[discord]

Hmm, nice shape all the way up to 8khz, at which point it gets VERY scary! Would be interested to know how you hear that treble spike. And the smaller upper treble spike too.

I have the silver module installed on my demo KR5 (don't have the other modules) and the treble is no problem for me, I think you might be surprised. The graph makes use of the gold module. Here's a description from @twister6

 

[gLer]

If you are not troubled by Z1R. This is far more controlled. I personally find Z1R treble too spicy in some cases. And did not find KR5 bothersome.
Dont get me wrong they are revealing, but in a refined way. I was more confused about bass, i need to spend more time with them...

Z1R has the best/smoothest treble I've heard in an IEM. I'm more bothered by excess upper treble air that messes with higher pitched female vocal harmonics and 'breath'.

 

[Skullar]

Z1R has the best/smoothest treble I've heard in an IEM. I'm more bothered by excess upper treble air that messes with higher pitched female vocal harmonics and 'breath'.

Yeh upper treble is slightly more prominent on KR5.

 

[gLer]

Yeh upper treble is slightly more prominent on KR5.

Likewise on EXT. I get the appeal, but it doesn't sound as 'natural' to me after a while.

 

[Xinlisupreme]

Spending the day with these beauties. I can thing of worse ways to pass the time.


​

Soon i'll receive it also and i'll test with RS6.
My friend offered to lend me Phonix, Erlkonig, Elysium and VE7 also.
I chose EXT, Phonix and Elysium only because 5 are too many

 

[AlexanderBelonozhko]

For those who are interested, this post will be of a philosophical nature.
One of the things I've realized since I began IEM dev is technology evolves (whether it be a combination of old or something new) and breakthroughs are happening in every industry, and in most cases these breakthroughs are kept secret for the benefit of few. My question for anyone willing to respond is, do you see a future where you own a premium product that has extensive documentation about the design (I'm talking part numbers and step files) and provides the ability to customize it with few limitations?

 

[RTodd]

For those who are interested, this post will be of a philosophical nature.
One of the things I've realized since I began IEM dev is technology evolves (whether it be a combination of old or something new) and breakthroughs are happening in every industry, and in most cases these breakthroughs are kept secret for the benefit of few. My question for anyone willing to respond is, do you see a future where you own a premium product that has extensive documentation about the design (I'm talking part numbers and step files) and provides the ability to customize it with few limitations?

Sounds fun, I wonder though how does the brand develop a consensus on the sound profile if any driver combination could be chosen. Tuning so many variables so that each would have some common sound profile for the product would be so challenging.

 

[gLer]

Sounds fun, I wonder though how does the brand develop a consensus on the sound profile if any driver combination could be chosen. Tuning so many variables so that each would have some common sound profile for the product would be so challenging.

I concur, I'm less interested in part numbers and more in tuning choices. If you make the link between specific parts/tech in support of tuning choices, or how they improve the technical performance of an IEM, that's where it gets really interesting. I'm still mostly in the dark on how IEM tuning is achieved, who does the tuning, and if tuning is mostly done by ear or by measurement.

 

[DunkFealer]

For those who are interested, this post will be of a philosophical nature.
One of the things I've realized since I began IEM dev is technology evolves (whether it be a combination of old or something new) and breakthroughs are happening in every industry, and in most cases these breakthroughs are kept secret for the benefit of few. My question for anyone willing to respond is, do you see a future where you own a premium product that has extensive documentation about the design (I'm talking part numbers and step files) and provides the ability to customize it with few limitations?

I think this is a really cool idea. Although it does seem like a potentially smaller audience would be highly receptive to this kind of proposition (relative to the typical IEM audiophile scene size). As a scientist and occasional engineer, I'm very passionate about open source as a whole. The whole point of making scientific contributions is to disseminate them as widely as possible (evil publishing industry notwithstanding). While I understand the fear of "giving away your secret sauce" personally there is something viscerally cool and confident (braggadocious even) about putting your work out there in the open. Something that says "my work is so good that I will tell you exactly how everything works, and even then I'm still confident that I'm the king." Weird psychology aside, I would be like a child on Christmas Eve if an IEM I ordered came with a detailed design document detailing the intent and evolution of a product or it's components. You guys are masters of your craft, and getting a peek of the "master's process" in a product I love would really be a transcendent experience.

If what you were envisioning is more of a straightforward DIY kit, it's still cool (especially if there's neat tech) but there's probably some variables that would help derisk this idea. For example, not many people outside of hardcore DIY scenes would feel comfortable handling tiny expensive components. Like, I would never forgive myself if I, say, hot glued your kinetic bass driver to my finger on accident lol. So expensive components pose a high risk to the nonexpert that may discourage them from this idea. However, if you instead ensured a more "lego-like" assembly for the expensive components (and maybe still a normal challenge for cheap things like resistors) then this may work as well. Anyway, as you probably are aware, which limitations you enforce are precisely what define who your audience is. The hardcore DIYers will be turned off by the idea of putting 4 pieces together and being done, but basic consumers would appreciate that. Somewhere in the middle there's probably a good experience that speaks to both groups, and especially if you add value by including the kind of design documentation/process that I mentioned earlier.

 

[Whazzzup]

I’ll diy my cats litter box almost daily, that’s about it, oh by diy I mean clean

 

[AlexanderBelonozhko]

I think this is a really cool idea. Although it does seem like a potentially smaller audience would be highly receptive to this kind of proposition (relative to the typical IEM audiophile scene size). As a scientist and occasional engineer, I'm very passionate about open source as a whole. The whole point of making scientific contributions is to disseminate them as widely as possible (evil publishing industry notwithstanding). While I understand the fear of "giving away your secret sauce" personally there is something viscerally cool and confident (braggadocious even) about putting your work out there in the open. Something that says "my work is so good that I will tell you exactly how everything works, and even then I'm still confident that I'm the king." Weird psychology aside, I would be like a child on Christmas Eve if an IEM I ordered came with a detailed design document detailing the intent and evolution of a product or it's components. You guys are masters of your craft, and getting a peek of the "master's process" in a product I love would really be a transcendent experience.

If what you were envisioning is more of a straightforward DIY kit, it's still cool (especially if there's neat tech) but there's probably some variables that would help derisk this idea. For example, not many people outside of hardcore DIY scenes would feel comfortable handling tiny expensive components. Like, I would never forgive myself if I, say, hot glued your kinetic bass driver to my finger on accident lol. So expensive components pose a high risk to the nonexpert that may discourage them from this idea. However, if you instead ensured a more "lego-like" assembly for the expensive components (and maybe still a normal challenge for cheap things like resistors) then this may work as well. Anyway, as you probably are aware, which limitations you enforce are precisely what define who your audience is. The hardcore DIYers will be turned off by the idea of putting 4 pieces together and being done, but basic consumers would appreciate that. Somewhere in the middle there's probably a good experience that speaks to both groups, and especially if you add value by including the kind of design documentation/process that I mentioned earlier.

I'm aiming to check 2/3 of the boxes, I've heard many times you can't please everyone, but I know I can please a great majority. Having lego like IEMs that are sold in kits are entertaining, but not what I have in mind.
Having built units with the ability to tune on the go, with documentation and a summary of the evolution.
Part numbers and step files (for those not familiar, a .step file is a 3d model that allows for modification) for the mad men that enjoy putting it together more than listening to it.

 

[DunkFealer]

I'm aiming to check 2/3 of the boxes, I've heard many times you can't please everyone, but I know I can please a great majority. Having lego like IEMs that are sold in kits are entertaining, but not what I have in mind.
Having built units with the ability to tune on the go, with documentation and a summary of the evolution.
Part numbers and step files (for those not familiar, a .step file is a 3d model that allows for modification) for the mad men that enjoy putting it together more than listening to it.

Well for what it's worth I find this idea tantalizing haha. I hope you get the chance to follow thru with it. At a bare minimum, I have a lot of respect for when brands release projects that are clearly born out of pure passion. Best of luck

 

[RTodd]

I think this is a really cool idea. Although it does seem like a potentially smaller audience would be highly receptive to this kind of proposition (relative to the typical IEM audiophile scene size). As a scientist and occasional engineer, I'm very passionate about open source as a whole. The whole point of making scientific contributions is to disseminate them as widely as possible (evil publishing industry notwithstanding). While I understand the fear of "giving away your secret sauce" personally there is something viscerally cool and confident (braggadocious even) about putting your work out there in the open. Something that says "my work is so good that I will tell you exactly how everything works, and even then I'm still confident that I'm the king." Weird psychology aside, I would be like a child on Christmas Eve if an IEM I ordered came with a detailed design document detailing the intent and evolution of a product or it's components. You guys are masters of your craft, and getting a peek of the "master's process" in a product I love would really be a transcendent experience.

If what you were envisioning is more of a straightforward DIY kit, it's still cool (especially if there's neat tech) but there's probably some variables that would help derisk this idea. For example, not many people outside of hardcore DIY scenes would feel comfortable handling tiny expensive components. Like, I would never forgive myself if I, say, hot glued your kinetic bass driver to my finger on accident lol. So expensive components pose a high risk to the nonexpert that may discourage them from this idea. However, if you instead ensured a more "lego-like" assembly for the expensive components (and maybe still a normal challenge for cheap things like resistors) then this may work as well. Anyway, as you probably are aware, which limitations you enforce are precisely what define who your audience is. The hardcore DIYers will be turned off by the idea of putting 4 pieces together and being done, but basic consumers would appreciate that. Somewhere in the middle there's probably a good experience that speaks to both groups, and especially if you add value by including the kind of design documentation/process that I mentioned earlier.

Reminds me of something, so a quick story begging your indulgence.

When I was a kid of about 9 in 1975 my Father won a raffle for a build it yourself kit RCA color TV at a company Christmas party. My father was an electrical engineer, and he thought great project to do with my son.

The kit was on our dining room table for months as we soldered every component on the boards, after the months of work our reward would not only be building it together but having our first color TV.

Well we never got it to work…
I did learn how to solder though.

 

[Wyville]

I'm aiming to check 2/3 of the boxes, I've heard many times you can't please everyone, but I know I can please a great majority. Having lego like IEMs that are sold in kits are entertaining, but not what I have in mind.
Having built units with the ability to tune on the go, with documentation and a summary of the evolution.
Part numbers and step files (for those not familiar, a .step file is a 3d model that allows for modification) for the mad men that enjoy putting it together more than listening to it.

Do you mean, not something like the Final Make Series (link), but rather the "ultimate" custom IEM? Where you don't just spend days designing the look (I know I have), but you can go nuts with the internal design of the IEM as well?

 

[Deezel177]

Do you mean, not something like the Final Make Series (link), but rather the "ultimate" custom IEM? Where you don't just spend days designing the look (I know I have), but you can go nuts with the internal design of the IEM as well?

There's a potential pitfall in that concept, though. There's a chance for the customer to be given too much control, only to realise that it wasn't what they wanted in the first place. For example, @mvvRAZ ordered a fully-custom IEM from Plunge Audio, where he got to decide the tuning. It ended up sounding exactly how he asked, but he then realised it wasn't enjoyable or good. That's how I remember the story going. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Michael. So, with such a concept, there's always that risk of the customer not fully-knowing what they want or, in the end, realising that there's a disconnect between what they want and what sounds good. In Michael's case, he was considerate enough to recognise that this was what he'd asked for, and that it wasn't all Plunge's fault. But, what if you did get a customer who was upset at how their IEM turned out and blamed the brand, even though they tuned it exactly how they wanted? Who's to blame then?

I think that's why previous attempts at this concept (i.e. Ultimate Ears' Personal Reference Monitor and Sony's JustEar) make you undergo multiple stages of consultancy. It's to simultaneously make sure you're happy with the final product and to cover the company's backside. I believe you still have to have some form of demoing and fine-tuning to make something like this work, unless you're working with veteran clientele who could read graphs and all that. There are precursors for such a concept, though, with the ones I mentioned and the Final Make Series you brought up. So, as someone who personally advocates for the right to service and user-end tinkering, I'd love to see it be viable one day.