The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.

[firesign]

I can appreciate the need for coherence too. We're all prioritising different qualities on our search.

Yeah, unfortunately, or fortunately, Fred (Alambic Ears) is already working overtime to meet demand and I can't see him offering a unit to tour at this point. He has developed quite a following in the porta-fi French community which he is doing his best to satisfy. I don't want to dig up recent controversy, but I think with regards to tours, as a (somewhat closed) community, we have to temper expectations of small businesses, one man operations especially, in that regard. Regardless, if you do ever make it to a London Canjam, I'll have my sets with me so you can listen over a coffee.

How is that Mentawai vs the Neon Pro?

For me the most important thing is the tuning, and I find the Neon Pro tuning (bass switch off) perfect for my taste.

Has the Mentawai a similar tuning profile?

 

[552609]

Haha.

Different strokes! You heavily influenced my initial interest in DD timbre & dynamics but as my tastes have changed a DD has become less critical in the low end. I summarised it the other day: whatever it is - DD or BA - that offers a good balance of visceral impact and texture, that's what I'll go for.

You should check out the Mentawai. One 10mm DD, 6BA, 4EST. Excellent organic tonality & timbre and a full bass presence.

I tried to get a hold of a Mentawai, and there's a pretty heavy language barrier there with Google translate. I decided not to do it with the wait times, international shipping, etc.

 

[Rockwell75]

Ever tried the AMT 16?

No. What brand?

I have always thought that way, and I have been very reluctant to try new full-BA IEMs since I have had some like that (S8F, Andromeda, U12T) and have not convinced me their timbre and their bass.

However, I have tried again with the Neon Pro, and I have been surprised. If it is not because of the enormous control of the bass it has, I find it hard to believe that there is no DD inside the capsules. In fact I have looked inside them several times, full of curiosity, because I still don't believe it 100%.

Perfect control is a hallmark of good BA bass-- that's essentially it's main selling feature. In addition to a love of DDs generally I'm particularly fond of DDs, like those found in Campfire IEMs-- but I would also place Sony's DD and Empire's also in this category--, that are a little slower in decay and to my ear a more unalloyed representation of pure DD sound vs. those DDs that are more fine tuned to mimic the speed of BA drivers. With BAs what I tend to miss, and what no BA bass has ever been able to fully replicate for me, is the heft & weight (viz a viz ability to move air) as well as the more natural timbre and decay that a good DD can provide. I won't insist that one is "objectively" preferable however in my experience there are 1) certain signature differences that are a simple consequence of physics and thus unavoidable and that 2) some people's preferences will place them decidedly in one camp or the other.

 

[gLer]

My reaction whenever I read about some new game changing IEM that is allegedly re-defining the market before finding out that it's all BA:

Mine is quite similar:

I find it hard to believe that there is no DD inside the capsules.

If I had a dollar every time I heard that...I might even be able to afford one of these "game changers" and still be able to feed my family.

 

[ian91]

I tried to get a hold of a Mentawai, and there's a pretty heavy language barrier there with Google translate. I decided not to do it with the wait times, international shipping, etc.

Good things are worth pursuing and in my view, waiting for. The language barrier does exist but it isn't insurmountable. I never once had to use Google translate, often Fred would reply in English using Google translate, so details did need to be clarified from time to time. It's just the reality of dealing with an individual who doesn't have English as their first language. To support small or growing business is what I would prefer to do at this point. There are enough luxury brands laughing to the bank that at this point it feels like I'm not doing myself any favours by purchasing from them. Not least because my wallet (and wife, if she knew...) would tremble at the expense.

 

[firesign]

If I had a dollar every time I heard that...I might even be able to afford one of these "game changers" and still be able to feed my family.

Me too, until now

 

[maegnificant]

No. What brand?

https://www.linsoul.com/products/goldplanar-gl-amt16

Goldplanar, 1399$ with the code that is displayed on Linsoul, it still works. Few people tried it, most were impressed. Five nozzles come with it that change the treble. Sub-Bass seems to be on the lighter side. It's an AMT driver and people say the mids are extremely good. I have not tried it due to the high price. Still waiting if I get a used one at any point

 

[firesign]

No. What brand?



Perfect control is a hallmark of good BA bass-- that's essentially it's main selling feature. In addition to a love of DDs generally I'm particularly fond of DDs, like those found in Campfire IEMs-- but I would also place Sony's DD and Empire's also in this category--, that are a little slower in decay and to my ear a more unalloyed representation of pure DD sound vs. those DDs that are more fine tuned to mimic the speed of BA drivers. With BAs what I tend to miss, and what no BA bass has ever been able to fully replicate for me, is the heft & weight (viz a viz ability to move air) as well as the more natural timbre and decay that a good DD can provide. I won't insist that one is "objectively" preferable however in my experience there are 1) certain signature differences that are a simple consequence of physics and thus unavoidable and that 2) some people's preferences will place them decidedly in one camp or the other.

I know what you say. I have an EE with 2 W9 and I understand perfectly

 

[gLer]

Me too, until now

Would you say it has the same physical air movement, naturally slower decay, and visceral impact (movement) of a real DD diaphragm, or is it mostly a simulated approximation of all three? And I mean that literally, as in would it pass as a DD in a blind listening test? Because while I fully appreciate and respect excellent BA bass - the texture, speed, control and even, on occasion, timbre - I'm yet to hear one that can satisfy the very simple, primal 'bass drop' feeling of a good DD.

Edit: generally speaking, BA's lack most in sub-bass weight and extension. I've heard plenty with an almost satisfying midbass impact, but none that can pass as a DD for sub-bass.

 

[ian91]

How is that Mentawai vs the Neon Pro?

For me the most important thing is the tuning, and I find the Neon Pro tuning (bass switch off) perfect for my taste.

Has the Mentawai a similar tuning profile?

Switch off NP is drier, thinner and brighter in the lower treble than Mentawai. Mentawai is W, with an emphasis on low end and a full vocal presence, it's a much richer tonality. Similar to Traillii tuning but without such a significant lower treble / uppermid cut and much greater weight and less transparency.

I think if you've found perfection with NP, just enjoy that!

 

[552609]

No. What brand?



Perfect control is a hallmark of good BA bass-- that's essentially it's main selling feature. In addition to a love of DDs generally I'm particularly fond of DDs, like those found in Campfire IEMs-- but I would also place Sony's DD and Empire's also in this category--, that are a little slower in decay and to my ear a more unalloyed representation of pure DD sound vs. those DDs that are more fine tuned to mimic the speed of BA drivers. With BAs what I tend to miss, and what no BA bass has ever been able to fully replicate for me, is the heft & weight (viz a viz ability to move air) as well as the more natural timbre and decay that a good DD can provide. I won't insist that one is "objectively" preferable however in my experience there are 1) certain signature differences that are a simple consequence of physics and thus unavoidable and that 2) some people's preferences will place them decidedly in one camp or the other.

I'm trying very hard to resist Campfire's Earthday sale right now. 22% off used IEMs.

 

[firesign]

Would you say it has the same physical air movement, naturally slower decay, and visceral impact (movement) of a real DD diaphragm, or is it mostly a simulated approximation of all three? And I mean that literally, as in would it pass as a DD in a blind listening test? Because while I fully appreciate and respect excellent BA bass - the texture, speed, control and even, on occasion, timbre - I'm yet to hear one that can satisfy the very simple, primal 'bass drop' feeling of a good DD.

Compared to a W9, obviously not.
Compared to other lighter DDs like the one from Mest, or other models with a non-basshead bass and a neutral tonality, I would say that it can happen.

As I said I have hated all the full-BA IEMs that I have tried so far for this (until now).

 

[Scubadevils]

No, really, can you put them in your and jump up and down and see if the drivers pop or they fall out please? I need new running TWS and hate most of what's on the market and the Noble Mystique has driver pop when running.

I’ll give it a try when doing some exercises shortly - see if they can withstand dreaded burpees

 

[gLer]

Compared to a W9, obviously not.
Compared to other lighter DDs like the one from Mest, or other models with a non-basshead bass and a neutral tonality, I would say that it can happen.

As I said I have hated all the full-BA IEMs that I have tried so far for this (until now).

Thanks, that pretty much answers my question. Z1R is my 'bass neutral', even though I don't consider myself an out-and-out basshead

 

[ian91]

Would you say it has the same physical air movement, naturally slower decay, and visceral impact (movement) of a real DD diaphragm, or is it mostly a simulated approximation of all three? And I mean that literally, as in would it pass as a DD in a blind listening test? Because while I fully appreciate and respect excellent BA bass - the texture, speed, control and even, on occasion, timbre - I'm yet to hear one that can satisfy the very simple, primal 'bass drop' feeling of a good DD.

Personally, I can tell that the NP has BA bass as textures are more easily discerned and density takes a back seat and low end 'atmosphere' and dimension is emphasised. Impact is very good and just as fun as a DD for me. I think where people (and maybe you and I) differ is the need for that density and volume of air. Dependent on the DD and the tuning, that movement of air can be ill-defined and obscure transient detail in low string replay. That's why BA bass has a place for me in my stable, not least because a well implemented BA treble can achieve much better extension and top end detail typically than a similarly tuned DD.

I'm generalising alot, but that's my experience.