The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.

[552609]

The problem with Qobuz is that Tidal recommends a lot of playlists, artists, and tracks that largely match for me. I'm always discovering new music that I like, and it's fun to search for it. Qobuz doesn't allow me to do all that. That's why I currently stick with Tidal.

Yeah, and as I found out last night, Qobuz doesn't have one of my favorite bands. Deal breaker.

 

[CodenameBK201]

Many of the best known, but I find Xelastec the best. I unfortunately only have the Xe6 for testing without any accessories. The standard module is certainly installed.



I still find the bass bloated, veiled, slow. I can quite understand how this can be very pleasing. I also understand the comparison with the sound in clubs. However, I wonder which clubs we are talking about here. Because I assure you that in the best techno clubs in Berlin such a sound would never, never be found! The most I can imagine is that the Xe6 sounds like some speakers that you find in raves of kids who just let the bass explode because they think this could somehow provide even more "cool" feelings. So I also understand the "fun" factor and unique character of the Xe6.

I have to be honest, per sé I also like such a sound – somehow. And I could even imagine having the Xe6 in my collection. The problem here for me personally are three things: 1. The extremely high expectations (IEM of the year 2022 !!!). 2. the extremely high price compared to other TOTL, which are more versatil. 3. if I can overlook the first two problems, this one unfortunately not, it is an absolute NO-GO: sound leakage is already at moderate volume quite noticeable and annoying if someone is in the same room and wants to work. I tested it with the iPhone: at 70db-75db you can hear the Xe6 from my office even in the corridor. That just doesn't work and for me this is my deal-breaker ever. With this last point, the Xe6 falls together with the Rn6 directly out of my radar, period. I wish I hadn't sold the Trifecta so quickly... after Easter I'll contact my dealer and I hope I can have the Trifecta for the same price I sold it for…


That would actually be great. Now that I have Tidal, I understand how MQA can distort the sound, and I don't like that ...

Trifecta is still on my list, provided I can find it secondhand. I know expectations vary for everyone, but for me, at least, having used it in-person, as much as I liked the sound, I actually preferred the physical build of the more inexpensive Solaris better, enough so that it'd be hard for me mentally to justify getting Trifecta at full price. That's not a slight on anyone, it's just personal experience.

Comparatively, between the included cable, the module capability, the build, and the customer experience, I have no reservations about recommending RN6. It's an excellent package overall, arguably moreso than xe6 if you're looking for more clarity and less bass. Zero driver flex, a full metal shell without seam lines, and a solid cable that doesn't warrant upgrading out of the box, in my mind, render RN6 a better buy than Trifecta in terms of overall value; but hey, if you don't like the sound signature, that means nothing, and no amount of ergonomics or accessories is going to convince you otherwise.

That said, I fully acknowledge the sound leakage on the Fir sets. That's real, and how much it bothers you depends on your usage scenario. For me 10 years ago, where I was constantly commuting on the subway, it'd be an absolute deal-breaker, and was why at the time I bought the LCD-XC instead of the LCD-X, despite knowing that open back rendered a better soundstage. That said, modern me spends 99% of his time listening at a desk in a quiet room, so it isn't affecting me one way or the other currently, and even in an office environment, it's low enough that it's not terribly concerning to me. That's not at all to dismiss your claims, just to reiterate the constant adage here of "your mileage may vary".

 

[Amadeo Nospherathu]

Many of the best known, but I find Xelastec the best. I unfortunately only have the Xe6 for testing without any accessories. The standard module is certainly installed.



I still find the bass bloated, veiled, slow. I can quite understand how this can be very pleasing. I also understand the comparison with the sound in clubs. However, I wonder which clubs we are talking about here. Because I assure you that in the best techno clubs in Berlin such a sound would never, never be found! The most I can imagine is that the Xe6 sounds like some speakers that you find in raves of kids who just let the bass explode because they think this could somehow provide even more "cool" feelings. So I also understand the "fun" factor and unique character of the Xe6.

I have to be honest, per sé I also like such a sound – somehow. And I could even imagine having the Xe6 in my collection. The problem here for me personally are three things: 1. The extremely high expectations (IEM of the year 2022 !!!). 2. the extremely high price compared to other TOTL, which are more versatil. 3. if I can overlook the first two problems, this one unfortunately not, it is an absolute NO-GO: sound leakage is already at moderate volume quite noticeable and annoying if someone is in the same room and wants to work. I tested it with the iPhone: at 70db-75db you can hear the Xe6 from my office even in the corridor. That just doesn't work and for me this is my deal-breaker ever. With this last point, the Xe6 falls together with the Rn6 directly out of my radar, period. I wish I hadn't sold the Trifecta so quickly... after Easter I'll contact my dealer and I hope I can have the Trifecta for the same price I sold it for…


That would actually be great. Now that I have Tidal, I understand how MQA can distort the sound, and I don't like that ...

I agree with you, I also don't share the general enthusiasm. I could forgive the IEMs for their amount of bass, but the overall sound quality... When we talk about detail, control, realism, it's hard to find headphones that are worse.

 

[phiemon]

Trifecta is still on my list, provided I can find it secondhand. I know expectations vary for everyone, but for me, at least, having used it in-person, as much as I liked the sound, I actually preferred the physical build of the more inexpensive Solaris better, enough so that it'd be hard for me mentally to justify getting Trifecta at full price. That's not a slight on anyone, it's just personal experience.

Comparatively, between the included cable, the module capability, the build, and the customer experience, I have no reservations about recommending RN6. It's an excellent package overall, arguably moreso than xe6 if you're looking for more clarity and less bass. Zero driver flex, a full metal shell without seam lines, and a solid cable that doesn't warrant upgrading out of the box, in my mind, render RN6 a better buy than Trifecta in terms of overall value; but hey, if you don't like the sound signature, that means nothing, and no amount of ergonomics or accessories is going to convince you otherwise.

That said, I fully acknowledge the sound leakage on the Fir sets. That's real, and how much it bothers you depends on your usage scenario. For me 10 years ago, where I was constantly commuting on the subway, it'd be an absolute deal-breaker, and was why at the time I bought the LCD-XC instead of the LCD-X, despite knowing that open back rendered a better soundstage. That said, modern me spends 99% of his time listening at a desk in a quiet room, so it isn't affecting me one way or the other currently, and even in an office environment, it's low enough that it's not terribly concerning to me. That's not at all to dismiss your claims, just to reiterate the constant adage here of "your mileage may vary".

Yes, I am of the opinion that Campfire Audio has lost its mind with such prices. The new Solaris is just too expensive for what it has to offer. Supermoon costs half and it has a much better tuning and technicalities for me. Meanwhile, I would certainly never pay the OVP of Trifecta: 3999 EUR.

If the Xe6 didn't have such a massive sound leakage, I would have seriously considered it, of course used for a good price. But not like this. When I listen to music, I want to be versatile and then listen to it whenever or wherever I feel like it. That wouldn't be possible if someone worked in the same room where I listen to music. Or if I should be traveling on the train. Very pity!

 

[maegnificant]

Yes, I am of the opinion that Campfire Audio has lost its mind with such prices. The new Solaris is just too expensive for what it has to offer. Supermoon costs half and it has a much better tuning and technicalities for me. Meanwhile, I would certainly never pay the OVP of Trifecta: 3999 EUR.

If the Xe6 didn't have such a massive sound leakage, I would have seriously considered it, of course used for a good price. But not like this. When I listen to music, I want to be versatile and then listen to it whenever or wherever I feel like it. That wouldn't be possible if someone worked in the same room where I listen to music. Or if I should be traveling on the train. Very pity!

I am of the opinion and have made the experience thaz most of the special qualities that these high end IEMs posess, they are almost inaudible when on the move/in the train etc.

So I would still only listen to them seriously in a quiet environment for most of the time.

 

[MRT-Man]

Many of the best known, but I find Xelastec the best. I unfortunately only have the Xe6 for testing without any accessories. The standard module is certainly installed.

Some thoughts:
- Personally I find the Xelastec takes too much off the treble. I hear notably more top-end with the stock silicone tip
- The modules do make a big difference. My personal favorite is black, which dials down the bass a bit from the stock silver
- Cable might make a difference. I use OTL which adds some treble sparkle and does an amazing job with the bass
- Agree it might not be worth it at full retail price, but there are lots of used ones out there
- The fact you’re getting a lot of sound leakage makes me think that maybe you’re not getting a good fit?

But anyway, we all hear things differently. Maybe it’s just not right for you!

 

[Eoin]

I agree with you, I also don't share the general enthusiasm. I could forgive the IEMs for their amount of bass, but the overall sound quality... When we talk about detail, control, realism, it's hard to find headphones that are worse.

I agree 100% with you. I was also surprised how and why the XE was so well received.

 

[CodenameBK201]

Some thoughts:
- Personally I find the Xelastec takes too much off the treble. I hear notably more top-end with the stock silicone tip
- The modules do make a big difference. My personal favorite is black, which dials down the bass a bit from the stock silver
- Cable might make a difference. I use OTL which adds some treble sparkle and does an amazing job with the bass
- Agree it might not be worth it at full retail price, but there are lots of used ones out there
- The fact you’re getting a lot of sound leakage makes me think that maybe you’re not getting a good fit?

But anyway, we all hear things differently. Maybe it’s just not right for you!

Depends on the modules too? I've got a solid seal on my radons, with the red modules, and my wife pointed out she could hear my music across the room. It was a dead quiet living room, with all the windows closed, but still, it was noticeable. It's sort of the inevitable tradeoff. Wider soundstage, more open air flow, and a literal open kinetic bass driver, and I'm not at all surprised there's sound leakage. I imagine the sound would be significantly different (and narrower) if they didn't leak as much.

 

[phiemon]

I agree with you, I also don't share the general enthusiasm. I could forgive the IEMs for their amount of bass, but the overall sound quality... When we talk about detail, control, realism, it's hard to find headphones that are worse.

Some thoughts:
- Personally I find the Xelastec takes too much off the treble. I hear notably more top-end with the stock silicone tip
- The modules do make a big difference. My personal favorite is black, which dials down the bass a bit from the stock silver
- Cable might make a difference. I use OTL which adds some treble sparkle and does an amazing job with the bass
- Agree it might not be worth it at full retail price, but there are lots of used ones out there
- The fact you’re getting a lot of sound leakage makes me think that maybe you’re not getting a good fit?

But anyway, we all hear things differently. Maybe it’s just not right for you!

The fit is perfect. I checked this too.

I agree 100% with you. I was also surprised how and why the XE was so well received.

Depends on the modules too? I've got a solid seal on my radons, with the red modules, and my wife pointed out she could hear my music across the room. It was a dead quiet living room, with all the windows closed, but still, it was noticeable. It's sort of the inevitable tradeoff. Wider soundstage, more open air flow, and a literal open kinetic bass driver, and I'm not at all surprised there's sound leakage. I imagine the sound would be significantly different (and narrower) if they didn't leak as much.

I just discovered and listened to this complex track (and album) with Tidal: https://tidal.com/browse/track/152212749 I literally felt a mystical experience with Ronin (+ First Times). I was relatively distracted at the PC and suddenly I had to leave everything and... just listen! Viking Ragnar topped it even more unexpectedly. Man Viking Ragnar always knows how to surprise me. With First Times just has to be my endgame for ever. How else could you improve on something like that?! Anyway, then out of curiosity I unpacked the Xe6 again and sorry, it just doesn't manage to keep up: the technicalities are comparatively so bad that this track sounds like compressed. The difference is like 1080p vs 4k or 320 kbps vs Hi-Res. This track literally "reveals itself" and it takes you somewhere else with the other two!

 

[CodenameBK201]

The fit is perfect. I checked this too.




I just discovered and listened to this complex track (and album) with Tidal: https://tidal.com/browse/track/152212749 I literally felt a mystical experience with Ronin (+ First Times). I was relatively distracted at the PC and suddenly I had to leave everything and... just listen! Viking Ragnar topped it even more unexpectedly. Man Viking Ragnar always knows how to surprise me. With First Times just has to be my endgame for ever. How else could you improve on something like that?! Anyway, then out of curiosity I unpacked the Xe6 again and sorry, it just doesn't manage to keep up: the technicalities are comparatively so bad that this track sounds like compressed. The difference is like 1080p vs 4k or 320 kbps vs Hi-Res. This track literally "reveals itself" and it takes you somewhere else with the other two!

Sure, but this is less clear-cut. I wouldn't take this as a case of "more detailed=better", but rather a case of sacrificing one thing for another. In my experience, the more "fun" tuned a set is, the less technical it is, and vice-versa. That's not to say there aren't sets that try to do both (Empire Ears Odyssey), but you ultimately only have 100% of something to give. Add one portion to something, you have to take away another. It's why RN6 is sort of my happy place sweet spot as far as "reference-sounding" goes: it's technical and detailed, but yeah, still bassy, even on the most open modules, enough so that it doesn't come off as clinical. It's very much a Fir house sound, and in fairness, the xe6, by definition, are not resolution monsters: they're tuned to be fun sounding and head-bopping, much like my Xanadus. Comparatively, Noble, to me, has always had more of a clinical, reference sound. That's not at all a slight on them--I still adore my K10s--but with all the sets I tried from Noble at CanJam, they all kept that same vein in terms of tuning. Whether you like that or not is going to depend on your listening preferences, your mood, and what you're listening to on them.
I'd still encourage you to give the Radons a listen, as if you like elements of the xe6, the complaints you have about bass and lack of clarity would seem to be remedied on the rn6, but ultimately the house sound signature may not be as much to your preference. I know I'm probably the odd man out though; for all the complaints about how xe6 tuning took some time to get used to, I was with it right away. Comparatively, it was the more neutral, supposedly more audiophile-friendly radons that I initially hated before I ultimately fell in love with them (side note: I was so swept up in Daft Punk's Random Access Memories album last night, my wife came in the room, waved, walked right up to me and caused me to flinch because I was so caught up in the music).

I am kind of surprised you want to go back to Trifecta though. If anything I don't picture those at all as being resolution monsters, but more akin to the xe6 fun tuning.

 

[MatW]

Yeah, and as I found out last night, Qobuz doesn't have one of my favorite bands. Deal breaker.

I wonder if that could be a regional difference. Qobuz used to have a smaller catalogue indeed, but nowadays they have almost the same content as Tidal for my music, certainly for recent releases. And I don't listen that much to mainstream stuff, mostly metal.

 

[phiemon]

Sure, but this is less clear-cut. I wouldn't take this as a case of "more detailed=better", but rather a case of sacrificing one thing for another. In my experience, the more "fun" tuned a set is, the less technical it is, and vice-versa. That's not to say there aren't sets that try to do both (Empire Ears Odyssey), but you ultimately only have 100% of something to give. Add one portion to something, you have to take away another. It's why RN6 is sort of my happy place sweet spot as far as "reference-sounding" goes: it's technical and detailed, but yeah, still bassy, even on the most open modules, enough so that it doesn't come off as clinical. It's very much a Fir house sound, and in fairness, the xe6, by definition, are not resolution monsters: they're tuned to be fun sounding and head-bopping, much like my Xanadus. Comparatively, Noble, to me, has always had more of a clinical, reference sound. That's not at all a slight on them--I still adore my K10s--but with all the sets I tried from Noble at CanJam, they all kept that same vein in terms of tuning.

No, you misunderstood me. Personally, it's not about "more detailed = better". Rather, my question concerns which IEM I can consider special in that it allows me to discover music in a new way that evokes strong positive emotions in me. This in turn is related to what mood I am in when I listen to music, or when I listen to music. It's really incredible how the same music can sound completely different depending on which IEM you use! In this context, technicalities can play a secondary role if that condition is met. Because, if I were to judge only by technicalities, I would have sold Mentor now that I have Ronin. By the way, Ronin has for me not only a better tuning, but also technicalities (especially imaging, bass and mids); on the other hand, I certainly find Mentor better in terms of soundstage, sub-bass and BCD. Nevertheless, the technicalities play an important role for me personally, at least for now.

Whether you like that or not is going to depend on your listening preferences, your mood, and what you're listening to on them.

... on this background, I totally agree with you here!

I'd still encourage you to give the Radons a listen, as if you like elements of the xe6, the complaints you have about bass and lack of clarity would seem to be remedied on the rn6, but ultimately the house sound signature may not be as much to your preference. I know I'm probably the odd man out though; for all the complaints about how xe6 tuning took some time to get used to, I was with it right away. Comparatively, it was the more neutral, supposedly more audiophile-friendly radons that I initially hated before I ultimately fell in love with them (side note: I was so swept up in Daft Punk's Random Access Memories album last night, my wife came in the room, waved, walked right up to me and caused me to flinch because I was so caught up in the music).

I was really interested in the Rn6, but after the pretty bad experience with the Xe6 about the sound leakage, it's out of the question for me - even if it should top everything I know so far.

I am kind of surprised you want to go back to Trifecta though. If anything I don't picture those at all as being resolution monsters, but more akin to the xe6 fun tuning.

Trifecta would definitely not be my first choice at the moment, but only something complementary should I want the full body analog sound and immense soundstage.

 

[claud W]

More XE6 feels, today


M

Have you tried comparing the stock Fir Rn6 cable to the stock Xe6 cable on the Xe6?

 

[SoundFlow]

Greetings! First and foremost, thank you for being a centralized source for tons of knowledge and impressions! I’ve spent the better part of a month or so of my down time going through this thread and figured, why not jump in and be part of the gang!

So, I’m a long time lurker from the headphone realm. Recently found myself curious about IEM’s for their versatility and convenience, so I’m doing my research as I go. I’ve kinda landed somewhere in the XE6, Raven, RN6 area for what I’d most likely enjoy. First time I’ve seen anything about sound leakage from the recent FiR releases unless I missed it going through all 10 million posts . What exactly is that referring to? My open backs leak a lot and ideally I don’t want that from an IEM.

Thanks!!

 

[552609]

I wonder if that could be a regional difference. Qobuz used to have a smaller catalogue indeed, but nowadays they have almost the same content as Tidal for my music, certainly for recent releases. And I don't listen that much to mainstream stuff, mostly metal.

Maybe, but they're a pretty popular band and both Tidal and Spotify have them.