[YakAttack99]

With Fir IEM's a topic of discussion, can someone explain how one can be described as "energetic", and another "dark" and "bright"? No pun-intended with the dark bright comment. These descriptors can be confusing, although i would say its a pretty apt description of the KR5, regardless of the wording used.

I can see the presence in the 2k range the KR5 lacks, and the difference in treble. Maybe a better topic would be a comparison of bass. I'm just intrigued with how similar the two graphs are really. Especially with how many compliments the FW gets from its improvements of Jewel. For KR5 its bass bloat though. Fei wan is carried by brand? Maybe fans really enjoy it. I should try it and compare.

Here's photos of my KR5 from my travels

 

[drftr]

With Fir IEM's a topic of discussion, can someone explain how one can be described as "energetic", and another "dark" and "bright"? No pun-intended with the dark bright comment. These descriptors can be confusing, although i would say its a pretty apt description of the KR5, regardless of the wording used.
I can see the presence in the 2k range the KR5 lacks, and the difference in treble. Maybe a better topic would be a comparison of bass. I'm just intrigued with how similar the two graphs are really. Especially with how many compliments the FW gets from its improvements of Jewel. For KR5 its bass bloat though. Fei wan is carried by brand? Maybe fans really enjoy it. I should try it and compare.

Here's photos of my KR5 from my travels

To me Kr5 had too little upper mids and treble to shine through the "bass cloud", exactly as in your picture.

What do you mean with "Fei Wan is carried by what brand"? It's Aroma like Jewel and the label says so, so you're probably after something else?

drftr

 

[YakAttack99]

To me Kr5 had too little upper mids and treble to shine through the "bass cloud", exactly as in your picture.

This is very much agreeable. for me, the upper mids lend to a more relaxed listen, but the bass boost also adds the excitement to a lot of tracks to make them enjoyable for me. It makes for a unique listening experience for certain genres. Not unique so much so that its offensive, just enough to add a different flavor to my collection.

What do you mean with "Fei Wan is carried by what brand"? It's Aroma like Jewel and the label says so, so you're probably after something else?

I haven't heard Aroma products, so maybe i cant speak on the brand. Its a very popular brand in this forum. I don't really hear many negatives with it. If i mention KR5 or frontier series, bass-bloat will be a topic of discussion. This is not the same treatment. You understand, yes? I'm saying i haven't heard Aroma products, and I'm sure that with all the variables, KR5 and FW bass sound different, but is bass-bloat not a thing with Fei Wan? If i listen and i hear a similar bass, i would say "yes, bass-bloat is present". So maybe there's none, since no one mentions it. If people like the brand maybe they don't feel the bloat is a big enough issue with them to mention, or maybe there is none to speak of? Now I'm thinking i have to listen to FW!

 

[corentin]

Interesting discussions around "fun" sounding TOTL iems; between Fei Wan, Trifecta, Xe6 and Ravens for metal music only, what would you guys choose with either an Se300 or a hugo2?

 

[drftr]

This is very much agreeable. for me, the upper mids lend to a more relaxed listen, but the bass boost also adds the excitement to a lot of tracks to make them enjoyable for me. It makes for a unique listening experience for certain genres. Not unique so much so that its offensive, just enough to add a different flavor to my collection.

I haven't heard Aroma products, so maybe i cant speak on the brand. Its a very popular brand in this forum. I don't really hear many negatives with it. If i mention KR5 or frontier series, bass-bloat will be a topic of discussion. This is not the same treatment. You understand, yes? I'm saying i haven't heard Aroma products, and I'm sure that with all the variables, KR5 and FW bass sound different, but is bass-bloat not a thing with Fei Wan? If i listen and i hear a similar bass, i would say "yes, bass-bloat is present". So maybe there's none, since no one mentions it. If people like the brand maybe they don't feel the bloat is a big enough issue with them to mention, or maybe there is none to speak of? Now I'm thinking i have to listen to FW!

Part of my point was that FW may not be considered to have bass bloat because bass and treble are more evenly tilted so the bass would stand out less. But its bass may also be much faster and therefore for instance clogging up upper bass and lower mids less, which you can't read from a chart.

drftr

 

[YakAttack99]

Interesting discussions around "fun" sounding TOTL iems; between Fei Wan, Trifecta, Xe6 and Ravens for metal music only, what would you guys choose with either an Se300 or a hugo2?

If i compare my KR5 and trifecta; the drums have more volume and sound more realistic on the trifecta. I think the KR5 is more very analytical for this genre. guitars forwardness, drums presence and speed, combined with a wide stage give this a "in your face" sound, while at the same time, the staging is like you listen in a live studio session.

Maybe you can give this album a listen too if you enjoy metal. I recommend this album to people at many rocks bars here (there's no shortage of metal fans here in Greece). Not a big metal fan, but I'm starting to come around.

 

[YakAttack99]

Part of my point was that FW may not be considered to have bass bloat because bass and treble are more evenly tilted so the bass would stand out less. But its bass may also be much faster and therefore fir instance clogging up upper bass and lower mids less, which you can't read from a chart.

drftr

Yes. I understand. I could hear AND see this V shape. I think i should stop using this bloat term, because i thought it was used to describe an elevated lower midrange. You are using to to say it elapses the treble. This alaigns with what i hear about "lost detail", although these are just words, and personally i wouldn't use them since they don't describe what i hear in good enough detail (pun-intended). BTW i see your bass cloud comment earlier, don't think i drifted around it haha Glad you enjoy the photos and enjoy your music too this weekend!

Cheers,
Yaks

 

[Leto Dal]

If i compare my KR5 and trifecta; the drums have more volume and sound more realistic on the trifecta. I think the KR5 is more very analytical for this genre. guitars forwardness, drums presence and speed, combined with a wide stage give this a "in your face" sound, while at the same time, the staging is like you listen in a live studio session.

Maybe you can give this album a listen too if you enjoy metal. I recommend this album to people at many rocks bars here (there's no shortage of metal fans here in Greece). Not a big metal fan, but I'm starting to come around.

Thats great, somewhat reminds me of Meshuggah, huge thanks!

 

[LFC_SL]

Camelot sounds great for its price, only notes I have are less technical than Jewel, very large and was slightly uncomfortable in my ear, also had some driver pressure/flex. I own the Jewel, passed on the Camelot. If driver flex doesn’t bother you and larger IEMs are comfortable for your ears it’s probably worth trying I think it punches above its price point sound wise but it’s not quit as technical as the Jewel.

I went the other way. Passed on the Jewel and own the Camelot. Compared to Jewel, Camelot might seem not that technical. But it has all the details. Even though the stock cable was fine, moving to Eletech Illiad, improved everything on Camelot. Camelot is no slouch with all the details, nice treble extension and beautiful bass, timbre. It is not aggressive and not in your face.Very enjoyable to my ears.

For universal tips I use SS, S - or M at a push

The Camelot shells are large I think the extended nozzle and curve on the inside of the shell is as well thought out is possible.

So I found Camelot fitting to be fine.

The Ext is a universal that I could never get to fit right in contrast, felt like the monitor was being pushed out

The universal demo of the custom only Ultimate Ears Premier is another example of how not to design a universal. Short nozzle and bulbous shell

This is why I am 90% customs ha

 

[Deezel177]

With Fir IEM's a topic of discussion, can someone explain how one can be described as "energetic", and another "dark" and "bright"? No pun-intended with the dark bright comment. These descriptors can be confusing, although i would say its a pretty apt description of the KR5, regardless of the wording used.
I can see the presence in the 2k range the KR5 lacks, and the difference in treble. Maybe a better topic would be a comparison of bass. I'm just intrigued with how similar the two graphs are really. Especially with how many compliments the FW gets from its improvements of Jewel. For KR5 its bass bloat though. Fei wan is carried by brand? Maybe fans really enjoy it. I should try it and compare.

Here's photos of my KR5 from my travels

I have friends who've owned the Kr5, and their issues with it aren't so much bass bloat. Rather, it's the lack of upper-midrange presence to balance out the lows and highs, as @drftr mentioned. I think that's how you have darkness and brightness at the same time in the Kr5. It's dark because its lows are more present than its midrange, then there's a massive peak at 6kHz (also rising past the midrange), which is where its brightness comes in. One of those aforementioned friends owned the FW for a while too, and he says it's naturally got a quick, tight bass because of its drivers. These are things that don't show up in a graph.

The reason why the Fei Wan doesn't have a similar problem is because it has the midrange presence to cut through its lows and highs. In my describe IEMs with a single sentence post from a few weeks ago, I describe the FW as an energetic IEM anchored by a solid midrange. If it wasn't for that anchor, the FW would be a complete mess.

This is also a lesson in reading graphs and underestimating what may seem like "small" differences on paper. You mention seeing the differences in the mids and highs, and you focus on how similar they are in the bass. But, that's only because the two graphs are matched at the bass. If you instead matched them in the midrange, for example, they'd look wildly different. And, even if they were aligned at the lows, the differences in the mids and highs play a crucial role too. The disparity between the Kr5 and the FW at 1-3kHz is around 6dB. Because of the logarithmic nature of SPL, what that means is that you're hearing twice as much mids on the FW vs. the Kr5. So, it isn't a small difference. That's also the presence region, which determines how forwardly-positioned lead instruments are. If that region is sat below the bass (like it is on the Kr5), then you'll perceive an excess of bass relative to the lead instrument. Treble is also crucial in controlling the amount of bass bloat (or smoke) that gets out. So, with a difference of 9dB in the mid-treble (even though graphs there tend to be less accurate), it's no surprise that this disparity affects how you'd perceive the bass too.

I don't really hear many negatives with it.

A ton of people have called the FW too aggressive, sharp or bright on this thread. So, it's definitely not lacking criticism.

 

[hAbIrAbI]

Interesting discussions around "fun" sounding TOTL iems; between Fei Wan, Trifecta, Xe6 and Ravens for metal music only, what would you guys choose with either an Se300 or a hugo2?

I haven't heard the Raven but of the rest I personally would choose the Fei Wan. But I prefer more reference sound IEMS. Trifecta would be too boomy/imprecise in the bass for me and the Xe6 has to much bass + it bleeds into the mids and sounds veiled to me. Neither works for me with metal.

 

[Tristy]

Interesting discussions around "fun" sounding TOTL iems; between Fei Wan, Trifecta, Xe6 and Ravens for metal music only, what would you guys choose with either an Se300 or a hugo2?

Out of those I’d definitely choose Raven (although I haven’t heard Fei Wan, I’d imagine the treble energy could get a bit much for metal but I’m sure others can chime in on this). When I tried trifecta with my metal collection it didn’t do too well for my preferences. XE6 was better for metal but I’ve heard it’s actually amazing with the right chain. Raven was very good with metal from the get go, I think it’s relative balance compared to the others with a slight emphasis on the low end works well for metal.

 

[YakAttack99]

I have friends who've owned the Kr5, and their issues with it aren't so much bass bloat. Rather, it's the lack of upper-midrange presence to balance out the lows and highs, as @drftr mentioned. I think that's how you have darkness and brightness at the same time in the Kr5. It's dark because its lows are more present than its midrange, then there's a massive peak at 6kHz (also rising past the midrange), which is where its brightness comes in. One of those aforementioned friends owned the FW for a while too, and he says it's naturally got a quick, tight bass because of its drivers. These are things that don't show up in a graph.

The reason why the Fei Wan doesn't have a similar problem is because it has the midrange presence to cut through its lows and highs. In my describe IEMs with a single sentence post from a few weeks ago, I describe the FW as an energetic IEM anchored by a solid midrange. If it wasn't for that anchor, the FW would be a complete mess.

This is also a lesson in reading graphs and underestimating what may seem like "small" differences on paper. You mention seeing the differences in the mids and highs, and you focus on how similar they are in the bass. But, that's only because the two graphs are matched at the bass. If you instead matched them in the midrange, for example, they'd look wildly different. And, even if they were aligned at the lows, the differences in the mids and highs play a crucial role too. The disparity between the Kr5 and the FW at 1-3kHz is around 6dB. Because of the logarithmic nature of SPL, what that means is that you're hearing twice as much mids on the FW vs. the Kr5. So, it isn't a small difference. That's also the presence region, which determines how forwardly-positioned lead instruments are. If that region is sat below the bass (like it is on the Kr5), then you'll perceive an excess of bass relative to the lead instrument. Treble is also crucial in controlling the amount of bass bloat (or smoke) that gets out. So, with a difference of 9dB in the mid-treble (even though graphs there tend to be less accurate), it's no surprise that this disparity affects how you'd perceive the bass too.


A ton of people have called the FW too aggressive, sharp or bright on this thread. So, it's definitely not lacking criticism.

This is a very detailed response. My inexperience certainly shows here. While many things you said here were echoed previously in my thoughts, id like to highlight one thing drifter mentioned in his earlier response. The choice of drivers implemented is one important variable on sound. I'm sure that BA bass has a great impact on the entire presentation, because its dissipation means it will linger for less time, having the extenuated bass elapse less of the highs (if at all).

Such a design choice cant merely be overlooked as "coincidence". In this case, with people who have emphasis on driver implementation as design, its certainly intentional, and a major factor that i think cant be understated. So how much does this compensate for the difference in db you mention? when you look at the graph and talk about upper mids, i can agree that they are maybe attributing to lacking energy at times, however, i certainly wouldn't say they (vocals) are veiled or even recessed much at all. They might not be the MOST forward, but definitely not recessed. In fact, i think in many instances they can almost stand side-by-side with the bass in some tracks. If its the presence of something else residing in the the mids that is leading to this imbalance maybe i can agree, but certainly not vocals. I see no issue there. I think that it has no issues with its presentation. Personally, its missing nothing and has a fun, yet analytical, and balanced sound compared to many others.

I'm going to have to try more things. I think it would be repetitive and not constructive for me to keep sayin "everything's fine" when opinions have long been formed around this series of IEM. I take all graphs with a grain of salt after hearing Perpetua and seeing its graph. its left a burning desire to own one, and has had me rethinking graphs. I also want to hear TOTL technical monsters who maybe aren't as "fun" but are gripping with their technical prowess. Definitely have to try FW for sure. How are its technicalities?

Cheers,
Yaks

 

[drftr]

So how much does this compensate for the difference in db you mention?

It doesn't. 6 dB on DD is the same as 6 dB on BA. Still, your brain will take into account how slow the driver is. Like, if you hit a 50 Hz note on DD it will decay longer than when you hit the same note on BA. The result is that if you have multiple notes the blanks in between are filled in more when using DD, and because of that slowliness / incorrectness (pleasantness for yours truly) your brain may interpret that as more bass. The peaks are still 6 dB only though.

drftr

 

[BORUSSIA]

Hey guys, I'm currently demoing the Oriolus Monachaa, and I really like it. Compared to the Szalayi, it's much more resolving, has a bigger soundstage, and very good bass and subbass.

My only complaint is that it can be a bit harsh in the treble and can sound a bit sibilant in some recordings compared to the Szalayi. Does this will get better after the burn in? The only reason I returned the Szalayi was the fit. The Monachaa is better (smaller shell), but the nozzle is comparable and is causing some in-ear pressure and discomfort after 30 minutes. Do you have any tips, recommendations, or other ideas to address this problem?