The Stax Thread III

[statfi]

The funniest picture on Headfi ever
I hope you get them fixed soon.

Re. the picture, its worth a thousand words. *Now* I have you attention !-)
Re. the fix: I expect that if I get the replacement parts, I will put them in a drawer for if I ever want to sell the 009s, e.g., if Stax came out with a superior model.
One benefit of the breakage was that my current revision with exercise bands *is more comfortable* that my original rev with rubber bands. The problem with rubber bands on the head band is that the head band (near my break in it) comes very close to your skull, and rubber bands cause a corner of the head band to touch your skull. This has two major down sides: a) it is uncomfortable, and b) it limits the force clamp the pads to your skull. Cycling to the Lick Observatory this morning I noticed that my bicycle helmet plus a sweat band has about the same level of dis-comfort as my method of supporting the 009s with two exercise bands.
At this point I will state explicitly what maybe does not come through in my posts:
1) Stax 009s are wonderful. This does not mean they cannot be better, but *I have not heard* headphones that I prefer.
2) I have a BHSE with matched NOS-6CA7-PH-MB Philips Miniwatt EL34 / 6CA7 Metal Base tubes. IMO the marriage of 'stats to OTL tubed amps was "made in heaven". 'Not that one could not in principle do better, but the synergy is superb, and Kevin and Justin have done a really nice job.

 

[astrostar59]

So- why attempt to alter them? If it works don't fix it, or err don't bust it to then have to fix it when it wasn't bust in the first place. All seems a bit left field for me, I am running away at this point...

 

[statfi]

When you first started this "head clamping" idea, I did wonder if you were joking, or maybe going a bit loopy. And I'm still wondering .

Re. the first possibility, I am not joking. The jury is still out on the second possibility !-) However, in the meantime, thanks for your thoughtful comments below.

I also felt this tweak slightly improved SQ, but that may have just been wishful thinking, as I couldn't be bothered to do A/B comparisons.
So, although your head clamping idea may well improve SQ for all I know, I'm never going to find out, becuase comfort and looks are also important to me.

I hope that we can agree to disagree on the relative importances of comfort, looks and sound quality. *For me*, personally, sound quality trumps virtually everything else (except, possibly, price !-), and looks matter not one iota. Although my threshold for discomfort is rather high, it does have limits, and I can appreciate others insisting on greater comfort. My current working hypothesis is that there is a real tradeoff between sound quality and comfort related to clamping force. Stax made, IMO, a reasonable choice for this tradeoff, but not one that is optimal for yours truly. I notice that Canorum explicitly "mention" and enabled user input into this tradeoff,but do not further elucidate the pros and cons:

this is the google translation of Canorum from their website
...
To improve ergonomics, we developed a headband with a unique mechanism for adjusting the clamping force. ...

(I have tried an experiment with Head-Fi's formatting syntax. I hope they worked. If not, apologies.)

 

[bearFNF]

I just received my SR-009's back from their vacation in Hong Kong.
The final report is that all they did was clean them and then test them for a little over a week.
They did not find anything wrong with the drivers, which is good. No $$$ bill for new drivers...

Been listening to them for a few hours now and no imbalance, so far.
I though it was funny that they traveled from Hong Kong to Taiwan to Anchorage Alaska to Fargo North Dakota before coming to me in Minnesota.
The FedEx guy said that they were scrambling to keep up and that lots of planes/shipments have been diverted to avoid the storm in the south.

 

[statfi]

Been there, done that. Sounded exactly the way I describe it : narrower soundstage, all around brighter balance. Both things thare are going the wrong way IMO considering the stock nature of 009.

Ali

I agree on this. In my (basic) test adding clamping has a crude alteration to the sound as a basic EQ would, reduces the soundstage and increases the bass a bit but encourages a bass bump or one note effect. Don't forget you are reducing the air volume in the cavity between your ear and the sound panels, bit like putting a big speaker in a smaller box, it doesn't always work. Then the added heat and discomfort and strain on the frames. TBH I believe it is a non starter. I am more interested in angling the panels as The Attorney mentioned. I note the 007 has a bit more angling in the pads. So if I had the resources, I would make some custom pads with more thickness to the rear to see if it increased the soundstage effect.

Back to the reason to try the clamping, is it you want more bass? What amp and DAC are you using? I have no problem with bass TBH. And besides, I am conscious I spent 3.5K on the 009s so don't want to trash them. I would recommend testing out theories on an old Lambda pair and use the Mother in law for the clamping force testing. Should do the job fine.

'Love the picture!

IMO, increased clamping improves the sound stage in these ways. Individual instruments in the sound stage have narrower images, so the sound stage appears more "open", with the added advantage (for me) that I can more easily separate different instruments in space as well as in musical line and timbre. I have not noticed that the centers of images of individual instruments get closer together. Secondly, clamping makes it easier for my ear to "automatically" differentiate direct sound from reflected sound, creating the (faithful) impression of real instruments in a real recording space.

Could both of you give me a few more words on how clamping degrades the soundstage, so I can understand how it is different from what I am focusing on?

Re. bass, when I did ABA... tests, I consciously decided that the bass level was not changed all the much with clamping, but that the bass had more "impact" and/or "weight". Empirically, e.g., I can hear more clearly the bowing of double basses, whether solo or massed. Emotionally, for me, they have more "weight" that way. My *hypothesis* is that, for bass instruments, their harmonics are more coherent. For example, for bowed double bass, the bow interacts with the strings with a stick/slip process, giving many "micro transients" at the slip events. In order for the harmonics to add up to reproduce these micro transients, their coherency must be maintained. In order for coherency to be preserved by the diaphragm of the electrostatic driver, its "mechanical ground" (the ear cups) must not be moving at any of the frequencies of interest. (End of hypothesis.)

To answer the question explicitly, knowing what I know today, I do not want *more* bass than stock 009s offer, just bass with greater fidelity.

I am using the BHSE with Philips Metal Base EL34s.

While I did a (successful) spot check with my Bryston BDA-2 and hi-res files, the bulk of my comparisons are done with my analog front end which is far better than the BDA-2 in the domains being discussed. (E.g., my analog is *not* better than the BDA-2 in the domains of random uncorrelated noise, a.k.a. hiss, or ticks and pops.)

I do disagree with the analogy between volume between ES diaphragm and ear and the volume of a room with speakers. Acoustic interaction in the two cases is quite different because, for the former, the effective dimensions are much smaller than the bulk of the effective wavelengths, whereas, for the other, they are much longer. 'Two very different acoustic regimes.

 

[astrostar59]

Statfi, what amp are you using, and DAC please.

 

[zolkis]

here some numbers,i don't know if this makes any sense but at least it is a direction.I have owned all these phones.Of course the numbers are "living" depending of different amps/sources,diffrent ears and persons.Maybe i check the numbers again at some point and do some changes

From that list, every headphone stands out in something. Whether that or actually what exactly makes it the best headphone for someone, indeed depends on the music, chain, and person.
For myself I would add my modded and properly head-adjusted 007 Mk1 to that list (would not do that in stock form). Its bass extension is as good as the 009 and Phenomenon (actually it measures quite the same as the latter), but has the oomph/emphasis a bit higher, making it sound with different bass slam. As I perceive it, it has bigger bass slam and impact than all the others, but measurements tell that extension and curve shape are similar. Its midrange liquidity is quite the reference for me, but I'd give the crown to the HE1 by a small margin (maybe memory fails me though). The treble is a bit subdued compared to all the rest, but has good lifelikeness and gives the sound a deeper tonality that is very pleasant on long listening (not "dark", but "deep"). Its bigger brother, the SR-Omega is a bit better in everything except perhaps midrange fluidity.

Another dimension to check is how "lifelike" (pitch, attack, decay, timing, harmonic structure) compared to real instruments they sound. The most true to original instrument pitch and harmonics are the 009 and Phenomenon. They are more alike than not. The 009 is more sensitive, the Phenomenon a tad more dynamic/real perhaps and with no treble issue (although the 009 is fine for me in the treble), with treble structure/type similar to that of the 007, but less attenuated (that puts it close to the SR-Omega). Both the 009 and Phenomenon are linear, neutral, extended and true to the sound, alive and full with PRaT, but I would say still the more fun to listen IMHO are the HE1, SR-Omega and the 007 Mk1. They give such a special, relaxed enjoyment. This is what keeps me by the 007 (although I may sell it in the end). I don't yet know about the new Canorum, but so far to me the 009 and Phenomenon are reference type of headphones more than dancer's one, so that it makes you want to boost the bass a bit (good old "loudness"). That makes them best suited to instrumental, small chamber and classical music. For jazz is a tie. With pop, electronica etc I still reach for the 007 Mk1 - not to mention it's the lightest -, and would do it even more with the SR-Omega or HE1. Surely, all of these are capable to melt your heart with music, but each with different kind. Comparing them doesn't really make justice to either one, but if we want to define a character, roughly that's how I feel it. You can't go wrong with any of these, as they excel in all areas compared to other headphones.

All of this is my interpretation, and mind you that I seem to have odd impressions when compared to others' impressions.

 

[Pokemonn]

darn, I am deeply shocked...I bought oppo Sonica Dac which have latest ESS 9038 Pro DAC chip...burned in about 24hours.
completly no listening fatigue.... silky smooth....no digital etch.....scary good separation and resolution.... surprise...surprise....surprise.....its literally insane good SQ.
I have been thinking that etch came from 009 but no no no it was from a DAC. No EQ needed anymore.
I wasted 2 year times for bad sounding DAC. sad sad sad....lol

hope this someone help.

 

[bmichels]

Bmichels- have you heard any difference in sound after reducing the cable to 1.1 m?

NO, no real sound difference. Just more convenient....

 

[JimL11]

darn, I am deeply shocked...I bought oppo Sonica Dac which have latest ESS 9038 Pro DAC chip...burned in about 24hours.
completly no listening fatigue.... silky smooth....no digital etch..... surprise...surprise....surprise.....
I have been thinking that etch came from 009 but no no no it was from a DAC. No EQ needed anymore.
I wasted 2 year times for bad sounding DAC. sad sad sad....lol

hope this someone help.

So, what DAC was causing the etch?

 

[JimL11]

Unrelated topic: Bob Katz has recently received a KGSS Carbon built by Mjolnir Audio for evaluation. He reports on it on InnerFidelity.

 

[paradoxper]

Results: DUH. It's so good.

 

[Pokemonn]

So, what DAC was causing the etch?

actually many dacs for me. I want to avoid comment which dacs caused etch. some of them are still in production.
so oppo Sonica Dac ESS 9038 Pro is huge surprise for me since it's relatively cheap dac. Sonica's treble is very very refined but not etchy at same time.

 

[zolkis]

Need to catch up on the Sonica then, although not being hard on the treble does not necessarily mean analog sound, as it can still sound thin, or hard on mids, which I am sensitive to. I thought to get the E.C Designs new DAC, as it's built from ground up to solve the "digital" sound issues, and reportedly does, albeit only with 44.1 material - but includes headphone amp too. Too bad it's unobtainable yet. The Holo Spring could be another contender, and the Yggy, although there's been some concerns on pairing it with the 009 and transistor amps. I still use a TDA1541 build for 44.1, still unbeaten.

 

[weasel1979]

Hi there, I am kind of new here, been reading for quite a while now. I am a 007 Mk1 and KGSSHV owner, I listen to Tidal Hifi, but I am hesitant to spend a ot of money on a DAC, is that a mistake? Do you all really hear differences between DACs? Could you recommend some reasonably priced DACs? Thank you.