The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.
Jan 26, 2024 at 11:32 AM Post #79,681 of 91,346
It's the same story every time a new UM flagship is announced. People get upset in Watercooler and other HF threads, and then... it sells out anyway. Nothing has changed, just rinse and repeat :D

I don't know how to justify high prices, though these do include a custom FirstTimes w/Shielding which some of you bought by itself for over $3k as an alternative to $6k Orpheus w/Shielding. I have talked to people who bought AP and upgraded their cable to FTS or Orpheus. I have seen people sell their UM MM to upgrade to AP, and I have a feeling the same might happen with people upgrading or maybe side-grading from AP to new Mason FS.
That's right. I had completely overlooked that aspect.

I mean, with the new Mason FS for 8500 USD you finally get First Times Shielding Pro, so not even the normal version, but a special "Pro" version that is either red or blue and that you can't even buy, with the normal version costing around 2500 USD. So considering the inflation, the price of 8500 USD is ultimately right after all, you probably don't feel the need to replace the cable.

Yes... but no, definitely not a good selling point for me.

Will you be receiving a set from UM for testing this time too?
 
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Jan 26, 2024 at 12:02 PM Post #79,682 of 91,346
I personally don't like to be forced into a bundled cable especially this pricey (same for AP/N30 bundle) even if you can always re-sell, this does not mean those are not superb products just not ones I'll purchase personnally
 
Jan 26, 2024 at 12:09 PM Post #79,683 of 91,346
It's a mentality
20240126_120729.jpg
 
Jan 26, 2024 at 12:13 PM Post #79,684 of 91,346
As someone who likes photograhy as a hoby for last 15 years I can freely say that photography is small inocent baby in comparison to audio gear consumerism :) I never had urge to have 10 unneeded cameras or lenses as I have for iems/headphones (but maybe that is personal?).
As a fellow a 20-year hobbyist and also was a semi-Pro photographer on and off for 10 Years, I agree.

Of course there are some passionate photo hobbyists that really do collect different bodies and lenses and it could get quite large but that is a very small niche compared to how everybody here is chasing the dragon in some way or another.
 
Jan 26, 2024 at 12:13 PM Post #79,685 of 91,346
Jan 26, 2024 at 12:18 PM Post #79,686 of 91,346
Jan 26, 2024 at 12:25 PM Post #79,687 of 91,346


I know, sorry, these aren't IEMs, I'm just way too excited not to share. I have lusted after these since they came out and waited for way too long. Here they are 🥰

First headphones and I'm in love. And I'm pretty sure it's not just honeymoon talking.



PS Keen-eyed among you might have noticed that these were on my profile pic ever since May when I first demoed them. And still had longer hair 😄

Love my Meze "woodie" 😍

DSC_0013.jpeg
 
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Jan 26, 2024 at 12:25 PM Post #79,688 of 91,346
As a fellow a 20-year hobbyist and also was a semi-Pro photographer on and off for 10 Years, I agree.

Of course there are some passionate photo hobbyists that really do collect different bodies and lenses and it could get quite large but that is a very small niche compared to how everybody here is chasing the dragon in some way or another.
All your points are valid. It is just quite different than my personal experience but maybe I’ve spent too much time around dentists and bird watchers. 😂 Also I haven’t socialized nearly as much with audio hobbyist as compared to photo and auto fans. I know too many photogs with $100k+ of gear and car people… those collections have no limits.

Again, all anecdotal on my side. I would say that gear acquisition syndrome can be a real sickness and put people in terrible financial and emotional states. No consumer product is going to fix all of ones’ ailments and meet unlimited expectations.
 
Jan 26, 2024 at 12:42 PM Post #79,689 of 91,346
Jan 26, 2024 at 12:44 PM Post #79,690 of 91,346
I have to return the TC44Pro I bought since it was absolutely killing my iPhone's battery. I don't think the side jack was super ergonomic either, but that's a separate issue. Not sure if I want to pick up something else like a BTR7 or if I'll just continue use the iPhone dongle + the 4.4 to 3.5mm adapter if I want to stick with 4.4mm cables. The HiBy R3 Gen II looks nice but it's probably a nonstarter since I use Apple Music.

Also eyeballing the 634ears IEMs now despite having been interested in the Project M the last few days. Trying to figure out how similar the LOAK 2 and MIROAK-II are. The green brass and black shell on the latter looks really good and it seems pretty cheaply priced after currency conversion, all things considered.
 
Jan 26, 2024 at 1:05 PM Post #79,691 of 91,346
It's the same story every time a new UM flagship is announced. People get upset in Watercooler and other HF threads, and then... it sells out anyway. Nothing has changed, just rinse and repeat :D

I don't know how to justify high prices, though these do include a custom FirstTimes w/Shielding which some of you bought by itself for over $3k as an alternative to $6k Orpheus w/Shielding. I have talked to people who bought AP and upgraded their cable to FTS or Orpheus. I have seen people sell their UM MM to upgrade to AP, and I have a feeling the same might happen with people upgrading or maybe side-grading from AP to new Mason FS.
They’re upset probably because of how fast they churn out a flagship after flagship. It was not long ago since Amber Pearl entered into the market. Now this, and in a 2-3 months time another one.
 
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Jan 26, 2024 at 1:22 PM Post #79,692 of 91,346
With regards to the new UM megacap IEM releases, I now feel a bit like I have to buy a new UM flagship to enjoy my N30 Amber Pearl for its power while the UM Amber Pearl IEM which I have actually plays extraordinarily well with my AK DAPs instead. It can do with very little power and sound amazing. In a nutshell, spending never ends which is what a company like UM needs in order to stay profitable. So what should irritate me personally I think is the fact that Amber Pearl IEM doesn't pair well with the corresponding DAP which it released with while I now need to splurge another $8K for one that would presumably blast on the N30.
I personally don't like to be forced into a bundled cable especially this pricey (same for AP/N30 bundle) even if you can always re-sell, this does not mean those are not superb products just not ones I'll purchase personnally
If someone else decides what is best for your ears then you know you're not taken seriously as a customer.

There's a couple of brands that allow you to buy their IEMs without a cable. Interestingly UM is one of them if you contact them directly. Canpur is another. Fitear as well if I recall correctly.

drftr
 
Jan 26, 2024 at 1:22 PM Post #79,693 of 91,346
All your points are valid. It is just quite different than my personal experience but maybe I’ve spent too much time around dentists and bird watchers. 😂 Also I haven’t socialized nearly as much with audio hobbyist as compared to photo and auto fans. I know too many photogs with $100k+ of gear and car people… those collections have no limits.

Again, all anecdotal on my side. I would say that gear acquisition syndrome can be a real sickness and put people in terrible financial and emotional states. No consumer product is going to fix all of ones’ ailments and meet unlimited expectations.

I totally agree that consumer capitalism has gone way overboard. Of course, I mean consumer capitalism places value on human lives only by how much they spend on things, as often as possible. It purposely ingrains in us a lack of happiness and constant want. Happy and content humans are not good in a consumer capitalist system. Our happiness and contentment needs to be as fleeting as possible, so we shop more to fill the hole.

Yes there are people who spend too much money in the photo hobby as well. I'm just saying from my experience in those circles, it's not quite on a level that audiophiles get. You tend to settle on a brand/system. Upgrade the body to a level - the lenses are relevant for many years and years. There are lenses that are decades old in overall design that are still considered pro. Glass outlast the bodies by a loooooooooong time. I'm a shopaholic and I love to shoot, but even I feel mostly content with the lenses I've accumulated, and the body I have. Sure I get some itches to upgrade the body often sometimes, but it's not like the constant hunger of audio gear. It's true someone may buy a lens or body they don't really need out of FOMO or consumer capitalism ingrained, but in photo groups I have not seen it like I do here.
 
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Jan 26, 2024 at 1:41 PM Post #79,694 of 91,346
really enjoying the new album from The Smile this AM, big music release day overall.
 
Jan 26, 2024 at 1:53 PM Post #79,695 of 91,346
My point is not that a new flagship has been released. But generally about this practice of offering several flagships one after the other at sharply rising prices while the old flagships immediately become obsolete. Hey we are talking about 8500 USD for the new flagship when Mentor as the previous co-flagship costs 4500 USD even though it was released a little over a year ago. Compared to the old Mason FS is an increase of +30%.

I had the obviously mistaken belief that Amber Peal with the proud price tag was an exception. But apparently this is now a common practice for UM. I will certainly never - not even if I become a milionaire - spend that much money on an IEM that is already technologically obsolete after a few months. It's a matter of principle for me. And I hate the idea that Mentor will be my last flagship from UM. I really love UM and Mentor and I don't want to think that after Mentor I will definitely not buy another UM flagship, keeping the desire and interest open. Also, a new Mason FS was never mentioned here, you obviously have special acquaintances if you not only knew about this release but could even hear it already.

Still, the fact remains that Amber Pearl has now become techonologically obsolete. Mason FS offers advanced technologies that were withheld in Amber Pearl. It is quite obvious that very soon the new Mentor will be released as Amber Pearl upgrade + new Mason FS's technologies. The way I see it, this is awful.
I nearly agree with everything you said. Given the rapid depreciation of IEMs, new flagship products should not become that expensive, but at minimum remain similarly priced as previous flagship models (unless logistical and labor costs increase).

In fact, many on this thread have spoken up against this recent practice, as they voiced the same concern most recently regarding the PMG Audio Apx, and before that, the Subtonic Storm and others. The upcoming Elysian flagship is likely going to be subject to the same scrutiny if it is over $5,000.

That being said, on the other side, regarding your third paragraph, I feel like Unique Melody shouldn't be faulted for withholding technology in this case (though still guilty of overpricing). I think it's an expected practice not to incorporate upcoming technologies developed for another flagship product line (especially in collaborations) since the R&D investment was for the Mason line, initiated on its own timeline. In this context, they integrated and innovated their latest technology from their most recently released Mentor flagship for the Amber Pearl, which seems to make sens to reserve their unreleased technology/R&D investments allocated for the intended product line. I believe Unique Melody used/modded the Mentor technology for the Amber Pearl which seems to be good faith (but the overpricing of the Amber Pearl deserves scrutiny).

I don't want to defend Unique Melody (or any company) that is overpricing their products. I do feel Unique Melody was guilty of overpricing, but innocent for some of the other things.

But I don't want to unfairly accuse Unique Melody overprices everything, so I'll acknowledge that the pricing of the Multiverse Mentor appears reasonable as a "genuine" flagship. While I don't know how much their markup was after the quality of components, quality of sound, labor costs, and R&D expenses, I feel like the Mentor at $3,599 might even have a lower retail markup than some other flagships from the pricey brands. (Note: I was influenced by a comment on YouTube stating that the most expensive BA drivers may cost around $150 per unit, but I cannot verify its accuracy.) But regardless, unlike most other flagships, the MM comes with a properly-matched high-quality PWA cable imo (whereas other flagships seem to just find a generic cable from a reputable brand like Eletech (or worse), costing buyers a lot more to self-match cables). As for quality of sound and R&D investment, I think the Mentor employs authentic refined tuning without gimmickry, convincing me of their genuine R&D investment in it. In my opinion, I think the Mentor was actually one of the better examples of flagship pricing.

Of course, for the pricing of the Amber Pearl and the Mason series, I concur with you, and they definitely deserve to be scrutinized.
 
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