The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.

[RTodd]

Yesterday I looked up his and Head-Fi's definitions of audiophile and was surprised they didn't exist. The best I got was high fidelity for which the descriptions were quite meaningless, I thought.

drftr

There are a couple kinds of Audiofiles, one is the reference rasp, used to remove large chunks of music quickly.

“Never mind”

 

[gLer]

I have heard/read this a lot but has anyone actually done comparisons? Having done my fair share of cable demos by now I'd say it simply can't be true. Perhaps they're worse, or better, and I could agree with both, but for them to be the same I simply can't wrap my head around.

I haven't done the comparison myself, but many before me did, including the guys who make the 'replicas' (doctorjuggles and Skedra). If you run a search you'll probably find some user impressions.

I put 'replica' in parantheses because in the case of the 1950s/1960s, the cables are literally identical: Cardas Clear/Cardas Clear Light. I even have teardown pics of how they're made (they are actually extracted from headphone cables - Cardas don't supply the Clear wire on its own or make IEM cables afaik).

So the 'differences' are the IEM and amp-side connectors, which can also be made with PW hardware if you so choose.

For the majority of cables I agree, you can't replicate them exactly unless you use the same wire. For these two cables, you absolutely can.

(Also, the fact the 'replicas' cost half the price new as the PW 'originals' should give you some indication of the markup PW put in their cables, though that's more my conjecture than actual fact).

 

[drftr]

There are a couple kinds of Audiofiles, one is the rasp, used to remove large chunks of music quickly, the single and double-cut are both less aggressive ones.

“Never mind”

At least I can hide behind the fact that English isn't my native language

drftr

 

[drftr]

I haven't done the comparison myself, but many before me did, including the guys who make the 'replicas' (doctorjuggles and Skedra). If you run a search you'll probably find some user impressions.

I put 'replica' in parantheses because in the case of the 1950s/1960s, the cables are literally identical: Cardas Clear/Cardas Clear Light. I even have teardown pics of how they're made (they are actually extracted from headphone cables - Cardas don't supply the Clear wire on its own or make IEM cables afaik).

So the 'differences' are the IEM and amp-side connectors, which can also be made with PW hardware if you so choose.

For the majority of cables I agree, you can't replicate them exactly unless you use the same wire. For these two cables, you absolutely can.

(Also, the fact the 'replicas' cost half the price new as the PW 'originals' should give you some indication of the markup PW put in their cables, though that's more my conjecture than actual fact).

What makes it not stealing someone's ideas and bread? Shielding and stuff?

40-50% is pretty much standard and will be much higher if you're the distributor or shop front too.

drftr

 

[Deezel177]

Appreciate the use of the word, as applied to a career, however it is just a word. It is used throughout other disciplines with not exactly the same meaning as a sound engineer has for the word.

I have a favorite reference IEM set for several instruments and I am allowed to, giving myself permission to do that. As this is needed as I contrast and compare pieces of hardware.

I do agree As The Artist Intended and the word reference have nothing to do with each other. The former being only something the artist themselves could know, the later being a term for a standard of some sort or the sound engineer’s definition if you wish to use that one.

Listening for a different purpose then mastering are similar though different activities, they may require different tools to do those tasks well, one of those tools may actually be how we define reference. Both use listening as part of the process though what we are listening for is not totally the same.

That’s fair. I’d agree with you that every term is fair game, but I think it’s equally important to recognize the role of qualifiers in that case. So, if IEM A were your reference for strings, you’d call it a reference for strings. But, you wouldn’t call IEM A necessarily a reference IEM, right? In any case, wherever any of us choose to agree or disagree, I’m just so happy that this thread is basically free from the reference = bright or detailed = reference notions that brands once (and probably still) tried to push down our throats.

 

[gLer]

What makes it not stealing someone's ideas and bread? Shielding and stuff?

40-50% is pretty much standard and will be much higher if you're the distributor or shop front too.

drftr

They're not stealing anything. The 1950s/1960s don't have any sheathing other than what the raw Cardas Clear/Clear Light come with. PW don't add any sheathing to these cables.

 

[drftr]

They're not stealing anything. The 1950s/1960s don't have any sheathing other than what the raw Cardas Clear/Clear Light come with. PW don't add any sheathing to these cables.

Is there we a reason why we don't order that exact same cable from Cardas then and choose our plugs? Because that's what you can do.

drftr

 

[Auricon]

Jumps in the "reference" foray with haven't slept for 36 hours and how much I've been enjoying Rn6's warm reference sounds. Now, back to y'alls regularly scheduled programming

 

[maegnificant]

Is there we a reason why we don't order that exact same cable from Cardas then and choose our plugs? Because that's what you can do.

drftr

It's probably related to these pesky Extremeties... Gotta keep them Extremely Extended!

 

[gLer]

Is there we a reason why we don't order that exact same cable from Cardas then and choose our plugs? Because that's what you can do.

drftr

Yes...Cardas don't sell the raw cable, only the full shielded headphone version. The IEM cable is derived from that cable and is a pita to make apparently.

This is what Cardas sells:

The wrapping/sheathing then needs to be stripped down to extract the core cables, of which there are 4 in total in the two L+R sections of the headphone cable:

Which gives you this (in PW Audio format):

And also this:

Look familiar?

BTW, you can buy 5m of Cardas Clear headphone cable for $1,180 from various online suppliers:

A 1.2m length of PWA 1950s will set you back more than $2,000. Sure there's labour and skilled workmanship involved to make each cable, but even so, that's a JUICY profit margin right there. And that's on already marked-up cables.

IEM luxury cables are in a league of their own when it comes to pricing.

 

[Deezel177]

Yes...Cardas don't sell the raw cable, only the full shielded headphone version. The IEM cable is derived from that cable and is a pita to make apparently.

This is what Cardas sells:



The wrapping/sheathing then needs to be stripped down to extract the core cables, of which there are 4 in total in the two L+R sections of the headphone cable:



Which gives you this (in PW Audio format):



And also this:



Look familiar?

BTW, you can buy 5m of Cardas Clear headphone cable for $1,180 from various online suppliers:



A 1.2m length of PWA 1950s will set you back more than $2,000. Sure there's labour and skilled workmanship involved to make each cable, but even so, that's a JUICY profit margin right there. And that's on already marked-up cables.

IEM luxury cables are in a league of their own when it comes to pricing.

Have you seen some of the watches and cars these cable brand owners flex?

 

[gLer]

Have you seen some of the watches and cars these cable brand owners flex?

Oh I can just imagine. Good for them, smart businessmen. As long as there's a market for their markups, why not?

 

[drftr]

That looks absolutely gorgeous with your Z1R's!!!

The cable inside is their Cardas Grade 1 copper which you can buy from them directly should you ever want to experiment. Probably shaves off another 50%. And apparently there's no minimum length as long as they have it in stock.

drftr

 

[drftr]

As long as there's a market for their markups, why not?

Yep. Very few are being forced to buy their gear. Very few.

drftr

 

[vaporsynthwave]

how do I convince my friend to stop wearing his kilobuck iem's to the gym?