The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.
Apr 4, 2023 at 1:42 AM Post #54,556 of 91,364
IMO if this were a problem with the product itself alone and there is 1 person from 1000 complain about the product itself only. That gonna be normal as nobody perfect.

But the problem Sifo experience right now involve customer support. For item in this price range which imo already overpriced by itself should have much better customer support than what Sifo had faced.
 
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Apr 4, 2023 at 1:43 AM Post #54,557 of 91,364
I really should get to sleep because work, but new toy syndrome hitting hard. So far so good, but need some more time to evaluate.

Lot thinner than I expected, but a bit stiff.

A functional y-split! And I need it for once. I played around with the memory wire, but ended up more or less going back to the shape it arrived in(The insulation doesn't really allow it to bend as much as my Cardas Clear to get a nice loop.I needed the y split to get it to stay on my left ear.
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Apr 4, 2023 at 2:22 AM Post #54,558 of 91,364
They can just block all the sound bores at their entrance except one to see if that bore is the cause, no need to open it up. You can even do that yourself with some blutak and steady hands.
Hey man! good to see you in Head-Fi!! i've missed you guyss :tired_face:
 
Apr 4, 2023 at 2:23 AM Post #54,559 of 91,364
IMO if this were a problem with the product itself alone and there is 1 person from 1000 complain about the product itself only. That gonna be normal as nobody perfect.

But the problem Sifo experience right now involve customer support. For item in this price range which imo already overpriced by itself should have much better customer support than what Sifo had faced.

For example, my Kublai Khan once have nearly non noticeable channel imbalance. I got in touch with Noble and got the address and contact of Noble's co-founder who live in Bangkok which is my city. He don't even hesitated to invited me to sat in his house while he check them with his tools and replaced them for me.
Thats top notch customer service and support right there
 
Apr 4, 2023 at 2:50 AM Post #54,561 of 91,364
So there has been an on-going situation with my Aroma Jewel that I wanted to share with everyone, since people keep asking me about it and I'm tired of retelling it. The following story is told exactly how I experienced it from my perspective. I tried to remain factual and to cut out any hyperbole, you can decide for yourself how I should feel about this situation.

It all started in NYC 2022 where I tried Jewel at the MusicTeck booth with an EA Chiron 4w under the worst conditions possible. Noisy show floor with my old Fiio X7 because my usual DAP's battery bloated and had to be sent to AK for RMA. After all the hype about Jewel, I was largely disappointed and wasn't impressed, as the Traillii stole the show for me.

Fast forward to September of 2022 where I bought the universal Jewel from my buddy TGXear because it was an incredibly good deal within Canada and I wanted to give it a second chance as this was at the height of Jewel's popularity. Originally I wanted to grab it so my local Toronto head-fi friends could hear it, because I figured I could always just sell it and move on if it didn't blow me away. Unfortunately, I loved it. I got to experience Jewel with my home set up under perfect conditions and was blown away by how good it was.

I loved it so much that I decided to go custom because of my preference for CIEM fit. This is a service that Aroma officially offers. I asked for empty shells to test for fit which Aroma printed using my STL, impressions that I had taken right after NYC 2022. They charged 1,499.00 HKD for the test shells, which is 190 USD. I got hit by customs for the full value of the test shells unfortunately because the package was labeled as "headphone".

They sent the test shells, I confirmed the fit and requested some minor adjustments.

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I sent my UIEM Jewel in along with my old Noble 4C so that they could use it for reference when adjusting the fit. They received it on November 14, 2022. I told them the design I wanted for my CIEM and then waited.

3 months later with COVID, Christmas, New Year, Lunar New Year, the Jewel was completed! I paid for the service AFTER it was completed, the price to convert UEIM to CIEM was 3,925.00 HKD which is 500 USD. I received it back on February 13, 2023.

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To my disappointment, there was an issue with the left IEM after getting it back in custom. No issue with the right side at all. Basically, being plugged into any powered source would cause an uncomfortably loud humming sound from the left IEM. It was loud enough to be heard over my music, and was quite frankly unusable. There was no problem with it when plugged into a DAP, so long as the DAP didn't have a charger plugged into it.

This issue was so sensitive that I could get it to hum/buzz just by having the Jewel in my ear, 4.4 unplugged from any source, and then touching a power cable with my finger. So basically it was impossible to use with my desktop RME ADI-2 DAC FS, which even has a Super Low Noise IEM Output. Keep in mind this is not the only IEM I own, but this is the first time I've ever had this happen. I am primarily a desktop user so this was unacceptable for my use case.

I asked if anyone I knew who owned a CIEM Jewel had this issue, to which everyone replied no. I also asked if any Universal Jewel owners had this issue, because I didn't hear the noise when I had it as a universal. Obviously if I did, I wouldn't have asked to convert it to CIEM. I reached out to Aroma, asking them the cost and time to repair this issue.

Their response was to assure me that this problem has nothing to do with the IEM and that it is due to the power source's transformer.

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I made a video with my poor Cantonese skills explaining how I could get the left IEM to buzz even just by touching a power cable with my finger. They agreed to take a look at it after seeing the video. I sent it back to them after NYC and asked if they could repair it to hand deliver to me in Singapore. They obliged despite the rush turnaround which I appreciate and did not charge me for this. This left them with only about 3 weeks to repair the IEM. They received it on March 6 and I left them alone until I followed up on March 17.

They said they found no issue with it during diagnosis and didn't open it up to check anything. Now I understand that they are hesitant about replacing parts without being able to diagnose it, so okay I will go talk to them in person.

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So I met up with them on Saturday at CanJam SG with 0 expectations. I have to preface this by saying that their English wasn't good enough to talk about electrical theory and audio, whereas my Cantonese wasn't good enough to talk about electrical theory and audio, so we were having some trouble communicating. I try the Jewel and can immediately hear there is still an issue. Mind you this is a noisy show floor so it was difficult, but definitely could tell it was there.

From the gist of it, what I understood was that they told me the following:
  • This is normal behaviour when plugged into a powered source, the noise is coming from the source's transformer.
  • There is nothing they can do to fix this as it is normal.
  • They had everyone in the lab try to listen for the noise with my CIEM but couldn't hear it.
  • They suggested that it may be due to my hearing sensitivity to this sort of noise and even suggested that I go buy a power conditioner as the solution.
I took it back to my hotel that night to try on my DAP while charging, and it was so loud and uncomfortable I had to take it out of my ear within seconds. I inserted the CIEM upside down as well and held my ear closed to emulate a "force fit", to see if I could hear it without the perfect deep insert fit as I would experience with CIEM, and I could absolutely still hear it despite being faint. Taking this home with me to my RME would not be productive.

I showed it to another IEM manufacturer and they looked inside the translucent shells with a flashlight and said that they saw the EST transformer touching another driver. Immediate diagnosis for a potential cause.

I also tried to use it to test some cables, and just by having my DAP on the table, maybe due to all the plugged in devices nearby causing interference, I could hear the left side buzzing. This was the last straw for me so I went back to Aroma's booth and told them I wouldn't be taking it home with me in this condition. I said if this still doesn't fix it I will send it back to you to convert to universal so I can sell it.

They ended up agreeing to take it with them back to Hong Kong and actually open up the left side this time, free of charge, to re-diagnose it. I told them that someone said the EST transformer was touching another driver, as well to just in general to be more careful with the wiring and positioning of components.

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To clarify: There is no problem with Aroma's communication, however I am upset at their reluctancy to offer me a solution. I've been trying to explain to them that there's a problem, but they are telling me that there's nothing wrong. I traveled half way across the world for them to tell me there's nothing wrong with the IEM, without offering a solution. Rather, they told me directly, "there is nothing we can do to fix it". I had to butt heads with them for them to take the IEM back to even look at it. That's the part that's been the most upsetting. As of now, they have taken the IEM back to open up. I don't know if this will fix anything, because again, they are absolutely certain that there's no issue with the IEM. I acknowledge there is a possibility where this is in fact just how the Jewel is and there isn't a problem.

However, you have to understand that an IEM that hums while being used with a desktop amp, loud enough to make me physically uncomfortable, coming out of only the left ear no matter how hard I troubleshoot, does not sound like acceptable behaviour for a $5000+ IEM. And I don't appreciate being told that I'm supposed to just accept this and that there is "nothing they can do about it"



Additionally, there happened to be an adjacent unfortunate circumstance with my Noble 4C. I am NOT accusing Aroma Audio of anything, however the IEM that I sent to them to use as reference for fit adjustment ended up being damaged. Since their booth was right behind Aroma, I went over to show John from Noble. He took a look at it and said that it looked like someone tried to repair on top of the damage with lacquer.

Obviously at this time I was quite emotional and upset so I assumed the worst. There was a chunk taken out of the intertragic notch area on the faceplate, as well as some cracks and scratches along the canal that could be felt with the fingernail.

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I didn't confront Aroma about this during CanJam but I emailed them after I got home. Aroma denies that they did any damage to it, so it is possible that this occurred during transport. However I shipped it to them after NYC with the Noble CIEM packed separately from the Jewel, and it was sufficiently secured. Aroma handed it to me in person, so there was very minimal shipping in the first place.

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John mentioned this again in the Noble thread.

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Noble agreed to repair and ship it back to me for 125 USD.

As for my personal response, emotions and all:

I honestly don't have very high hopes here, and have pretty much accepted the monetary loss. Maybe I'll try to sell it if someone else wants to take the risk.

I have been on this CIEM journey since 2016, and have acquired 6 of them now. Since then I have made great connections and relationships with many Head-Fiers, many of them representing IEM manufacturers. I've still had to pay for repairs and service, but I have never once been told that it cannot be fixed.

Maybe it was the language barrier; they seemed friendly enough and were helpful, just in the wrong way. It was a lot of effort for me to convince them to take the IEM back to rebuild. It's fine if they can't diagnose it but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

This experience, regardless of who is at fault, has left a very sour taste, despite the fact that CanJam was supposed to be a celebration of the hobby. This IEM was not cheap and has honestly turned me off from IEMs in general.

If you want to buy a Jewel, let me know. It works fine, at least according to Aroma.
Best time to think about not getting anything hyped and anything over 3000$ US dollar. In iem world it’s a dead horse😁 and frankly I’ve read many times about how HK audio companies being cheating - now I see it’s true. Only profit and nothing else. Simply put BP or shell petroleum.
As an outline if it was 500-700$ iems You would just forget as did I with my UERM(after reshell at Inearz audio one driver dead long time ago - circa 2016-17) send it over twice same thing they refused to agree drivers dead etc.
Still have it in the drawer😂 so.. yeah, if it wasn’t 3000$(most likely more?) it wouldn’t hurt that much.
 
Apr 4, 2023 at 3:13 AM Post #54,563 of 91,364
We should not normalize QC issue as if this is something consumers should live by.

The problem @Sifo is having is how incompetent Aroma Audio had been to resolve his issues. It's one thing for there to have been a manufacturing error, and another for the manufacturer to avoid what is clearly their responsibility.

Also, it doesn't help for you to comment that this is a rare occurrence as it does not take anything away from the problems @Sifo had been having.

Nobody is expected to be perfect.
But you're most certainly expected to be responsible for your own actions - which, in this case is justified for @Sifo to call Aroma Audio out.
I think differently.... I think it's normal from time to time to find some hitch with assistance. I've had a few similar service issues with my motorcyxle (20.000 euro) but it can happen. I have had service issues with my hifi system costing thousands and thousands of euros ( 50.000/60.000 euro) but it has never been a problem for me. It can happen. Also I am a very calm and tolerant person. So personally I never take it too much. But that's character.
 
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Apr 4, 2023 at 5:43 AM Post #54,564 of 91,364
I think differently.... I think it's normal from time to time to find some hitch with assistance. I've had a few similar service issues with my motorcyxle (20.000 euro) but it can happen. I have had service issues with my hifi system costing thousands and thousands of euros ( 50.000/60.000 euro) but it has never been a problem for me. It can happen. Also I am a very calm and tolerant person. So personally I never take it too much. But that's character.
After all, did they admit and handle those issues for you? What would you do if you were in @Sifo situation?
 
Apr 4, 2023 at 5:53 AM Post #54,565 of 91,364
After all, did they admit and handle those issues for you? What would you do if you were in @Sifo situation?
I had to insist a bit....mails, photos... everyone who writes their own reasons and for the motorcycle I solved it. But not with the hifi system. So I had to solve it by contacting the people who repaired the damage instead of the company that was supposed to give me assistance. And I still solved it anyway. What would I do in Sifo's place? What I just wrote above....it either fixes it with support or fixes it some other way. That's all.
 
Apr 4, 2023 at 6:59 AM Post #54,566 of 91,364
I had to insist a bit....mails, photos... everyone who writes their own reasons and for the motorcycle I solved it. But not with the hifi system. So I had to solve it by contacting the people who repaired the damage instead of the company that was supposed to give me assistance. And I still solved it anyway. What would I do in Sifo's place? What I just wrote above....it either fixes it with support or fixes it some other way. That's all.
So are you saying that the manufacturer who made and sell the product for thousand of euros or dollars ecc... refuse to repair and investigate on the problem is just okay and try with another one to fix it?
 
Apr 4, 2023 at 6:59 AM Post #54,567 of 91,364
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Settling with this for now. If only the Purple thingy could hurry up and arrive to HK.....
 
Apr 4, 2023 at 7:12 AM Post #54,568 of 91,364
So are you saying that the manufacturer who made and sell the product for thousand of euros or dollars ecc... refuse to repair and investigate on the problem is just okay and try with another one to fix it?
Yes. He refused to fix the fault and so I had other people in the industry fix it.
I didn't feel like keeping it broken.
 
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Apr 4, 2023 at 7:16 AM Post #54,569 of 91,364
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Settling with this for now. If only the Purple thingy could hurry up and arrive to HK.....
On a random note, I really, really want an Eletech Tyrian. I don't even know what I'd use it on. I have no IEMs to currently pair it with, but, like...it's a purple cable. Purple. How often do you even see that?
 

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