[552609]

Ah that will never happen in this industry. Good for them, that people want their product, I guess

They're American. People have sued here for FAR less haha. We have such a sue happy culture. Time will tell I suppose - I'm certain they did the math before releasing the Astral Plane - just like Ford did with the Pinto even though they knew they exploded. Legal fees for deaths were cheaper than cancelling an entire product line.

 

[Lumithium]

I am a bit out of the loop here, but I don't quite understand what makes an IEM musical. Specifically the "feels" part.

For example, for electronic music kicks, a common way of making a base kick sound is to start off with a really high frequency, and quickly drops to a low frequency, this makes the bulk of the transient kick sound, and then you have the body thump that has lower frequency than that, followed by a tail with even lower frequency.

IEM without too much sub-bass emphasis over mid-bass will sound just fine and clean. Too much sub-bass will emphasize the body and tail too much, and can result in the kick sounding blunt. If the bass rolls off too soon, the kick can sound choppy, due to lack of body and tail.

However, if the tracks calls for sub-bass rumble, the IEM with a sub-bass emphasis will give off the most rumble feel. The neutral one in between, and the one with sub-bass roll off being the worst.

I can see both the neutral IEM and the sub-bass IEM being musical here, depending on how you want the track to sound.

A lot of IEMs I can see being musical on certain genres. E g. Mentor offering better feels at electronic / some black metal etc due to the controlled bass, while being boring at Jazz, oldies. Trifecta dipped upper mids / lower treble helps to bring focus to the bass and mids, which can offer more feels in genres like Jazz, however, the bass is a downer in fast paced music (electronic, extreme metal), and unique sound signature can be problematic in complex tracks when the overall tonal balance is more important.

Is there specific criteria on musical? Or is it a personal feel kind of thing?

 

[Sebastien Chiu]

@PLUSSOUND celebrates their 11th anniversary this year - enjoy some shots taken by me of their cable launched today to commemorate this moment!

 

[ian91]

I am a bit out of the loop here, but I don't quite understand what makes an IEM musical. Specifically the "feels" part.

For example, for electronic music kicks, a common way of making a base kick sound is to start off with a really high frequency, and quickly drops to a low frequency, this makes the bulk of the transient kick sound, and then you have the body thump that has lower frequency than that, followed by a tail with even lower frequency.

IEM without too much sub-bass emphasis over mid-bass will sound just fine and clean. Too much sub-bass will emphasize the body and tail too much, and can result in the kick sounding blunt. If the bass rolls off too soon, the kick can sound choppy, due to lack of body and tail.

However, if the tracks calls for sub-bass rumble, the IEM with a sub-bass emphasis will give off the most rumble feel. The neutral one in between, and the one with sub-bass roll off being the worst.

I can see both the neutral IEM and the sub-bass IEM being musical here, depending on how you want the track to sound.

A lot of IEMs I can see being musical on certain genres. E g. Mentor offering better feels at electronic / some black metal etc due to the controlled bass, while being boring at Jazz, oldies. Trifecta dipped upper mids / lower treble helps to bring focus to the bass and mids, which can offer more feels in genres like Jazz, however, the bass is a downer in fast paced music (electronic, extreme metal), and unique sound signature can be problematic in complex tracks when the overall tonal balance is more important.

Is there specific criteria on musical? Or is it a personal feel kind of thing?

As with everything in this hobby it's very personal. If I had to define 'musicality' it's the ability to create, to my preference and not always authentically, the atmosphere, dynamics and emphasis that can move me. A combination of both tonal and technical properties that can produce an emotional response and what that requires (e.g. authentic timbre, resolution, staging) often depends on the genre I'm listening to and even my emotional affect on that day! I also consider it the 'X' factor that I search for when buying IEMs/earbuds.

What produces that X-factor at the interface of 'hobbyist-device-library' will be different for everyone. Having said that, sharing our own experiences and preferences can help us all find that sweet spot.

 

[RTodd]

As with everything in this hobby it's very personal. If I had to define 'musicality' it's the ability to create, to my preference and not always authentically, the atmosphere, dynamics and emphasis that can move me. A combination of both tonal and technical properties that can produce an emotional response and what that requires (e.g. authentic timbre, resolution, staging) often depends on the genre I'm listening to and even my emotional affect on that day! I also consider it the 'X' factor that I search for when buying IEMs/earbuds.

What produces that X-factor at the interface of 'hobbyist-device-library' will be different for everyone. Having said that, sharing our own experiences and preferences can help us all find that sweet spot.

Musicality

Muse of psychoacoustic portrayals of living
Brush of tiny hairs and shivers
Mentor of thoughts
Fades memory
Whispers connection

 

[ian91]

Musicality

Muse of psychoacoustic portrayals of living
Brush of tiny hairs and shivers
Mentor for thoughts
Sometimes fades memory
Sometimes whispers connection

Love your poetry. Really catches the feeling!

 

[gLer]

What produces that X-factor at the interface of 'hobbyist-device-library' will be different for everyone.

Very good point this. It's a moving target, and different for most people. Finding someone who has a similar take on musicality is very rare indeed.

 

[Deezel177]

‘Just got home after a lovely, lovely meet with several of our beloved Coolers. I’m sure tons and tons more photos and impressions will be coming tomorrow (and over the next following days), but today was a super nice preview to the Pandemonium that I’m sure will be CanJam SG tomorrow.

EDIT: Following @metaljem77’s lead, huge shout-out to Uncle Wilson, @Subtonic Ken and @Chang for being such generous hosts for us all. The Singularity, for me in particular, is gonna cause a lot of problems.

 

[gLer]

‘Just got home after a lovely, lovely meet with several of our beloved Coolers. I’m sure tons and tons more photos and impressions will be coming tomorrow (and over the next following days), but today was a super nice preview to the Pandemonium that I’m sure will be CanJam SG tomorrow.

That's all we get? Two photos!? Spill it Daniel!

 

[Deezel177]

That's all we get? Two photos!? Spill it Daniel!

I wanna save longer impressions for after CanJam, but gist of it is…

Subtonic’s Storm is all I expected it to be. It has arguably the cleanest transients I’ve heard without committing any massive tonal sins. There weren’t any notable shortcomings, and I can easily see it being a do-all IEM for a lot of people. ‘Didn’t grab me enough to consider buying it, personally. It’s more an IEM for checking mixes than mixing. But, it’s worthy of its place in the TOTL mix for absolute certain.

A funny feature I found with the Storm is that it’s really malleable with cables. The PW Orphy warmed it up to the point where it was near-identical to my JH Sharona’s. My jaw dropped at how close it was. I liked it best with the 2-wire Mira, while the 4-wire Mira (plus some other prototype cables from Nightjar) pulled it too far into the dry and clean realm for me. The Coolers who preferred technique and detail loved that config, though.

Nightjar’s upcoming Singularity and Duality are ridiculously good. The former is arguably the best DD IEM I’ve ever heard. It’s a sub-bass-boosted, half-mainstream, half-fun sound, but what sets it apart from other DD IEMs I’ve heard is the top-end texture and detail. It half-sounds like there’s a BA or EST helping out with the separation there. It’s an insanely clean, fast treble that’s so un-DD. And, the presentation… ugh… waves of notes enveloping you from all around, but without becoming too intimate or cloying. It reminds me of the OG Diva’s delivery, but on another level, separation and detail-wise.

The Duality is a superb basshead IEM. It sacrifices the top-end finesse and speed of the Singularity for a massive sub-bass hump. It’s definitely a specialist, though, so it’ll be harder to justify if it comes in at like $2-3K. But, if you’re just here for massive bass, this one’s a killer too.

As for everything else I tried, here are some quick bits:

CFA Trifecta: ‘Certainly not as bad as it’s been made out to be. It’s strongly-colored for sure - pulled down between 6-8kHz, then again after 10kHz - and it seems to be that way to highlight the bass. I can see why people would like it, and I can see why others consider it overpriced.

Noble Audio Ronin: This one sounded linear and fairly plain-Jane. It didn’t do much wrong, but I did feel it lacked a deep, black background. It made certain mixes lack dynamics and drama. Plus, the shells were extremely wide. I couldn’t tell how it was supposed to sound for a while, ‘cus I couldn’t get a definitive, zeroed-in fit. But, otherwise, I can see the appeal.

UM Multiverse Mentor: It’s much warmer and wetter-sounding than I expected. I was expecting a bit more of a bite or an edge, and I felt it sounded a bit wooly ‘cus of the mid-bass, to be honest. It worked brilliantly with some of the brighter, crisper mixes in my library, but I frankly expected a bit more clarity. Still, I liked it okay.

AK x EE Odyssey: This one, I liked quite a bit. As soon as the first kick drum hit, I was greeted by that Weapon 9+ bass that I know and love, and the mids and highs followed pretty well. The mids were nicely balanced in tone, and the treble made more than enough room for the lows to shine. It could’ve used more air up top to hit a home run, and the mids weren’t the most remarkable of the day, technically. But, I think it’s a really good IEM and what the EE EVO definitely should’ve been.

Softears Tremolo: It’s got a warm, slightly L-shaped tilt to it. It’s very pleasing, it’s got enough bite, and it’s got impressive headroom. ‘About what you’d expect for a single-DD CIEM at this price from Softears, and it’s a very nice EDC for those who’ve enjoyed their previous DD offerings.

‘That enough for you, @gLer ?

 

[weexisttocease]

I wanna save longer impressions for after CanJam, but gist of it is…

Subtonic’s Storm is all I expected it to be. It has arguably the cleanest transients I’ve heard without committing any massive tonal sins. There weren’t any notable shortcomings, and I can easily see it being a do-all IEM for a lot of people. ‘Didn’t grab me enough to consider buying it, personally. It’s more an IEM for checking mixes than mixing. But, it’s worthy of its place in the TOTL mix for absolute certain.

A funny feature I found with the Storm is that it’s really malleable with cables. The PW Orphy warmed it up to the point where it was near-identical to my JH Sharona’s. My jaw dropped at how close it was. I liked it best with the 2-wire Mira, while the 4-wire Mira (plus some other prototype cables from Nightjar) pulled it too far into the dry and clean realm for me. The Coolers who preferred technique and detail loved that config, though.

Subtonic’s upcoming Singularity and Duality are ridiculously good. The former is arguably the best DD IEM I’ve ever heard. It’s a sub-bass-boosted, half-mainstream, half-fun sound, but what sets it apart from other DD IEMs I’ve heard is the top-end texture and detail. It half-sounds like there’s a BA or EST helping out with the separation there. It’s an insanely clean, fast treble that’s so un-DD. And, the presentation… ugh… waves of notes enveloping you from all around, but without becoming too intimate or cloying. It reminds me of the OG Diva’s delivery, but on another level, separation and detail-wise.

The Duality is a superb basshead IEM. It sacrifices the top-end finesse and speed of the Singularity for a massive sub-bass hump. It’s definitely a specialist, though, so it’ll be harder to justify if it comes in at like $2-3K. But, if you’re just here for massive bass, this one’s a killer too.

As for everything else I tried, here are some quick bits:

CFA Trifecta: ‘Certainly not as bad as it’s been made out to be. It’s strongly-colored for sure - pulled down between 6-8kHz, then again after 10kHz - and it seems to be that way to highlight the bass. I can see why people would like it, and I can see why others consider it overpriced.

Noble Audio Ronin: This one sounded linear and fairly plain-Jane. It didn’t do much wrong, but I did feel it lacked a deep, black background. It made certain mixes lack dynamics and drama. Plus, the shells were extremely wide. I couldn’t tell how it was supposed to sound for a while, ‘cus I couldn’t get a definitive, zeroed-in fit. But, otherwise, I can see the appeal.

UM Multiverse Mentor: It’s much warmer and wetter-sounding than I expected. I was expecting a bit more of a bite or an edge, and I felt it sounded a bit wooly ‘cus of the mid-bass, to be honest. It worked brilliantly with some of the brighter, crisper mixes in my library, but I frankly expected a bit more clarity. Still, I liked it okay.

AK x EE Odyssey: This one, I liked quite a bit. As soon as the first kick drum hit, I was greeted by that Weapon 9+ bass that I know and love, and the mids and highs followed pretty well. The mids were nicely balanced in tone, and the treble made more than enough room for the lows to shine. It could’ve used more air up top to hit a home run, and the mids weren’t the most remarkable of the day, technically. But, I think it’s a really good IEM and what the EE EVO definitely should’ve been.

Softears Tremolo: It’s got a warm, slightly L-shaped tilt to it. It’s very pleasing, it’s got enough bite, and it’s got impressive headroom. ‘About what you’d expect for a single-DD CIEM at this price from Softears, and it’s a very nice EDC for those who’ve enjoyed their previous DD offerings.

‘That enough for you, @gLer ?

Thanks for the impressions, it was a nice read. Do you know if the Tempest from Subtonic was available for demo?

 

[Deezel177]

Thanks for the impressions, it was a nice read. Do you know if the Tempest from Subtonic was available for demo?

They said they broke it. They’re currently building one and hope to finish it in time for tomorrow.

 

[SoundJedi]

They said they broke it. They’re currently building one and hope to finish it in time for tomorrow.

 

[Chang]

I wanna save longer impressions for after CanJam, but gist of it is…

Subtonic’s Storm is all I expected it to be. It has arguably the cleanest transients I’ve heard without committing any massive tonal sins. There weren’t any notable shortcomings, and I can easily see it being a do-all IEM for a lot of people. ‘Didn’t grab me enough to consider buying it, personally. It’s more an IEM for checking mixes than mixing. But, it’s worthy of its place in the TOTL mix for absolute certain.

A funny feature I found with the Storm is that it’s really malleable with cables. The PW Orphy warmed it up to the point where it was near-identical to my JH Sharona’s. My jaw dropped at how close it was. I liked it best with the 2-wire Mira, while the 4-wire Mira (plus some other prototype cables from Nightjar) pulled it too far into the dry and clean realm for me. The Coolers who preferred technique and detail loved that config, though.

Subtonic’s upcoming Singularity and Duality are ridiculously good. The former is arguably the best DD IEM I’ve ever heard. It’s a sub-bass-boosted, half-mainstream, half-fun sound, but what sets it apart from other DD IEMs I’ve heard is the top-end texture and detail. It half-sounds like there’s a BA or EST helping out with the separation there. It’s an insanely clean, fast treble that’s so un-DD. And, the presentation… ugh… waves of notes enveloping you from all around, but without becoming too intimate or cloying. It reminds me of the OG Diva’s delivery, but on another level, separation and detail-wise.

The Duality is a superb basshead IEM. It sacrifices the top-end finesse and speed of the Singularity for a massive sub-bass hump. It’s definitely a specialist, though, so it’ll be harder to justify if it comes in at like $2-3K. But, if you’re just here for massive bass, this one’s a killer too.

As for everything else I tried, here are some quick bits:

CFA Trifecta: ‘Certainly not as bad as it’s been made out to be. It’s strongly-colored for sure - pulled down between 6-8kHz, then again after 10kHz - and it seems to be that way to highlight the bass. I can see why people would like it, and I can see why others consider it overpriced.

Noble Audio Ronin: This one sounded linear and fairly plain-Jane. It didn’t do much wrong, but I did feel it lacked a deep, black background. It made certain mixes lack dynamics and drama. Plus, the shells were extremely wide. I couldn’t tell how it was supposed to sound for a while, ‘cus I couldn’t get a definitive, zeroed-in fit. But, otherwise, I can see the appeal.

UM Multiverse Mentor: It’s much warmer and wetter-sounding than I expected. I was expecting a bit more of a bite or an edge, and I felt it sounded a bit wooly ‘cus of the mid-bass, to be honest. It worked brilliantly with some of the brighter, crisper mixes in my library, but I frankly expected a bit more clarity. Still, I liked it okay.

AK x EE Odyssey: This one, I liked quite a bit. As soon as the first kick drum hit, I was greeted by that Weapon 9+ bass that I know and love, and the mids and highs followed pretty well. The mids were nicely balanced in tone, and the treble made more than enough room for the lows to shine. It could’ve used more air up top to hit a home run, and the mids weren’t the most remarkable of the day, technically. But, I think it’s a really good IEM and what the EE EVO definitely should’ve been.

Softears Tremolo: It’s got a warm, slightly L-shaped tilt to it. It’s very pleasing, it’s got enough bite, and it’s got impressive headroom. ‘About what you’d expect for a single-DD CIEM at this price from Softears, and it’s a very nice EDC for those who’ve enjoyed their previous DD offerings.

‘That enough for you, @gLer ?

Great meeting you all of you guys too! Appreciate all of you taking the time to give our projects a try. STORM is indeed extremely malleable with source, cable and tip pairing. The even response lends itself well to letting users color it to their liking. We're always open to advise on pairings so anyone can feel free to shoot us a message if you ever need advise or have questions. Just a small clarification, singularity and "duality" will be released under Nightjar and not Subtonic, both will be available for demo at our booth this weekend!

Edit: Unfortunately Tempest will not be ready for demo at this canjam but we are planning to start tours before release so there will be opportunities to try it soon, do keep an eye out!

 

[Deezel177]

Great meeting you all of you guys too! Appreciate all of you taking the time to give our projects a try. STORM is indeed extremely malleable with source, cable and tip pairing. The even response lends itself well to letting users color it to their liking. We're always open to advise on pairings so anyone can feel free to shoot us a message if you ever need advise or have questions. Just a small clarification, singularity and "duality" will be released under Nightjar and not Subtonic, both will be available for demo at our booth this weekend!

Edit: Unfortunately Tempest will not be ready for demo at this canjam but we are planning to start tours before release so there will be opportunities to try it soon, do keep an eye out

Ahh, thanks for the clarification, Chang. I’ve edited my post. See you guys tomorrow!