The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.

[SBranson]

I figured you’d appreciate them but wondered about the more “safe” or maybe “sterile” midrange in comparison to the Dorado but I didn’t think you’d like them as much as you seem to, or as much as I do for that matter. Nice to hear that they are “rocking your world” or rather that your world is rockin’ with them ha ha.

 

[fzman]

I have both the M15 & M8. M8 sounds fuller & richer. I use the M15 mostly for analytical/critical listening & to compare IEMs. I use the M8 exclusively with the 4.4mm module, as it's for pure musical enjoyment & to get the most out of my IEMs.

I think this is an excellent post, and it has made me think quite a bit about reviewing, commenting and listening. I totally get what @rantng is saying, and have had the same thoughts myself. But it also raises lots of questions, none of which are meant to do criticize or offend - just a reflection of how my (weird) brain works (or fails to work, as some might say). In no specific order:

Can analytic/critical listening be musically enjoyable, or is it contrary to it? Is there even such a thing as proper listening?

Should you make a 'review' item run the gauntlet, or try to get the most of out of it? IOW, do you just pop it out of the box, 'connect it' and go? Do you try after-market tips or cables, SE vs Balanced connections, etc.... Iems are trickier, as all of us with non-average body types know -- 'One size fits all" is complete crap!

I think part of this is as much or more about who you think your audience is, than Best Practices per se. I think for most consumer goods that are 'ready for use', then a reviewer wuld never say something like 'these are great pants, once you have them retailored, change the zip, and dye them a different color"... We, on the other hand, know that the struggle is real, and that you have to tip or tube roll, play with cables, filter settings, sample-rates and the like, to get to your happiest place, so it makes snse to mention all the stops on your journey, as it will clearly benefit others.

It is awesome and wonderful to watch people who are on the journey with us, who are also willing to share their expensive/hard-won lessons in order to hep others.

 

[Rockwell75]

I think this is an excellent post, and it has made me think quite a bit about reviewing, commenting and listening. I totally get what @rantng is saying, and have had the same thoughts myself. But it also raises lots of questions, none of which are meant to do criticize or offend - just a reflection of how my (weird) brain works (or fails to work, as some might say). In no specific order:

Can analytic/critical listening be musically enjoyable, or is it contrary to it? Is there even such a thing as proper listening?

Should you make a 'review' item run the gauntlet, or try to get the most of out of it? IOW, do you just pop it out of the box, 'connect it' and go? Do you try after-market tips or cables, SE vs Balanced connections, etc.... Iems are trickier, as all of us with non-average body types know -- 'One size fits all" is complete crap!

I think part of this is as much or more about who you think your audience is, than Best Practices per se. I think for most consumer goods that are 'ready for use', then a reviewer wuld never say something like 'these are great pants, once you have them retailored, change the zip, and dye them a different color"... We, on the other hand, know that the struggle is real, and that you have to tip or tube roll, play with cables, filter settings, sample-rates and the like, to get to your happiest place, so it makes snse to mention all the stops on your journey, as it will clearly benefit others.

I hear you-- sometimes I feel I should be putting a massive caveat before all my impressions stating that my listening is being done on a Shanling M8. I feel a good deal of the enjoyment I'm deriving out my favorite IEMs derives from the magic of the M8.

As to whether analytic/critical listening can be enjoyable I think it depends on the personality. I've used this comparison before but I can go watch commentaries on great chess games-- as analytic a pursuit as ever there could be-- and find myself totally engaged. But it's an intellectual sort of engagement and personally what I'm after from my audio gear is more in the realm of emotional connection and enjoyment...however I could well imagine someone seeking out gear that gives them the same sort of (analytic) satisfaction that I get from watching chess videos. Something like the u12t would seem perfectly suited to this.

If someone's aiming to be a professional reviewer then I could see the value in having a super referency source so as to be able to isolate the IEMs from anything a player may (or may not) be adding on top...but for me personally it wouldn't be worthwhile as I'd always opt for the more musical option.

It is awesome and wonderful to watch people who are on the journey with us, who are also willing to share their expensive/hard-won lessons in order to help others.

Defo-- my favorite aspect of this community.

 

[Rockwell75]

I was trying to do some "critical listening" to the Bravado earlier and the song above came on and after a minute I was totally sucked into another world for the full extent of the song...if an IEM can do this for me any impressions that follow are merely footnotes. That said switching back to the Dorado I listened to the following:



As good as the Bravado is it just can't produce the organic rich timbre of those analogue moog synthesizers to the extent the Dorado can. Bravado MKii is top tier in a sort of conventional way-- there are a number of IEMs I could go after that would satisfy me at more-or-less the same level. The Dorado 2020 in my experience is unique and if you wind up being really in to what it puts down then I don't think you'll find anything else out there that's just as satisfying in the in the same ways that the Dorado 2020 is. The staging is another thing that stands out. The Bravado has a very typical staging in that everything feels in front of you, like you're in the audience. Through it you feel as though you're listening to your favorite music through an incredibly capable speaker system. CFA IEMs at their best up the ante and make you feel like you're there-- in the case of Dorado 2020 not just with the immersive staging but also with the rich, meaty natural timbre.

DRAFT of Updated Favorites List

1) Vision Ears Elysium
2) Campfire Audio Dorado 2020
3) Campfire Audio Andromeda 2020
4) Sony IER Z1R
5) Campire Audio Solaris
6) Vision Ears VE8
7) Empire Ears Bravado Mk II
8) Unique Melody MEST OG
9) Empire Ears Legend X
10) QDC Anole VX
11) 64 Audio Nio

 

[Rockwell75]

x-posting as this is a fascinating topic.

gLer said:
Further to my tongue-in-cheek comment above, I know it's not strictly a Chi-Fi IEM, but I found this article quite interesting:

https://www.audioreviews.org/chi-fi-tuning/

Great article!

This jumped out at me right away:

"As a tuner for Chi-Fi earphone manufacturers, I often encounter difficulties and frustrations trying to convince their management and engineers to accept a certain tone or sound characteristics. They are judging my tuning based on their own experiences of how “good sound” should be represented. They cannot understand why “blurry and unclear” (in their own vocabulary – “模糊不清”) sound would appeal to the westerners. For earphones that are both sold domestically and exported, I have to tune for both the Mainland and western consumers. Therefore it isn’t easy striking a balance between the two audiences."

This is exactly why I've heard people describe certain IEMs as "muddy" when they don't sound muddy to me at all-- I think different people are more/less sensitive/acclimatized to different regions of the FR in their hearing. Not that one way or another is superior-- I suspect that an individual's hearing sensitivities are, to some extent, related to the tones and overall FR balance of whatever language/people they grew up listening & talking to.

That said of all the IEMs I've heard that successfully gets that "best of both worlds" tuning the Sony IER Z1R is probably takes top prize-- however alongside the something like the CFA Dorado the Z1R's Eastern tuning stands out loud and clear. Listen to something like CCR on the Dorado then on the Z1R and this becomes readily apparent.

 

[SBranson]

I wanted to post this, from the Sennheiser IE900 Sponsor Announcement here as I think it really speaks to the philosophy of this thread.

Thanks so much for speaking out for so many in our industry. While I think that the science behind the harman-target is repeatable, it has lead to a simplification of headphone evaluation. The main purpose of audiophile headphones is to connect you with your music on a deeper level. Of course tonal balance is one aspect of it, but the perceived space in the music, low distortion or the perception of dynamic bass all play important roles. I know that measurements feel good because they give you something dependable in a highly subjective discussion. But in the end, headphones are so much more than what is commonly measured, so at Sennheiser, we make our tuning decisions based on listening tests, not by the shape of squiggly lines.

 

[mashuto]

I wanted to post this, from the Sennheiser IE900 Sponsor Announcement here as I think it really speaks to the philosophy of this thread.

That actually makes me really want to get or at least try out the ie900. I think also if anyone know what they are doing in terms of tuning something and adding interesting new audio tech, sennheiser is almost certainly at the top of the list. My poor poor wallet. I was supposed to be done with the Jolene... Then again, I know theres no getting out. Once you are in, its for life.

 

[Rockwell75]

That actually makes me really want to get or at least try out the ie900. I think also if anyone know what they are doing in terms of tuning something and adding interesting new audio tech, sennheiser is almost certainly at the top of the list. My poor poor wallet. I was supposed to be done with the Jolene... Then again, I know theres no getting out. Once you are in, its for life.

Yeah defo I've always wanted a single DD but all the single DDs I've tried have had issues with the highs...the tech used for the highs in the IE900 sounds very interesting.

 

[DanielListening]

I could not find the Campfire Andromeda thread to save my life so I am posting it here because:
1. these are @Rockwell75 ’s personal pair so Andromeda 2020s (thank you) ()
2. I know he wouldn’t bite my head off
3. He asked to hear my thoughts

Thanks again to @Rockwell75 I am now listening to the CFA Andromeda 2020’s and I finally understand the thread description of “Holy Cow, This is a dream, awesomesauce.” CC: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ew-holy-cow-this-is-a-dream-awesomesauce.2075

These are awesomesauce indeed.

The emotional connection to the music is overwhelming. I had a tough time getting a good fit for a while with the shorter nozzle but I upped the size of my Final E tips and was able to make them work. The shorter nozzle gave me some pause but it seems to be working out. I’m a couple hours in.

I could see me liking the OGs since I find the treble nice but I could take a bit more. Although I’m very happy with what I am hearing.

I have been using a Sony NW-ZX507 with the Andromeda’s (thanks @SBranson ) and it is a match made in heaven for me. They sound great with my Chord Mojo too (a bit darker, a bit more sparkly).

First the vocal clarity and realism is what makes me so excited. I never miss a word, I hear it all. This is so important to me.

If I am Goldielocks and the Andromeda is porridge, it is Baby Bear’s porridge. It is just right.

Recently due to the generosity of @Rockwell75 & @SBranson I have been able to listen to the Dorado 2020, VE Elysium & the Empire Ears Bravado MKII. The Andromeda 2020s really are making the music I love come alive more than any IEM ever has.

The presentation is so nice. I immediately was just listening to my music, I didn’t really think about the IEMs I was just totally absorbed by my music.

I really enjoy the soundscape/staging. Vocals up front and centre. Music all around. Nothing super wide or tall but good. So much depth though. Very clear. Not speaker like, but more realistic than I think I have given them credit.

I cannot overstate how well these IEMs present vocals.

I am having a hard time analyzing these IEMs I just feel like they cannot do wrong. I think the synergy with the Sony is a part of it.

Really good dynamics. Up for anything. They just push out music.

I really like how guitars and pianos sound.

I have no complaints. Like I said these are “just right.”

I am pretty positive if @SBranson is still willing to sell his Sony to me I am going to be looking for a pair of Andromedas from Campfire Audio. I’m just kinda sad I didn’t buy these IEMs sooner, as they have been on my radar since 2017.

Maybe the Sony should head up to @Rockwell75 for a taste. I doubt it would best the Shanling M8, but there is something to be said about synergy...

 

[Rockwell75]

I could not find the Campfire Andromeda thread to save my life so I am posting it here because:
1. these are @Rockwell75 ’s personal pair so Andromeda 2020s (thank you) ()
2. I know he wouldn’t bite my head off
3. He asked to hear my thoughts

Thanks again to @Rockwell75 I am now listening to the CFA Andromeda 2020’s and I finally understand the thread description of “Holy Cow, This is a dream, awesomesauce.” CC: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ew-holy-cow-this-is-a-dream-awesomesauce.2075

These are awesomesauce indeed.

The emotional connection to the music is overwhelming. I had a tough time getting a good fit for a while with the shorter nozzle but I upped the size of my Final E tips and was able to make them work. The shorter nozzle gave me some pause but it seems to be working out. I’m a couple hours in.

I could see me liking the OGs since I find the treble nice but I could take a bit more. Although I’m very happy with what I am hearing.

I have been using a Sony NW-ZX507 with the Andromeda’s (thanks @SBranson ) and it is a match made in heaven for me. They sound great with my Chord Mojo too (a bit darker, a bit more sparkly).

First the vocal clarity and realism is what makes me so excited. I never miss a word, I hear it all. This is so important to me.

If I am Goldielocks and the Andromeda is porridge, it is Baby Bear’s porridge. It is just right.

Recently due to the generosity of @Rockwell75 & @SBranson I have been able to listen to the Dorado 2020, VE Elysium & the Empire Ears Bravado MKII. The Andromeda 2020s really are making the music I love come alive more than any IEM ever has.

The presentation is so nice. I immediately was just listening to my music, I didn’t really think about the IEMs I was just totally absorbed by my music.

I really enjoy the soundscape/staging. Vocals up front and centre. Music all around. Nothing super wide or tall but good. So much depth though. Very clear. Not speaker like, but more realistic than I think I have given them credit.

I cannot overstate how well these IEMs present vocals.

I am having a hard time analyzing these IEMs I just feel like they cannot do wrong. I think the synergy with the Sony is a part of it.

Really good dynamics. Up for anything. They just push out music.

I really like how guitars and pianos sound.

I have no complaints. Like I said these are “just right.”

I am pretty positive if @SBranson is still willing to sell his Sony to me I am going to be looking for a pair of Andromedas from Campfire Audio. I’m just kinda sad I didn’t buy these IEMs sooner, as they have been on my radar since 2017.

Maybe the Sony should head up to @Rockwell75 for a taste. I doubt it would best the Shanling M8, but there is something to be said about synergy...

I knew you'd love them man. The Andromeda is indeed a Goldilocks IEM. If it weren't for my overall preference for DD mids and lows I wouldn't need another IEM.

 

[Nalin]

Really looking for a great pairing for my Andro 2020 as well, currently using them straight out of my MBA. Never owned a DAP before but I now know that Sony ZX-507 and Shanling M8 is great paining with them. Coming to the tuning, yes these are hard to find fault with. Nothing stands out in a good way and nothing is missing as well.

 

[claud W]

I joined the CA Dorado 2020 tribe this morning. Bloom Audio gave me a nice friendly price so I ordered. Another IEM to connect to M8 for break in.

 

[Rockwell75]

Right on man can't wait to hear your thoughts!

 

[claud W]

For other cable geeks in this thread, I also ordered a PW Audio Loki +, an 8 wire 70% silver and 30% copper cable for my Dorado 2020.

 

[claud W]

I have an Andromeda that I bought new in 2019. Is there a significant SQ upgrade with the Andromeda 2020? If so, what?