[smeggy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmopragma /img/forum/go_quote.gif At the moment I'm listening to a tertiary rig in the kitchen.The SR-Xs driven by an Autocostruire T-2020 (Tripath based "digital" switching amp) and fed by a decent soundcard.Less than $ 350 for the whole rig and a sound I could happily live with if I had to. I guess I do like euphonic and colored .........

me too

 

[Lloyd297]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif 5) The energizers have their own strengths versus the dedicated amps. They are more euphonic and colored but that can be a good thing. This is a preference issue but for me a good dedicated amp eats the adapters for dinner...

I'd resolved not to contribute any more to this ridiculously wieldy thread but I just had to respond to Spritzer's assertion.

Far from being "more euphonic and coloured" than the Stax dedicated amps, the transformers are actually quite the opposite. Run a SRD7 transformer off a high-quality power amp and it will eat alive something like a 007t for speed, transparency, and lack of compression.

 

[feckn_eejit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lloyd297 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Far from being "more euphonic and coloured" than the Stax dedicated amps, the transformers are actually quite the opposite. Run a SRD7 transformer off a high-quality power amp and it will eat alive something like a 007t for speed, transparency, and lack of compression.

I gotta side with Lloyd297 on this one, there is nothing euphoinc or coloured about my X250.5 driving the SR-X/MK3s through the SRD-7. That setup is the farthest I have ever seen into the recordings I listen to, and it lays bare the flaws and coclourations of every other rig configuration I can set up. The SRD-7 Pro/SR-404 rig is another story, that has all the usual SR-404 colourations.

 

[smeggy]

I couldn't say for certain, not having heard the big guns of the 'stat amp world, but I suspect that it would end up more a case of preference as to whether dedcated amps or transformers sound best. I like to think that transformers would sound at least as good in the right configuration.

Hah, what would I know anyway, I love my sR-X with a t-amp

Obviously my standards are low enough to be happy with any old claptrap.

Anyway, despite my lowly standards I've somehow achieved the best headphone sound I've ever heard. SR-X Mk3, SRD-6 and t-amp, pure joy. I'm sure it can be even better and no doubt will be as I get a new amp for the K 1000s and better transformer than the SRD-6. That puts a smile on my face.

 

[edstrelow]

It's been a long time since I owned a Stax transformer, so possibly I am missing something by relying on amps, (717, SRM3, SRA12-S and SRD-P).

I tend to agree that most of the Stax phones need a lot of power (possible exception SR003) and that many or all of the Stax amps do not generate enough oomph. For that reason, I could see that one might get better dynamics off a transformer, run off a power amplifier.

However, the downside is that you are adding several additional stages of signal processing and that has to add distortion. With the Stax amp, you have basically one amplifier. With a transformer rig you have a pre-amp, power amp plus transformer. So it seems inevitably you will have more distortion from such set-ups.

 

[derekbmn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by feckn_eejit /img/forum/go_quote.gif I gotta side with Lloyd297 on this one

As do I. I'm at the point where I honestly don't think I will buy another full fledged stat amp for a VERY long time. I'm THAT happy with my SRD-7 PRO from my Aleph 3 (clone) .And am very excited to see how the OIIs will perform with it.

 

[feckn_eejit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow /img/forum/go_quote.gif However, the downside is that you are adding several additional stages of signal processing and that has to add distortion. With the Stax amp, you have basically one amplifier. With a transformer rig you have a pre-amp, power amp plus transformer. So it seems inevitably you will have more distortion from such set-ups.

Depends on the components... I'd argue that a single-ended source straight into a Stax direct drive electrostatic amp might not be as good as my fully balanced DAC with a stepped attenuator, straight into the X250.5 balanced power amp (with only two gain stages), into the step-up transformer box, then to the earspeakers. That's not a lot of chance for distortion...

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow /img/forum/go_quote.gif However, the downside is that you are adding several additional stages of signal processing and that has to add distortion. With the Stax amp, you have basically one amplifier. With a transformer rig you have a pre-amp, power amp plus transformer. So it seems inevitably you will have more distortion from such set-ups.

It's not quite that bad. A stax amp will still have a pre and power stage internally just as an integrated amp paired with a transformer would. The difference is a dedicated electrostatic amp will try to achieve the large voltage swings by having a gain stage that boosts many times more than normal amplifier. Of course not just any component will be able to achieve the large gains involved hence the use of tubes like the EL34 with their 800V max plate voltages. Personally I'd like to hear a dedicated electrostatic amp made with something nicer than the 12AX7s and EL34s that seem to be the usual choices. Having said that I don't think I'm going to be dropping my transformer for a dedicated amp any time soon, Carl has suggested I get a nice 300B based amp in the meantime which I'm thinking is a good idea. Still annoyed I missed out on that ESC-1001 though.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmopragma /img/forum/go_quote.gif I happen to prefer the energizers in combination with decent loudspeaker amps. Frankly, the Stax amps aren't that great.I have owned or at least listened to most of them. The best dedicated amp I've owned was a Rudistor Egmont.Quite good, but relatively expensive and I prefer my Staxes driven by my balanced speaker amp via energizers (SRD 7/SR-X Mk III, SRD 7 Pro/Lambda 303). At the moment I'm listening to a tertiary rig in the kitchen.The SR-Xs driven by an Autocostruire T-2020 (Tripath based "digital" switching amp) and fed by a decent soundcard.Less than $ 350 for the whole rig and a sound I could happily live with if I had to. I guess I do like euphonic and colored .........

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lloyd297 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd resolved not to contribute any more to this ridiculously wieldy thread but I just had to respond to Spritzer's assertion. Far from being "more euphonic and coloured" than the Stax dedicated amps, the transformers are actually quite the opposite. Run a SRD7 transformer off a high-quality power amp and it will eat alive something like a 007t for speed, transparency, and lack of compression.

Quote:

Originally Posted by feckn_eejit /img/forum/go_quote.gif I gotta side with Lloyd297 on this one, there is nothing euphoinc or coloured about my X250.5 driving the SR-X/MK3s through the SRD-7. That setup is the farthest I have ever seen into the recordings I listen to, and it lays bare the flaws and coclourations of every other rig configuration I can set up. The SRD-7 Pro/SR-404 rig is another story, that has all the usual SR-404 colourations.

You all have valid points but no clear reference. The Stax amps aren't all that great and I wouldn't touch the Egmont stuff with a ten foot pole. They are very much the same as the Stax stuff, not bad but not very good either. In my experience the direct drive amps like my Blue Hawaii are much better then a SRD-7 driven by a CAT JL-1 in the same system (not my amp). The adapters are more forgiving of cheaper equipment and are easier to please but colored is relative. To my ears all headphones except the SR-007 are colored to some extent. I really like the SR-X Mk3's but they have way to many problems to be considered the end all reference some make to to be. When you open them up they get better but it open up all the issues Stax tried to hide back then. This goes for nearly all of the phones from every manufacturer until 1987.

In the end it all boils down to preference. The sound seems to have more balls and guts out of the adapter and that can make up for the deficiencies of phones like the SR-X but kills the SR-007. The Blue Hawaii has both more macro and micro dynamics and it will show what every cable is doing. It has showed my just how colored the Kimber KS-1130 is without breaking a sweat. I know what I like and while I respect your opinions you really should try a good tube amp in your home for a few weeks. Meets are a terrible place to get to know how thing really sound like.

 

[Carl]

Not everyone would agree with the view that the Omega 2s aren't coloured.


Quote:

Originally Posted by mirumu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Of course not just any component will be able to achieve the large gains involved hence the use of tubes like the EL34 with their 800V max plate voltages.

And here was me planning on using low gain triodes...

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not everyone would agree with the view that the Omega 2s aren't coloured.

All I know is if that is what colored sounds like then I like it.

Quote:

And here was me planning on using low gain triodes...

Well you don't need 800V, but higher voltages are what provides the dynamics. I assumed you were going to use those low gain triodes in some kind of pre-amp stage to get the sound the way you want it and then follow it with as transparent a power stage as possible to get the voltage.

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirumu /img/forum/go_quote.gif All I know is if that is what colored sounds like then I like it.

Well said.

Quote:

Well you don't need 800V, but higher voltages are what provides the dynamics. I assumed you were going to use those low gain triodes in some kind of pre-amp stage to get the sound the way you want it and then follow it with as transparent a power stage as possible to get the voltage.

800V? Pah, that's for mere amateurs.

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif 800V? Pah, that's for mere amateurs.

Capable of 1500V if my memory serves? Even keeping well under that would give results while keeping them in their comfort zone. ^_^

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirumu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Capable of 1500V if my memory serves? Even keeping well under than would give results while keeping them in their comfort zone. ^_^

The graphite ones can do over 2000V. Not that a man that values his life would make a B+ that high, but it's there if you need it.

 

[sadaqut]

Hi, This post is very informative, however I would like some specific information. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Best Regards,