesting, many people whose tube knowledge I respect and that far exceeds mine, did not find such a difference. I've owned all the good power tubes for the WA2, so I have a good basis for making a qualified judgement.
 
I will continue to enjoy my 421As. My GEC 6AS7Gs are having a hard time getting back in my amp.
 
I use the WA2 preamp function a lot. The airy quality of the 421A is even more evident in my speaker system.

 

[billerb1]

Yes, these T1s are really sweet....a very nice upgrade.
 
I have owned both the TS 5998, the Western Electric 421A and the National Electronics (origin debatable) 421A.
 
I find the 421A very superior to the 5998 based on MY listening experience, not my technical knowledge of tubes. The main difference I hear is the impartment of air into the system by the 421A.. This is superior to any other power tube. It creates layers of sound and a larger soundstage. I would say it has a similar sound profile as the 5998 but much more pleasant to listen to. When I first heard them, I was taken aback. I was not expecting such a difference. The Nationals have more air, the Westerns more bass, both excellent.
 
It is interesting, many people whose tube knowledge I respect and that far exceeds mine, did not find such a difference. I've owned all the good power tubes for the WA2, so I have a good basis for making a qualified judgement.
 
I will continue to enjoy my 421As. My GEC 6AS7Gs are having a hard time getting back in my amp.
 
I use the WA2 preamp function a lot. The airy quality of the 421A is even more evident in my speaker system.

 


You are a fortunate man to have the best tubes for the WA2. And it's such a shame that those GEC's are collecting dust...and probably always will. Such a waste. I could help you with your 'problem'. You know, Fran...the first step in getting help is admitting you have a 'problem'.
I'm here to help.

 

[Franatic]

 

You are a fortunate man to have the best tubes for the WA2. And it's such a shame that those GEC's are collecting dust...and probably always will. Such a waste. I could help you with your 'problem'. You know, Fran...the first step in getting help is admitting you have a 'problem'.
I'm here to help.

Ah Bill, you're killing me, now I fell bad. I know eventually I'll want to change up the sound of my WA2 and use them. How about a pair of GEC 6080s, they're almost as good!
 
As far as problems, I've gone 23 years without indulging my big "problem", one day at a time. I'm truly blessed!

 

[billerb1]

Ah Bill, you're killing me, now I fell bad. I know eventually I'll want to change up the sound of my WA2 and use them. How about a pair of GEC 6080s, they're almost as good!
 
As far as problems, I've gone 23 years without indulging my big "problem", one day at a time. I'm truly blessed!

 


I already have the GEC6080's from Mike. They are very nice...that's why I want big brother.

Don't you have an expensive purchase coming up (" I will keep looking......gotta buy the idsd pro next month first though.")
Like I mentioned before, I'm trying to help. PM me, Fran. Let's talk.

 

[mikoss]

LMAO Bill, you are insufferable!! (The pot calling the kettle black for sure, but hey!)
 
Fran, were your Amperex PQ's made in the USA?
 
I'm still waiting on my Telefunken CCa tubes, but I've also been warned that they're probably fakes and just a pair of Telefunken ECC88's... or perhaps used E88CC's... Did you ever get a chance to hear Tele's?
 
Also, I do believe the Tung Sol 7236 tubes sound more balanced than the GEC 6080's... and you know how much I do love the 6080's upper midrange. But boy... these TS tubes just extend everything out so very far.

 

[billerb1]

LMAO Bill, you are insufferable!! (The pot calling the kettle black for sure, but hey!)


 


Fran, were your Amperex PQ's made in the USA?


 


I'm still waiting on my Telefunken CCa tubes, but I've also been warned that they're probably fakes and just a pair of Telefunken ECC88's... or perhaps used E88CC's... Did you ever get a chance to hear Tele's?


 


Also, I do believe the Tung Sol 7236 tubes sound more balanced than the GEC 6080's... and you know how much I do love the 6080's upper midrange. But boy... these TS tubes just extend everything out so very far.

 


Mike, I'm WORKING !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Franatic]

mikoss: "Fran, were your Amperex PQ's made in the USA?"
 
My Amperex 6922 PQ white labels were made in Hicksville, NY in the early 1960s. They were my driver tubes for about 3 months...nice mids and bass, slightly warm but with a clean top end. A very musical tube. Not as detailed or transparent as the CCA, but I can see why many people would prefer it.
 
I certainly want to hold on to them(as well as the GEC 6AS7Gs) as I can see myself rolling them back in at some point.

 

[billerb1]

  mikoss: "Fran, were your Amperex PQ's made in the USA?"
 
My Amperex 6922 PQ white labels were made in Hicksville, NY in the early 1960s. They were my driver tubes for about 3 months...nice mids and bass, slightly warm but with a clean top end. A very musical tube. Not as detailed or transparent as the CCA, but I can see why many people would prefer it.
 
I certainly want to hold on to them(as well as the GEC 6AS7Gs) as I can see myself rolling them back in at some point.

 
Uncle.

 

[switchride]

Picked this up for my Birthday a few weeks ago and I'm loving it so far with my T1's: http://www.ebay.com/itm/171690281023?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 
Added Siemens E88CC and RFT EZ80's so far. Had orange globes at first but the oranage globes first but the Siemens E88CC were much more pleasant to me when I swapped them in. I was a little shocked how much more I liked them. Still on the hunt for a good deal on the Tung Sol 5998's I keep seeing recommended though.  
 
One concern I have though is sometimes when I am listening to music it sounds like the power is fading in and out.  Almost like the volume knob is being turned up and down slowly or the power is pulsing in and out in waves.  I am wondering if this could be a tube issue or if is possibly something wrong with the amp itself?  It doesn't always do it but I have noticed it happening a few times over the past weeks and it usually goes away the longer I leave the amp on.

 

[MIKELAP]

  Picked this up for my Birthday a few weeks ago and I'm loving it so far with my T1's: http://www.ebay.com/itm/171690281023?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 
Added Siemens E88CC and RFT EZ80's so far. Had orange globes at first but the oranage globes first but the Siemens E88CC were much more pleasant to me when I swapped them in. I was a little shocked how much more I liked them. Still on the hunt for a good deal on the Tung Sol 5998's I keep seeing recommended though.  
 
One concern I have though is sometimes when I am listening to music it sounds like the power is fading in and out.  Almost like the volume knob is being turned up and down slowly or the power is pulsing in and out in waves.  I am wondering if this could be a tube issue or if is possibly something wrong with the amp itself?  It doesn't always do it but I have noticed it happening a few times over the past weeks and it usually goes away the longer I leave the amp on.

Is it in both channels at same time or 1 channel try switching tubes if you have spare sets see if it happens again  clean pins of your tubes. Everytime i get new tubes i always take a piece of fine sandpaper and sand all the pins . If it happens after that probably the amp .Seller didnt say he had this problem 

 

[mikoss]

Hey peeps,
 
Here's what I've found for my preference with the WA2:
 
Sennheiser 650's:
Brimar EZ81 rectifiers + Tung Sol 7236 power tubes + Philips Miniwatt E188CC = as good as the 650's get. (If I had Philips Holland PW 6922, those may beat the E188CC's...)
 
LCD-3 Fazors:
Brimar EZ81 rectifiers + Tung Sol 5998 power tubes + Siemens grey CCas = my favourite combo with the WA2 and LCD's so far...
 
 
Awesomeness. Thanks to @Franatic and @billerb1 and @Dubstep Girl 

 

[billerb1]

Hey peeps,


 


Here's what I've found for my preference with the WA2:


 


Sennheiser 650's:


Brimar EZ81 rectifiers + Tung Sol 7236 power tubes + Philips Miniwatt E188CC = as good as the 650's get. (If I had Philips Holland PW 6922, those may beat the E188CC's...)


 


LCD-3 Fazors:


Brimar EZ81 rectifiers + Tung Sol 5998 power tubes + Siemens grey CCas = my favourite combo with the WA2 and LCD's so far...


 


 


Awesomeness. Thanks to @Franatic and @billerb1 and @Dubstep Girl 

 


Congrats on your new baby, Mike, those classy LCD3 Fazors.

 

[mikoss]

In case anyone is on the fence about upgrading their driver tubes... here are some impressions. I gleamed them from using the CCa in my tube buffered DAC.
 
Thoughts on the Siemens grey shield CCa...
 
- This is without a doubt a high fidelity presentation. It is extremely musical sounding, yet it's a German tube... if you've auditioned other Siemens tubes and found them to be dry, or overly v-shaped in their presentation, this takes the V and fills in the middle. The presentation of this tube will literally send chills through your spine... it is extremely unique in that the soundstage depth/width/imaging/spatial cueing is incredibly full. Top to bottom, side to side, sonic layering from front to back... the presentation is absolutely involving and engulfing.
 
- Mids are much different than the Philips tubes though. They are more tilted towards the upper midrange, (which is a very nice place to tilt them). They remind me of the liquid midrange I hear with old school Mullard tubes... you get the tweed of the guitar, and more of the high-end distortion coming through. The body is not as full or "holographic" sounding as the Amperex house sound (Orange globes, Miniwatts, etc), but it is full of detail... rich, high-mid detail. This tube creates its own holography from top to bottom... but it's not mid-focused like the Amperex tubes.
 
- Bass is full as well. I have always found the E88CC tubes to sound a bit more bass heavy than their E188CC counterparts, which to me come across for the most part as a tad more refined/elegant. I am not a bass head, but have no major problem with the bass presentation of the CCa. It's plentiful, fulfilling, but for me, a bit exaggerated. This is part of my minor qualm with this tube... the exaggerated bass and tilted mids create a less linear presentation than the E188CC tubes. HOWEVER, for this tube, the bass is definitely part of the experience... the depth of the soundstage is only possible because of the power down below, and up top.
 
- Speaking of the high end, it has a lot of energy, and it translates very well with HD-650's. I also believe the top-end presentation absolutely contributes to the detail this tube presents... nuances in tonal decay are present throughout every song. I've found personally that picking up on these nuances is only possible with a very select few tubes, and I've never heard them presented so very perfectly as this tube does. Spatial details I never thought possible are in our music, and I fully believe this tube allows you to hear them unlike any other 6DJ8 tube.
 
I've heard other CCa's that are nowhere near knocking my socks off the way this tube has. I especially enjoy it for rock music... I said this about the PW tubes, and I will say it also about this tube; it changes my music in a way that reminds me of vinyl. The music sounds organic, very raw, and surrounding. High fidelity.
 
Other minor quibbles are:
-Attack is not as fast as Orange Globes... I find the OG's to sound very precise in their presentation, even if their tone is more rounded off. The tone of the CCa tube is more satisfying at times though, and the decay is superb. They just seem to not have the same initial definition of each note, yet once the notes are there, they linger beautifully.
-I also find the CCa's to be fatiguing over long sessions. I attribute this to their midrange tilt, and I find it very interesting... I don't really get fatigue from any other tubes with my HD-650's. I am very sensitive to bright headphones, and I guess these tubes just happen to put a bit too much energy into the treble for extended listening sessions. I do find that taking a 5 minute break every once in a while helps. It's not the very top end of the treble either, like I said, it's in the upper mids.
-Linearity and elegance is not there... I don't want to say they sound muddled up, because that sounds harsh, but they don't have Telefunken-like laser precision, and it's audible. It's not a distraction to me, because their presentation is just so emotionally involving, yet it makes me want to go back to E188CC tubes every once in a while. I like refinement, but I really, really love the Siemens grey shield CCa's.
 
@billerb1 in case you are wondering, I still love the PW 6922 and hold it in the top dog spot. (Mostly for the linearity, tonality, body, and absolutely perfect midrange). If it imaged like the CCa, I would die of sonic bliss.