The Stax Thread III

[Tinkerer]

I have some extra circlotron driver boards that I thought would be fun to convert to carbon ones and swap out the ones in my KGSSHV. But I don't think the sand is rated high enough for a 500V PSU.

 

[HemiSam]

The BHSE is a beautiful design, but not for everyone.  I've never felt a burning desire to purchase one given the sound signature.
 
I own a KGSSHV Carbon and a KGST, both of which I'll likely keep both for a good while.  I like the Carbon with the 007 Mk2's and the KGST with the 003 Mk2's (took them for a spin this evening).  Good stuff.
 
HS

 

[astrostar59]

  I think the "almost no loss" resale days of the KGSSHV are long over (judging by the number of >$2000 listings rotting in the Classifieds).
 
Maybe people are coming to terms with the fact that it's priced way too high for what it offers. 

 

What ads, where? I sold my 2 KGSShv amps 3 months back in 2 weeks of advertising.
 
TBH after having the Carbon for 3 months, I still say the KGSShv (nice built version like the ones I had) is a superb amp. Nothing has changed in my view.
 
Alternatives are what at 2K?

 

[Rossliew]

Anyone wanna sell their spare kgsshv/carbon/BHSE?

 

[TheAttorney]

Ask again in a month's time )
 
I'm thinking of downsizing to a smaller transportable system.
 
Step 1: Find a very compact DAC with a great integrated headphone amp. Achieved with DAVE.
 
Step 2: Find a dynamics headphone that sounds anywhere near as good as my BHSE/009. So far failed miserably, but I'll be auditioning the latest crop of TOTL models, including Utopia. as soon as they're all in at the same time, same place, which the dealer reckoned would be in first half of October.
 
I wouldn't hold your breath on this one. In the unlikely event I do get swayed by the Utopia or whatever, I may still keep the BHSE just so that I can look at it as a work of art ) 

 

[Rossliew]

Ask again in a month's time )

I'm thinking of downsizing to a smaller transportable system.

Step 1: Find a very compact DAC with a great integrated headphone amp. Achieved with DAVE.

Step 2: Find a dynamics headphone that sounds anywhere near as good as my BHSE/009. So far failed miserably, but I'll be auditioning the latest crop of TOTL models, including Utopia. as soon as they're all in at the same time, same place, which the dealer reckoned would be in first half of October.

I wouldn't hold your breath on this one. In the unlikely event I do get swayed by the Utopia or whatever, I may still keep the BHSE just so that I can look at it as a work of art ) 

Lol! Well I'll only hold my breath if your BHSE is 230V or else it's a no go..don't want the hassle of getting the voltage converted (sorry just saw that you're based in the UK so your BHSE should be of the right voltage for me)..that said, indeed it is a work of art but such a waste just sitting there getting stares..

 

[comzee]

 
Maybe people are coming to terms with the fact that it's priced way too high for what it offers. 

 

This is why I sold my kit (to you coincidentally).
 
When I was getting better micro details from my Taurus Mkii ($1300) + hd800 ($1000) combo, I know something was goofy.
It all made sense with the reply you gave me, describing how you thought the DIY-T2 was a couple leagues ahead of the Carbon.
 
Let me think off the top of my head what's out there for Stax amps:
Stax stock amps
Kevin Gilmore amps
BHSE
DIY-t2 (not readily available to the public) 
 
What's out there for regular HP amps:
As we all know, too many to list, and at every price range.
 
More competition means better performance at lower prices.
When every forum online is sh!tting on Stax amps, the BHSE is months wait time for a high price, DIY-T2 is basically unobtanium, you're left with one option, Kevin Gilmore designs.
 
I don't care if parts to Iceland are more expensive, or what labor costs are, in my opinion KG amps are overpriced for the performance they deliver to comparative dynamic offerings. 
Burn me at the stake, w/e. Also, anybody can cherry pick numbers out their butt for price v.s. performance. The simple fact is that there are 100's of more competitive offerings in the dynamic driver space in regards to amps.
 
I think a DIY-T2 + 007/009/Omega has the potential to best any dynamic headphone system in the world.
This means when talking $$ out of the equation, I still love Stax, I love their SQ, their specific signature. Since I'm not in the 1%, I can't personally justify. 
 
This is why I'll stick with my srs-002 kit (which I love). 

 

[mulveling]

I generally disagree with that assessment, though I agree the Icelandic builds are expensive. There's lots of other quality builds that come available for lower prices. I actually find dynamic amps to be more disappointing -- and they're relatively less important components in the audio chain than with electrostatics -- especially for those who enjoy electrostats at higher volumes. I would never, EVER choose a HD800 w/ GS-X Mk 2 over a 009 with KGSShv (which can be had for less than a GS-X 2).
 
The KGSShv is still a good amp, and I loved mine for a couple of years, it's just that 009 and 007 scale to ridiculous levels (like the HD600/650, except at a much higher level), and the BHSE/Carbon and then DIY T2 take it to the next 2 levels. The BHSE is also rooted in KG's Blue Hawaii design btw, and the DIY T2 features improvements made by KG.
 
KG is among the best (if not THE best) headphone amp designer in both the dynamic and electrostat worlds, so the fact that he's the main option in the eletctrostat world is actually nice -- most (though not all) of the crap is already filtered out for you, with Stax amps filling the entry level. He doesn't make profit from these amps, so it's not like he's exerting a monopolistic hold over the market either.

 

[comzee]

I would never, EVER choose a HD800 w/ GS-X Mk 2 over a 009 with KGSShv (which can be had for less than a GS-X 2).

That is partly my point, is it not? You are using the example of GS-X Mk2, which I know many people hate with the hd800, too rough, too bright. (Apart from the imo that SS amps suck on HD800)
 
There are 100s of other alternatives, in both tube and SS, to use with HD800, correct? ... Basing that judgement on one amp pairing, with who knows what dac... hmmm...
I've listened to 10+ really good amps with hd800, only two have beat the 009/Carbon setup for me. In that same vain, again, many choices I have not tried, that could or could not be good. I have choices though!
 
Quote:

 
KG is among the best (if not THE best) headphone amp designer in both the dynamic and electrostat worlds

That is not only highly subjective, how in the world are you to compare an electrostatic amp to a dynamic amp... ?
For example, I can connect my "Fire-Bottle" and Taurus MkII amps to the same dAC (Yggdrasil). I can use the same headphones, HD800, to directly compare each amp, using the same HP/DAC.
You change one component in the chain (DAC or HP) and there is no objective way to compare, unless I'm missing something?
 
If you're talking purely on a technical design standpoint, sure, I don't know crap about electronics in that realm. KG maybe could be the best designed amp in the world, but if it's not coming to best SQ in the world, I can throw the technical design out the window, who cares. 
 
And I know I'll never get the group think thumbs up, just posting this for others, not the regulars here.
I want to be a "devil's advocate" and get some counter points in this thread, no worries.
(Or maybe people want to endlessly talk about 007 revisions and rehash talking points 100s of pages in row )

 

[purk]

  That is not only highly subjective, how in the world are you to compare an electrostatic amp to a dynamic amp... ?
For example, I can connect my "Fire-Bottle" and Taurus MkII amps to the same dAC (Yggdrasil). I can use the same headphones, HD800, to directly compare each amp, using the same HP/DAC.
You change one component in the chain (DAC or HP) and there is no objective way to compare, unless I'm missing something?
 
If you're talking purely on a technical design standpoint, sure, I don't know crap about electronics in that realm. KG maybe could be the best designed amp in the world, but if it's not coming to best SQ in the world, I can throw the technical design out the window, who cares. 

Could it be that you are simply a fan of the HD800 voicing more than that of Stax?  I personally preferred the Stax SR009/SR007 over the HD800 rig that I have.  Like you, I have tried several amplifiers with the HD800, including the GS-X MKII, SuSy Dynahi, ECP DSHA-2 & L2, Apex Peak & Vocano, Questyle Monoblock, and HR Balanced Home w/ a Max module and at the end of day I always prefer my KGSSHV 500v/450v over the HD800 system.  A recently minimeet confirmed that my Stax system is vastly superior to the Ether Flow system.
 
I don't think KG amps are overpriced.  In fact, it down right a steal compared to what Stax offers.  A good electrostatic amplifiers simply cost more compared to dynamics.  And, not everyone is qualified to build a high voltage amplifier that can easily kill you.  I also believe that KG is one of the best if not the top headamp designer out there.

 

[VandyMan]

I've listened to 10+ really good amps with hd800, only two have beat the 009/Carbon setup for me. In that same vain, again, many choices I have not tried, that could or could not be good. I have choices though!

 
There are literally thousands of models of dynamic headphones vs around a dozen electrostatic models in current production.  Once there are more companies making electrostatic headphones, we will likely see many more electrostatic amps. The list of amps posted above was actually incomplete. I can think of several off the top of my head that were no included such as Woo and King Sound. There are others. Also, in my limited experience, STAX amps are better than they are given credit for. There are certain vikings who feel that anything they did not build themselves is complete crap and are very vocal about that. Maybe they are right, but I doubt it.

Once I got a 009 and BHSE, choice became irrelevant for me. Seriously though, more choice would probably give the electrostatic market a boost, but it is choice in headphones holding it back, IMO. 

 

[astrostar59]

   
I don't think KG amps are overpriced.  In fact, it down right a steal compared to what Stax offers.  A good electrostatic amplifiers simply cost more compared to dynamics.  And, not everyone is qualified to build a high voltage amplifier that can easily kill you.  I also believe that KG is one of the best if not the top headamp designer out there.

Plus from me as well. Why 

  That is not only highly subjective, how in the world are you to compare an electrostatic amp to a dynamic amp... ?
For example, I can connect my "Fire-Bottle" and Taurus MkII amps to the same dAC (Yggdrasil). I can use the same headphones, HD800, to directly compare each amp, using the same HP/DAC.
You change one component in the chain (DAC or HP) and there is no objective way to compare, unless I'm missing something?
 
If you're talking purely on a technical design standpoint, sure, I don't know crap about electronics in that realm. KG maybe could be the best designed amp in the world, but if it's not coming to best SQ in the world, I can throw the technical design out the window, who cares. 
 
And I know I'll never get the group think thumbs up, just posting this for others, not the regulars here.
I want to be a "devil's advocate" and get some counter points in this thread, no worries.
(Or maybe people want to endlessly talk about 007 revisions and rehash talking points 100s of pages in row )

Hang on, lets slow down a bit here. KG amps are way overpriced? Kevin doesn't build any amps or sell them so how can that be???
 
He is a top top guy IMO that knows his stuff and designs THE BEST electrostatic amps available. The T2 DIY you have has been tweaked and extracted from the Stax T2 which was originally flawed (in built self destruction) but sounded brilliant. Without KG you wouldn't have a T2 at all.
 
There are circuit boards out there for free, you ask Kevin and go buy the parts, then you put them together, so you err, pay very little if you put the effort in.
 
A price of any DIY amp is subjective to that builder, some charge low prices and others more. It is NOT all KG amps are way overpriced, that is simply rubbish and misleading.
 
I have had 2 x KGSShv amplifiers which I used with the 007As and 009s and they sounded better IMO to the Abbys, HD800 and HE-6. 
 
I have the money and would buy any amp or headphone if it sounded better (up to 10K system) and am staying with KG amps sorry.
 
I am going too lay down now as have got all hot and bothered all of a sudden. I have a passion for this hobby, but not disinformation.

 

[purk]

Many of us have tried Stax amps and they are a disappointment compared to DIY KG amps.  Plus KG just open source all of his designs so it is really depending on how much the builder will charge you.  Some charge more than others but most DIY amps utilize better parts & PCB boards compared to commercialize builders.  Also, KG designed number of dynamic amps including Susy Dynahi, and Susy Dynalo just to name a few.  If you can build these two amps yourself...they can easily compete and surpass the Questyle Monoblock system for a third of a price.   

 

[3X0]

I'd rather spend $400-600 on a 323S and save up towards a Carbon/BHSE or greater than bother with the HV. One of the benefits of all the poop talk about Stax offerings is that they are available second-hand for very fair prices.

Re: meet impressions, I suspect many are not used to the differences in transient response that Stax bring over dynamics. They mistakenly attribute this difference as superiority by way of the "wow factor". The ethereal quality of electrostatics does nothing for me now so I would certainly choose a number of dynamic headphone setups (none involving Questyle, no offense) over popular electrostatic pairings e.g. KGSSHV + 009. When pricing is taken into consideration it's really no contest.

I prefer my current setup over every headphone system I've heard, but I'd sooner take a few dynamic chains over many electrostatic chains.

 

[purk]

I'd rather spend $400-600 on a 323S and save up towards a Carbon/BHSE or greater than bother with the HV. One of the benefits of all the poop talk about Stax offerings is that they are available second-hand for very fair prices.

Re: meet impressions, I suspect many are not used to the differences in transient response that Stax bring over dynamics. They mistakenly attribute this difference as superiority by way of the "wow factor". The ethereal quality of electrostatics does nothing for me now so I would certainly choose a number of dynamic headphone setups (none involving Questyle, no offense) over popular electrostatic pairings e.g. KGSSHV + 009. When pricing is taken into consideration it's really no contest.

I prefer my current setup over every headphone system I've heard, but I'd sooner take a few dynamic chains over many electrostatic chains.

What's your current setup?
 
Well we have similar rig and in a way enjoy similar audio things.  However, I still think that the KGSSHV is still quite a good deal assuming that you can get one less than $2400 in a  used market. They still represent a better bang for your bucks compared to all commercially available electrostatic amplifiers out there.