The Stax Thread III

[Ampeezy]

Sr-007 is as impactful and extended as the song calls for, and I have had my fair share of headphones known for amazing bass like the Audeze LCD-2

 

[TheGadaffiDuck]

well in my experience, orthos and good dynamics have better extension than say an L300/700, but what the Stax have is a tasteful midbass presence that honeys your music. Even my HD800S extends better below 80hz (i think), they are a bit cold still and not as inviting when you compare them to Stax (or even anything else for that matter)

 

[Whitigir]

Sr-007 is as impactful and extended as the song calls for, and I have had my fair share of headphones known for amazing bass like the Audeze LCD-2

Matter of fact, I don't care for Utopia + Tazh1es anymore sitting down and listen to it. I rather use 009+carbon instead. Here is the craziest thing about 009 bass. It is deadly spot on and balances. Utopia has a lot of midbass impact and dynamic resolutions but Sub bass is not as detailed and extended as 009 while Z1R has too much sub-bass and the mid bass is colored with a "too warmth" signature. Personal preferences aside, true quality is always true. 009+carbon has the most balances, beautiful bass that I have ever heard, and is deadly spot on with realistical and neutrality.

So once again let me break this egg to you in preparation for Esters. There is no such thing as cheap system and performances. If you keep at mid-tier level, ofcourse you will have compromises regardless of system. But the best Dynamic can not match and compare to the best of ES.

To think Stax is open back, you have the wrong idea. The membranes cover the whole thing through and through, the gaps is very little, sounds are produced both ways as the membranes vibrate and swing back and forth, but it is not openback....ever heard of Stax fart ? That is because the membranes and the Pads form a closed seal of air space....now....explain to me how is that open back ?
Confused...opened design vs open back
Edit: Wait....I never had the chance to hear the mythical beast "Orpheus 1 and 2"....let's just say the highend of Stax

 

[Spork67]

 

   
Sure, I just prefer the bass impact that dynamic drivers usually provide. I found myself reaching for my T1's a lot more, even though the treble response is much more natural and forgiving on the SR-407. 

 
 
I don't disagree with your assessment about "impact".  Hard to get impact with an openback phones IMHO.

 
 

 

2/ Electro stat lack the bass that a dynamic system has

 
 
I would not say lacking in bass because if the recording has it, the Stax will reproduce it faithfully.  However, you often don't feel the effect of the bass as you potentially can in other setups.  And I'm not talking about too much bass either.  I've always thought that it was partly due to the openback setup because you cannot usually develop sufficient sound pressure levels,.

 
 
Do you know you can multi quote replies rather than double-posting?

 

[behwatch]

To think Stax is open back, you have the wrong idea. The membranes cover the whole thing through and through, the gaps is very little, sounds are produced both ways as the membranes vibrate and swing back and forth, but it is not openback....ever heard of Stax fart ? That is because the membranes and the Pads form a closed seal of air space....now....explain to me how is that open back ?

Stax 009, 007 and most stax are open backs... Open back are those headphones u can hear ur surroundings with them on.

 

[Whitigir]

Stax 009, 007 and most stax are open backs... Open back are those headphones u can hear ur surroundings with them on.

Is this isolation or is it open back design that we are talking about ? Where there are open air vs closed air space between the drivers and the ears ? Open vs closed design ? Actually I was confused, yeah open back design is where the back is open. It has nothing to do with bass impacts....that is a myth. Can anyone please tell me that there are closedback design that can outperform Stax 009 or Utopia or HD800 properly amped ? We need to clear up these myths

 

[behwatch]

Is this isolation or is it open back design that we are talking about ? Where there are open air vs closed air space between the drivers and the ears ?

I am talking about the design.
It is a characteristic of being open backed. Means nothing is covering the membrane behind it. Doesn't mean there is a seal between the ear and the membrane.
Closed back, the membrane will be covered by plastic, wood or metal.

 

[Whitigir]

I am talking about the design.
It is a characteristic of being open backed. Means nothing is covering the membrane behind it. Doesn't mean there is a seal between the ear and the membrane.
Closed back, the membrane will be covered by plastic, wood or metal.

That is true, I was confused because whenever I hear this myth closed back has more impact than open back.....I mean really, can whoever stated that tell me the exact headphones that they referred and pointed to as being closed back or closed design to have more bass impact and quality than those that are sitting on the top of the chains ? Show me something that is closed back and can beat Utopia for example. Don't bring in personal preferences because we are talking about engineering stand point here. Preferences beats by Dre has more bass impact than Utopia to my wife who doesn't care about headphones....especially a 4K one

I know for a fact that Z1R is one of the best closed back design, and it has nowhere the bass resolution, dynamic, impacts that Utopia does. I would be very very very insterested to buy this closed back "being", period

 

[behwatch]

Dont think I have heard closed backs that has better bass impact/resolution than Stax 009/Carbon.
 
But for bass weight, sometimes I still like to use closed backs.

 

[astrostar59]

 

Stax 009, 007 and most stax are open backs... Open back are those headphones u can hear ur surroundings with them on.

Is this isolation or is it open back design that we are talking about ? Where there are open air vs closed air space between the drivers and the ears ? Open vs closed design ? Actually I was confused, yeah open back design is where the back is open. It has nothing to do with bass impacts....that is a myth. Can anyone please tell me that there are closedback design that can outperform Stax 009 or Utopia or HD800 properly amped ? We need to clear up these myths

I would have to comment that the Utopia and HD800 are not known as bass monsters if you are still talking bass responses here. Inner Fidelity for example set 5dB bass boost in their review for example, and having heard the HD800 I got the impression it was a bit tipped up in response.
 
IMO the Stax 009 well amped (Carbon, BHSE) has great bass as in resolution and frequency response, i.e. it goes super low, but I have heard more 'impact' on an LCD3 for example. Personally I would take the 009s bass for the detail and texture and it's lack of 'one note' bass as some bass heavier designs can tend to be (and speakers as well in some cases).
 
The Stax sound is different, and you either dig it or not. The ones that do can be supper happy, the ones that don't move on and buy planers etc.
 
An observation on the 009s bass. I have played with EQ quite a bit, and as in a single driver speaker design any extra bass seems to rob the soundstage and transparency as I imagine in this case, the panels are having to do more of everything at once including more movement in the bass which is where panel or speaker extension is the greatest. They seem to get swamped. It seems to slow down and thicken the mid and upper frequencies to me. Unless the source material is bass slight, I believe it is too high a price for the extra bass effect.
 
And taking that as an example, 'possibly' Stax just can't get more bass output out of a single driver without such a sacrifice? I have putting this out as a ball park theory, I have no facts to back that up obviously, only my hearing observations and my theory. Thoughts welcome!
 
As regards HP designs and indeed speaker design, I guess there is always going to be a limit or physical limits to what is possible. How many single speaker designs have you seen that have a response of 20hz - 20Khz within 3dB? I would say not one. So in my mind where we are at with HPs today is quite incredible actually.

 

[VandyMan]

  I have played with EQ quite a bit, and as in a single driver speaker design any extra bass seems to rob the soundstage and transparency

I've been using the digital PEQ in the latest version of Roon quite a bit. I find that just a touch of extra bass really improves the 009. Try like 1.5 db at 20 Hz, rolling off at 50 Hz.  I also find that a little cross-feed reduces the in-your-face quality that Ether C Flow has on certain recordings. With the 009, I find that cross-feed takes away that midrange magic that I love.

 

[astrostar59]

 

  I have played with EQ quite a bit, and as in a single driver speaker design any extra bass seems to rob the soundstage and transparency

I've been using the digital PEQ in the latest version of Roon quite a bit. I find that just a touch of extra bass really improves the 009. Try like 1.5 db at 20 Hz, rolling off at 50 Hz.  I also find that a little cross-feed reduces the in-your-face quality that Ether C Flow has on certain recordings. With the 009, I find that cross-feed takes away that midrange magic that I love.

I put any loss of SQ in the digital domain (EQ on a PC) may be down to resampling the bits, i.e. the data is altered then fed to the DAC. I prefer if at all possible to feed unaffected from the player. My DAC is NOS, so maybe e different to the DS popular approach of up sampling first then feeding the DAC. In a way it may be better (less loss) the old way when we had analogue tone controls, well possibly. I also find the perceived loss v gains in using EQ varies with the software used.

 

[Failed Engineer]

Has anyone owned a 4070 with one of the top amps (KGSSHV Carbon, BHSE, T2, etc)?  I've tried to find impressions but haven't been successful.

 

[astrostar59]

  Has anyone owned a 4070 with one of the top amps (KGSSHV Carbon, BHSE, T2, etc)?  I've tried to find impressions but haven't been successful.

Ask at the 'other place'.

 

[Tinkerer]

Has anyone owned a 4070 with one of the top amps (KGSSHV Carbon, BHSE, T2, etc)?  I've tried to find impressions but haven't been successful.

 


4070 owners are pretty rare, since both the headphones are pretty rare and also that for what they go for nowadays, most people would rather have a SR-007 or something. I think spritzer has one though.