The Stax Thread III

[theboch]

It's not background noise that one can hear when no music is playing, but rather the contrast between the natural noise floor in a recording with the music. There is less contrast with the SR009 than the HD800. The SR009 is fuzzier around the edges. That's what I understand most audiophiles to mean by referring to a blacker background.

I'm quite certain that my setup does not generate noise as you can see from my response to Astrostar.

 
Ok, then we are speaking of the same. I just was not completely sure.

 

[lojay]

Well done lojay, what a rig (or rather, plural) you've got there!! DIY T2 w/ 009 ranks #1 as my ultimate headphone experience, and on par with great speaker rigs in terms of overall enjoyment (and superior in full-spectrum resolution, especially bass). And that, without a DAC as good as you've got there (burning in a new Yggy, but your MSB Analog looks so tasty). The one I heard ran vintage Mullard EL-34, so that's possibly relevant to the resultant sound quality (not sure which 6922, actually). From what I've heard in speaker amps, the warm-as-hell but still extended and extremely 3D-sounding Mullard EL34 seems like it would be a fabulous match with a 009.

I'm not even gonna ask how you scored that DIY T2, because it will inevitably make me feel sad about my life

Thanks let's just say I'm a very lucky man! It took a while to build but it is made very professionally.

Spot on about the bass. I must say the bass resolution is awe inspiring. Never have I heard such impactful but yet detailed bass with such natural decay. It makes the 009's bass on the KGSSHV sound rather "one-note" like. I can even hear the air surrounding the bass, and the resonance felt by the instrument.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Pretty much everything
  Don't know what your asking. On a Stax amp the SQ leaps significantly. It seems to show that there's more SQ in the amp (and DAC) chain to be pulled out, proving yet again the transducer has the greatest effect on the SQ. Also could mean that it's easier to drive, so Stax amps sound significantly better. I haven't tested with all my Stax amps yet however. 

 
Thanks for going to the trouble of discussing this with me.
 
Looks like there's a communication barrier for the moment, so I'll try elaborating.
 
I mean, you've heard all these top-of-the-line aftermarket/DIY amps with the SR-009 and other headphones. So far, your published impressions of the SR-L700 have been from STAX amps, not aftermarket/DIY amps. But now I'm even more confused. When you talk about the sound quality improving on STAX amps, what are you referring to specifically? Are you just saying that, when using the same STAX amp, switching from the SR-009 to the SR-L700 results in an increase in sound quality? Because that's not what I'm most interested in. I meant, when you compare the sound of the SR-L700 driven by the STAX amp(s) to the sound of the SR-009 driven by the best amps out there, does the SR-L700 still sound more accurate (again, only from a STAX amp) than the SR-009 (again, using the best amps you've heard, and from memory, since you haven't been able to do a direct comparison) to you? I'm very impressed how people who have lots of experience listening to the SR-009 on really high-end systems are liking the SR-L700 so much, and even more surprised how many like it more than the SR-009. But so many spectacular things have been said about the SR-009 + [insert TOTL amp here] that I feel the need to inquire further, in case I'm missing something. (I do know direct comparisons are ideal, though.)
 

I think it spanks it, but I'm not a huge fan of the 007mk1/mk2.

 
Well, I was looking for a more in-depth description of the differences in sound between the SR-L700 and SR-007; not merely the fact that you prefer one over the other. But thanks anyway. Although sound is most important to me and I don't dislike the looks of the SR-L700 per se, the SR-007MK2 is by far my favorite headphone in terms of aesthetics. It speaks to my soul in a way that no Lambda can. hehe
 

Hard to find ... on the headband loop, center part, just above the rectangular part just above the harness. Faint white letters - thanks. 

 
Yeah, it's on the same place on the headband as the other click-stop headbands.
 

  I have recently joined a very exclusive club - the DIY T2 club that is. 
 
It is a magnificent pairing with the SR-009, especially for vocals and more intimate types of recordings. 
 
I must say, it is not the last word on clarity and precision. The HD800s (modded) and the EC 445 are superior in that regard. But for almost any other criteria, the DIY T2 / SR-009 reigns supreme. 
 
For those who own a T2: what is your favourite headphone with the T2?

 
Jealous!!
 
Care to post some amp porn tasteful photos of your DIY T2?
 
I understand that you want to keep certain details secret, such as the builder, but would you be willing to reveal how much it cost and how long it took to build?
 
This is one of the most desirable electrostatic amps, and according to some people, it's even harder, longer, and more expensive to get one nowadays. I tracked down a list of DIY T2 owners and was planning on networking with them once I'm ready for one. One guy told me only a few people in the world would be able to build it now. I do know another guy who is building one for himself. It's taking him years, but he's lazy. haha
 

Raz great to know that my 1,000 post is in reply to you. Resolution is a fuzzy word. I think the SR009 does micro details noticeably better, such as the inner texture and surrounding air or reverberations of voices and instruments. Voices have better inner definition and far more natural inflections. This is due to its superior transient response. Distance or front to back layering between sonic cues is also rendered more accurately.

The HD800 with the EC445 is better at macro details, given a blacker background and more precise imaging or definition of spatial cues: This is most evident with mass strings or complex rock arrangements. The SR009 will tend to harmonise and lump together mass strings. The HD800 will emphasise the contours of instruments, even when performing in unison, much more precisely.

Because of their different strengths, I feel that the SR009 is better suited towards pop and vocals, jazz music, solos, quartets and live music in more intimate settings; the HD800 is better suited for orchestral works, choir music and aggressive types of music like dance music or metal.

 
Can you go into more detail about what you dislike about metal with the SR-009? (Although I listen to nearly everything, I listen to a lot of metal. I adored the SR-207 and SR-30 with all genres, including metal, and had serious problems with the HD 800...though, as covered earlier, this was likely due to using a stock HD 800 on solid-state amps and DACs. I bet the new HD 800S will be more pleasing in stock form, since they mentioned that the peakiness in the frequency response has been improved upon. But since I've lost interest in non-electrostats for the most part, I'm not sure whether I would ever bother building dynamic and planar magnetic summit-fi systems just for the sake of certain aspects of sound.)

 

[JeffA]

Stax fans,
I am interested in the SR-L700 as an introduction to electrostatic headphones. I currently have a Senn HD800 rig. Is the Woo Wee converter a viable solution to amplification, or to get the true Stax experience is it necessary to dive all in on a dedicated Stax amp?

 

[Rhamnetin]

  Stax fans,
I am interested in the SR-L700 as an introduction to electrostatic headphones. I currently have a Senn HD800 rig. Is the Woo Wee converter a viable solution to amplification, or to get the true Stax experience is it necessary to dive all in on a dedicated Stax amp?

 
The WEE is not an amp, it's an energizer.  It needs to be connected to a power amp.  There are other energizers too, I don't know how they compare to decent electrostatic headphone amplifiers though.  There are also much better amps than ones by Stax.

 

[JeffA]

   
The WEE is not an amp, it's an energizer.  It needs to be connected to a power amp.  There are other energizers too, I don't know how they compare to decent electrostatic headphone amplifiers though.  There are also much better amps than ones by Stax.

Thank you for the quick reply. Let me be more clear. I have amps for my HD800 (grace m920 and DNA Sonnet 2). The question is whether a Wee (or some other energizer) combined with my HD800 amps is a decent combination for a Stax headphone, or whether it is much better to go with a dedicated electrostatic amplifier. I am aware that Headamp makes great (and very expensive) electrostatic amplifiers. Not aware of others that make them at lower price points, though. I will do some searching.

 

[preproman]

  I have recently joined a very exclusive club - the DIY T2 club that is. 
 
It is a magnificent pairing with the SR-009, especially for vocals and more intimate types of recordings. 
 
I must say, it is not the last word on clarity and precision. The HD800s (modded) and the EC 445 are superior in that regard. But for almost any other criteria, the DIY T2 / SR-009 reigns supreme. 
 
For those who own a T2: what is your favourite headphone with the T2?

 
Congrats Jason.   Show off some of those pictures.
 

 

[Rhamnetin]

 
Thank you for the quick reply. Let me be more clear. I have amps for my HD800 (grace m920 and DNA Sonnet 2). The question is whether a Wee (or some other energizer) combined with my HD800 amps is a decent combination for a Stax headphone, or whether it is much better to go with a dedicated electrostatic amplifier. I am aware that Headamp makes great (and very expensive) electrostatic amplifiers. Not aware of others that make them at lower price points, though. I will do some searching.

 
Well, you have two headphone amps.  Energizers like the WEE need to be connected to a speaker power amp.  See the speaker taps in this picture:
 

 
So you're probably better off getting a dedicated electrostatic headphone amplifier, unless you have some good power amps lying around, but then I don't know how an energizer + good power amp compares to various electrostatic headphone amps.
 
You might want to look around for a used KGSS amp from a reputable seller.  It's one of the more popular starter amps, being thought of as a step up over Stax without approaching the price of many other amps.

 

[Music Alchemist]

I am aware that Headamp makes great (and very expensive) electrostatic amplifiers. Not aware of others that make them at lower price points, though. I will do some searching.

 
I've read bad things about the WEE. You can certainly use it, but the price of it plus a decent speaker amp could be more than an entry-level electrostatic headphone amp.
 
Here are some links to check out. Of course, conduct due diligence before making a decision.
 
https://www.staxusa.com/driver
http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_result_goods.php?in_category=&in_maker=25
http://www.cavalliaudio.com/index.php?p=product_details&pId=4
http://www.mjolnir-audio.com/products
 
The Kevin Gilmore designs (BHSE, KGSSHV, DIY T2, Nanotube, etc.) are generally held in the highest regard.

 

[preproman]

Raz great to know that my 1,000 post is in reply to you. Resolution is a fuzzy word. I think the SR009 does micro details noticeably better, such as the inner texture and surrounding air or reverberations of voices and instruments. Voices have better inner definition and far more natural inflections. This is due to its superior transient response. Distance or front to back layering between sonic cues is also rendered more accurately.

The HD800 with the EC445 is better at macro details, given a blacker background and more precise imaging or definition of spatial cues: This is most evident with mass strings or complex rock arrangements. The SR009 will tend to harmonise and lump together mass strings. The HD800 will emphasise the contours of instruments, even when performing in unison, much more precisely.

Because of their different strengths, I feel that the SR009 is better suited towards pop and vocals, jazz music, solos, quartets and live music in more intimate settings; the HD800 is better suited for orchestral works, choir music and aggressive types of music like dance music or metal.

 
I'm I the only one who thinks the HD800 has defused imaging?  IMO there's no way the HD800 image better than the 009s.  

It's not background noise that one can hear when no music is playing, but rather the contrast between the natural noise floor in a recording with the music. There is less contrast with the SR009 than the HD800. The SR009 is fuzzier around the edges. That's what I understand most audiophiles to mean by referring to a blacker background.

I'm quite certain that my setup does not generate noise as you can see from my response to Astrostar.

 
Fuzzier around the edges?  I haven't heard the T2, It sounds like it does some things not as good as the BHSE.  On the BHSE the 009s don't have a black background.  They have no background on that amp - they get out off the way better than any other headphone I've heard.
 
I notice a granier sound on the HD800 while the 009s are as transparent as transparent can get.  
 
I really need to hear the T2.  Is it a hybrid amp or a full blown tube amp?  

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I really need to hear the T2.  Is it a hybrid amp or a full blown tube amp?  

 
Hybrid. The DIY version has a better power supply than the original STAX SRM-T2.

 

[Rhamnetin]

 
Fuzzier around the edges?  I haven't heard the T2, It sounds like it does some things not as good as the BHSE.  On the BHSE the 009s don't have a black background.  They have no background on that amp - they get out off the way better than any other headphone I've heard.

 
"Fuzzier around the edges" also made me think of transparency, where the SR-009, SR-007, and even lower end electrostats stomp on a well driven HD 800 to my ears.  The HD 800 is definitely "grainier" and still sounds like a headphone, while with the SR-009 it's just me and the music.  No background sounds about right for the SR-009 + BHSE.

 

[bmichels]

I have recently joined a very exclusive club - the DIY T2 club that is. 

CONGRATULATION !

Could you post pictures of your T2 please ?
Thanks in advance

 

[Rhamnetin]

I wouldn't mind pictures of that T2 either.  That has to be the most intimidating looking headphone amplifier of all time though.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I wouldn't mind pictures of that T2 either.  That has to be the most intimidating looking headphone amplifier of all time though.

 
I don't think it looks all that intimidating, honestly.
 

Spoiler: Various DIY T2 photos, for reference

 
What's truly intimidating is the schematic. (Click...if you dare.)