The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.

[MatW]

And mine was serial no. 10 of those 50.
Damn, looks like I sold an abnormal special edition Moses bound to be worth millions later LOL!

I have the regular edition as well and it says 15/50 on the card. I think we can ignore the /50 bit though, as it’s not supposed to be a limited edition?

Thanks. I asked because I'm looking for something even more portable than the A&K SE300 that I now use

I’m using my Shanling M6U for walks. Works very well for that use case imho.

Edit: never mind, I see the AK player you’re using is 60 grams lighter already.

 

[Noobzilla]

Anyone here have experience claiming warranty for an oxidized cable? How bad was the oxidation. Was it just one spot or several places? How did the manufacturer respond?

I have a Astral Acoustics Reference Silver cable (type 6 litz) that oxidized in one spot. I'm not the original owner so I can't tell for certain if it had occurred before or during my possession, but regardless it's only 7+ month old cable from the purchase date by the original owner. Oxidation on silver can be tricky to spot under white light because the reflection has similar color as the oxidation as shown on the first image. Silver oxidation is easier to spot under warm lighting. I didn't notice any cut in the area which would've easily compromised the protection. If it's from a drop of liquid or from my frequent sneezing, then the protective layers are bad at doing its job. I've had much older non-litz cables that has touched liquid but those never had this issue.

I sent it for warranty replacement. To be transparent the warranty is non-transferrable, but I can also technically send it back to the original owner and have him claim it. Issue here is what the Astral Acoustics owner said regarding the oxidized cable:

"Cable oxidation is often due to poor storage or when a cable is exposed to heavily humid circumstances, and it is not fixable. This is more of an indication of the user's storage fault when there is only one case of oxidation." (bold added by me)

So head's up! Even if used similarly and stored as other cables but somehow only the Astral Acoustic cable gets one spot of oxidation it will be considered user storage fault and won't be valid for warranty claim. I guess soak the whole thing in water? (sarcasm) =)

 

[Emvo]

Hump day! Hope all is well... haven't been around much in the past month since work, but some of the write ups I've read have been great!

Keep jamming everyone!

 

[Tristy]

Anyone here have experience claiming warranty for an oxidized cable? How bad was the oxidation. Was it just one spot or several places? How did the manufacturer respond?

I have a Astral Acoustics Reference Silver cable (type 6 litz) that oxidized in one spot. I'm not the original owner so I can't tell for certain if it had occurred before or during my possession, but regardless it's only 7+ month old cable from the purchase date by the original owner. Oxidation on silver can be tricky to spot under white light because the reflection has similar color as the oxidation as shown on the first image. Silver oxidation is easier to spot under warm lighting. I didn't notice any cut in the area which would've easily compromised the protection. If it's from a drop of liquid or from my frequent sneezing, then the protective layers are bad at doing its job. I've had much older non-litz cables that has touched liquid but those never had this issue.



I sent it for warranty replacement. To be transparent the warranty is non-transferrable, but I can also technically send it back to the original owner and have him claim it. Issue here is what the Astral Acoustics owner said regarding the oxidized cable:

"Cable oxidation is often due to poor storage or when a cable is exposed to heavily humid circumstances, and it is not fixable. This is more of an indication of the user's storage fault when there is only one case of oxidation." (bold added by me)

So head's up! Even if used similarly and stored as other cables but somehow only the Astral Acoustic cable gets one spot of oxidation it will be considered user storage fault and won't be valid for warranty claim. I guess soak the whole thing in water? (sarcasm) =)

My Eletech Aristotle has a lot of this and I’d say the way I store my IEMs/ cables is borderline OCD. It doesn’t seem to impact the sound but would be curious to get someone’s take who is more knowledgable on the subject.

 

[drftr]

My Eletech Aristotle has a lot of this and I’d say the way I store my IEMs/ cables is borderline OCD. It doesn’t seem to impact the sound but would be curious to get someone’s take who is more knowledgable on the subject.

Oxidized copper apparently loses about 50% of its conductiveness compared to pure copper. But you can't really tell how much oxidation actually has taken place on the individual wires, whether you'd be able to hear the difference, and whether that makes it sound worse or better to your ears. The combination of those factors makes it an exercise in futility, I think.

drftr

 

[DaveStarWalker]

Anyone here have experience claiming warranty for an oxidized cable? How bad was the oxidation. Was it just one spot or several places? How did the manufacturer respond?

I have a Astral Acoustics Reference Silver cable (type 6 litz) that oxidized in one spot. I'm not the original owner so I can't tell for certain if it had occurred before or during my possession, but regardless it's only 7+ month old cable from the purchase date by the original owner. Oxidation on silver can be tricky to spot under white light because the reflection has similar color as the oxidation as shown on the first image. Silver oxidation is easier to spot under warm lighting. I didn't notice any cut in the area which would've easily compromised the protection. If it's from a drop of liquid or from my frequent sneezing, then the protective layers are bad at doing its job. I've had much older non-litz cables that has touched liquid but those never had this issue.



I sent it for warranty replacement. To be transparent the warranty is non-transferrable, but I can also technically send it back to the original owner and have him claim it. Issue here is what the Astral Acoustics owner said regarding the oxidized cable:

"Cable oxidation is often due to poor storage or when a cable is exposed to heavily humid circumstances, and it is not fixable. This is more of an indication of the user's storage fault when there is only one case of oxidation." (bold added by me)

So head's up! Even if used similarly and stored as other cables but somehow only the Astral Acoustic cable gets one spot of oxidation it will be considered user storage fault and won't be valid for warranty claim. I guess soak the whole thing in water? (sarcasm) =)

The good news is that pure silver oxydation doesn't affect at all the conductiveness.

So the prejudice is purely and only cosmetic.

But yes, this is still a prejudice.

To prevent this metal behaviour, I use desiccant sachets (silica gel) in all my storage pouches. It works perfectly, for years...

 

[fidgeraldo]

xidized copper apparently loses about 50% of its conductiveness compared to pure copper.

Some people claim that they buy cables only for the look, not for sonic advantages. And pay a substantial sum of money for that pleasure.
That oxidized cables look pretty nice. You can't mimic that, it's natural, and natural is the best.
Perhaps they would be willing to trade or buy it. It would be a win-win situation.

I am waiting to see someone to answer the call; if not, I'll be disappointed.

Cheers!

 

[drftr]

The good news is that pure silver oxydation doesn't affect at all the conductiveness.

So the prejudice is purely and only cosmetic.

But yes, this is still a prejudice.

To prevent this metal behaviour, I use desiccant sachets (silica gel) in all my storage. It works perfectly, for years...

Yep, for silver that holds true. For copper it doesn't.

Gimme some green silver cable, baby

drftr

 

[DaveStarWalker]

Yep, for silver that holds true. For copper it doesn't.

Gimme some green silver cable, baby

drftr

Yes, this is the main copper flaw.

Well, real oxygen free copper is less sensitive to this phenomenon than the "raw" copper. But... Just less...

Silver : no probs

And about the sound : really I don't know how it affects the sonics, if so, since the conductivity is only a variable in a very complex equation...

 

[KuroKitsu]

It's called patina

 

[audioaura]

Here are some impressions from my IEM journey throughout the years. Listed in order that I acquired, so some comparisons open up as time goes on. I'm not a huge fan of ratings, as they're naturally skewed. We only purchase things that we think we would like, so everything *should* fall above the 5/10 mark. So take that into consideration how you will. All scores are taking price into consideration.

This playlist has gone through some evolution throughout the years, but here is the gauntlet that every IEM goes through:


Preface: I got into IEMs about 10 years ago. My first set was an Audio Technica ATH IM02. Then I moved up to the Campfire Andromeda (pre-2019), then to the Thieaudio Monarch mk1. I used each of those sets for a couple years before graduating university. With some income at my disposal, I started the hunt. I generally like a bass boosted neutral/slightly warm tuning and don't do well with wonky midranges.

Fatfreq Maestro SE - I am certainly a basshead, no denying it. I liked the level of bass here, although sometimes it did end up too much. Good details, although maybe falling behind for the price. Had to sell due to fit issues and a treble spike that didn't work for my library. 7/10

Elysian Diva 2023 - Did not understand the hype on this one. Everything came across slightly veiled and lacking that last layer of detail. Certainly a good IEM, but my expectations were set way too high. Comfortable though, and variable bass is nice. 6.5/10 (considering used price).

IER-Z1R - Mildly V shaped, TOTL bass. Awkward fit. Durability concerns with the MMCX. Midrange was a little too laid back for my tastes. Good treble. Ultimately not enough bass or midrange for my preferences. 8.5/10.

Hyla CE-5 - Edges out bass quality over the Z1R. Thin sounding midrange. Horrible driver flex. 5/10 (considering used price)

Kinera Verdandi - The best bass I've heard. The DD and BC combination does wonders. From my understanding, Kinera's parent company is a driver manufacturer and the DD and BC are made in-house. There's a solid amount of detail here, definitely in line with the price range. However the set falls flat on it's midrange tuning. Vocals just sound off and there is a lower mid leanness. I don't like using EQ, as I prefer my sets to be plug and play anywhere. However I desperately tried over 30 EQ profiles to fix it with no success. I think the 2BA unit for the midrange just isn't very receptive. Shells are massive and tips don't like to stay on. Love the cable and accessories. 6/10

Thieaudio Monarch Mk3 - Much improved bass quality compared to the mk1. I have yet to hear the mk2. I like the added midbass overall. Solid details, hard to beat at this price. Upper midrange does come off a little nasally however. 8/10

Thieaudio Oracle Mk3 - Pretty sure the dual DDs here are the same as the Monarch mk3. Better midrange tuning, non-offensive treble. I don't know a set that beats it at the same budget constraints. 9.5/10

Unique Melody MEST Mk1 - My favorite midrange out of any IEM. Crystal clear and vocals shine. Bass quality is not that great. Nothing to complain about with the treble, sounds like a standard EST implementation. Would have preferred more bass. The midrange blew out the rest of the competition that I ultimately decided to keep the MEST over the rest. 9/10 (considering used price)

In terms of subjective bass quality, Verdandi >> Hyla CE-5 > Z1R >>>> Monarch/Oracle Mk3 >>> MEST.

I used the MEST for about a year until I went back on the hunt.

Thieaudio Oracle mk1 - Fantastic tuning. Bass quality not that great (a combination I'm all too familiar with). Definitely lacking some details, but the tuning more than made up for it. 8/10 (considering used price).

Elysian x Effect Audio Gaea - Loved the build and design. Good bass quality. Upper midrange a bit too pronounced for my taste. Didn't feel like anything was missing on the treble considering the lack of ESTs. 8.5/10 (considering used price).

Canpur CP622B - Full disclosure, I'm working on a DIY project utilizing (nearly) the same drivers as the Canpur. The CP622B is what I would consider neutral. Slightly better quality mids than the MEST, good bass quality, and well-extended treble. Ultimately I prefer more bass and doesn't do anything special to justify the price (Why does this cost $3500?). 6/10.

Empire Ears Raven - Oh boy. Here we go. Why does this cost $3600? Well, the raven answers. A grandiose stage, physical bass, and magical presentation. Midrange detail that gives you excellent clarity without having elevated treble. Large shells. Driver flex. Unfortunately my unit developed a crack without any notable accidents. I believe this was due to the metal faceplate and thin resin shells making contact in the case. I didn't have the best experience with support which kind of put me off of EE as a whole, but this is certainly the best IEM I've ever heard. 9/10.

64 Audio U4s - Nice, physical bass. Good overall detail across the spectrum. Not my preferred midrange tuning, but doesn't sound wrong either. For a bass boosted neutral signature at this price, I would argue it's either this or the Monarch Mk3. I prefer the U4s due to the build and APEX modules. I'm big on comfort, and the pressure relief is super nice. 9/10

Aful Cantor - Had some high expectations with this one as well due to the frequency response similarities to the MEST. However like the Diva it just feels veiled across the spectrum. The internal design looks interesting, but with a neutral bass region I'm wondering what the purpose was. Beautiful shells, surprisingly good fit. Respect for not charging more. 7/10.

64 Audio Volur - Very unique bass presentation. Almost clinical, and not in a bad way. I would say it's the exact opposite end of the spectrum from "physical", but can't quite find the word for it. Like the U4s, the midrange isn't my preferred tuning. Good detail across the board. Upper treble spike doesn't really work for my library. 64 audio comfort is tough to beat. 8/10

Linsoul x HBB Jupiter - This one first came across my attention when I saw a Linsoul youtube video doing a sound test comparing the Jupiter to the Monarch Mk3. Of course these tests have their flaws, but I was surprised how much better the Jupiter sounded. The presentation came across so nice and I kept an eye out for a sale for nearly a year before I purchased one off classifieds. It is unbelievable that they crammed 1DD, 6BAs and 4EST into a shell this small. It is very comfortable with a nozzle that isn't too thick. I can wear this for 12 hours with no comfort issues. The bass quality isn't great, but I absolutely love the overall tuning. Everything is right where I want it to be. This is my preferred signature. It really hits you with this "wall of sound". Solid midrange detail, and treble is non fatiguing. Imaging is excellent, but stage is a little small. Accessories and packaging is a joke. The Dunu Titan S2 at 5% of the price runs laps around the accessories here.

It's an odd price point at $1600, but to be fair, I don't know a better IEM at that price. The Annihilator beats out the Jupiter in bass quality, midrange detail, treble, naturalness, and stage for example. But overall I just prefer the Jupiter. The tuning and comfort for me is just that good. 10/10

Unique Melody MEST Jet Black - The ceramic shells are so nice. They feel and look fantastic. Midrange detail is the best out of the lineup. Good staging and bass quality. Ultimately way too lean for my preferences. 8.5/10

Thieaudio Prestige LTD - Good bass quality, midrange detail, and treble tuning. Unfortunate that it also exists in the same world as the Jupiter. For some, I can easily see how they'd prefer the Prestige LTD to the Jupiter. In fact, I think most would. But overall the upper midrange is a bit too elevated for my tastes. Also not as comfortable as the Jupiter. Once again an odd price point. I would get this over the U4s if budget allows. 9.5/10

Flipears Legion - An absolute banger on some tracks, but some tracks its wonkiness with a side of midrange. The bone conduction is cranked up so high on these. Deep male vocals sound very unnatural and ultimately didn't work for my library. Overall tuning is quite similar to the Raven actually. For a quarter of the price, it gets close. Less detailed, but a more prominent midrange helps mask that. Overall sounds "less refined", but that's what more crossover points allows for. Incredible packaging and build. Appreciate the price. The nozzle angle didn't work for me and led to some discomfort after about an hour. I would not recommend as your only IEM. 8.5/10

Kinera Loki Emerald - This one was always on my radar since trying the Verdandi since it also incorporates Kinera's DD+BC combo. The Loki has more subbass extension, which compared to the Verdandi, takes a way a little bit of that punchy quality. The quality here is still remarkable, and I'd put it slightly behind the Z1R with the difference in tuning. Unlike the Verdandi however, there is no wonky midrange. Upper mids are quite pronounced and actually very similar to the Annihilator. Treble is smooth with good extension. Has an interesting nozzle design but it works for me. The lower midrange dip doesn't work with my spotify library. This same dip has some interesting effects on staging, and just like the Verdandi the stage is quite large.

While I work I typically listen to video game soundtracks as they're less distracting, and it performs better than any IEM I've tried. The added contrast with the lower mid dip really makes bass notes stand out. Responds very well to EQ. Has me excited to hear the Kinera Hela. 8/10

Unique Melody MEST Mk3 - Much improved bass quality compared to the mk1 and more midbass to my ear compared to the jet black. My preferred MEST, but not enough bass for my preferences. My favorite MEST design wise. 8.5/10 (considering used price)

Campfire Audio Clara - Extremely comfortable. Arguably the most comfortable IEM I've used. Looks stunning and feels premium. Musical, yet natural. The word that I immediately jumped to was "dynamic". Bass was quite punchy and vocals didn't suffer. I found detail retrieval to be quite competent and in line with the price range. I personally would have liked some more air up top. 8/10

Elysian Annihilator 2023 - Opinions still developing on this one. Bass quality is good but not great. Midrange is quite detailed - a little less than the MEST, but still good. Lower mids are pushed back further than I would like. Treble is going to require some brain burn in. Arguably better in every department than the Jupiter, but I still find myself reaching for the Jupiter because of it's tonality. Nozzle is also quite thick. 8/10

Fir Rn6:
My Fir Rn6 was faulty upon purchase from classifieds and has been in the RMA process for about a month now. I really liked what I heard while I had it, and the final showdown will most likely be the Rn6 vs the Jupiter.

There's still a few IEMs coming out that I want to hear (Volk Etoile, Forte Ears Mefisto, Kinera Hela, Quill Satin) but I'll have to dedicate a canjam for those. My wallet is over the buy/sell adventures at this point. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

Great read! I totally agree on the Campfire Jupiter—it’s not the cleanest, but that rich, full-bodied sound is hard to beat. Also, nice to see the Grand Maestro get a mention! It’s a bit overwhelming at first, but I’ve come to love its indulgent character. I do think the Monarch MkII is a bit more refined than it gets credit for, though—it’s technically excellent, even if not as exciting as some others.

 

[crush]

Great read! I totally agree on the Campfire Jupiter—it’s not the cleanest, but that rich, full-bodied sound is hard to beat. Also, nice to see the Grand Maestro get a mention! It’s a bit overwhelming at first, but I’ve come to love its indulgent character. I do think the Monarch MkII is a bit more refined than it gets credit for, though—it’s technically excellent, even if not as exciting as some others.

Thank you. I did just want to clarify that any reference to "Jupiter" was the Linsoul x HBB Jupiter.

 

[Gavin C4]

I have the regular edition as well and it says 15/50 on the card. I think we can ignore the /50 bit though, as it’s not supposed to be a limited edition?

I’m using my Shanling M6U for walks. Works very well for that use case imho.

Edit: never mind, I see the AK player you’re using is 60 grams lighter already.

And mine was serial no. 10 of those 50.
Damn, looks like I sold an abnormal special edition Moses bound to be worth millions later LOL!

Dear MatW and Rolu

The Black honeycomb faceplate is the Regular edition. We might have accidentally placed cards with S/N X / 50 in the package. You may contact your dealer to exchange the correct cards.

Gavin

 

[dududuckling]

Hi,

I am considering between the Flipears Legion and preowned Empire Ears Legend Evo for bass/EDM/Trance/Dubstep genre. I will be pairing it with Effect Audio CODE 23 and iBasso DC Elite. How do these two compare? Is it worth topping up a few hundreds dollars more for a preowned Legend Evo, instead of getting a brand new Flipears Legion? And should I consider the Empire Ears Raven?

This replaces the Fatfreq Maestro Mini or Scarlet Mini in my collection. Initially I was about to let the Maestro Mini go, but since pairing with DC Elite, which sounds neutral, reference and pairs well with colored IEMs like Maestro Mini, the Scarlet Mini does not make sense anymore.

 

[Dandelion777]

Hi,

I am considering between the Flipears Legion and preowned Empire Ears Legend Evo for bass/EDM/Trance/Dubstep genre. I will be pairing it with Effect Audio CODE 23 and iBasso DC Elite. How do these two compare? Is it worth topping up a few hundreds dollars more for a preowned Legend Evo, instead of getting a brand new Flipears Legion? And should I consider the Empire Ears Raven?

This replaces the Fatfreq Maestro Mini or Scarlet Mini in my collection. Initially I was about to let the Maestro Mini go, but since pairing with DC Elite, which sounds neutral, reference and pairs well with colored IEMs like Maestro Mini, the Scarlet Mini does not make sense anymore.

Id choose Evo over legion. Imho, Legion sounds huge, but empty, to me. Evo just sounds way more refined and mature overall.