The Stax Thread III

[complin]

The 007 mk1's require a lot of voltage swing to make them sing and the SRM-007t and 717 were just not designed to deliver that.
They really do come alive on the SRM-T2 or BH/BHSE.
 
Quote:

I've mentioned that when I had the SRM-007t, it was driving the 007mk1's I once had, and I thought that amp didn't drive those 007's at all well.

 

[David1961]

I've heard both the 009 and 007mk1 with both the BHSE and SRM-007t, and I found the gap wasn't as wide when using the 009, as it was using the 007.

 

[astrostar59]

Yes I agree. But Stax don't make one at that level. My point is the gap between the Stax amps and the competition. I am responding to the posts by folk saying the gap is close, the 007t is real nice etc. The gap is BIG, and yes so is the money, but my point is the 007 and 009 scale to that level, and are held back by the Stax amps, the demo that mosts folk out their will hear and think that's as good as it gets. This stat hobby is exciting for me as there IS that upper level available by using better amps. It's a pity there is not more dealers WW who carry the more exotic amps.

 

[audiokid]

  Interesting reading about the alternative amps. I'm not in a position to be swapping just yet, but I'll look into the various options. Thanks for recommendations!
 
As I have become more familiar with both systems, I have grown to like the 009 system more. Saying that, there's a certain snap and 'twang' to the bass on the 507 that doesn't seem to be as present on the 009. I have tried the phones on the same amp also. 
 
Now, here's something that you may be able to answer... The 507s are very new and the pads feel very firm on my head, and the bass can almost be felt through the firm pads. The 009 have very soft, worn in pads and the bass is softer, deeper and more rounded. 
 
I'm guessing the phones naturally have different bass signatures, but wondered if the age of the pads is also making a difference? Might seem an absurd question, but the pads are essentially 'the room' which 'the hifi' sits inside of, so the age of the pads might make a considerable difference? 

Does anyone have any thoughts on the questions above? 

 

[zolkis]

  Interesting reading about the alternative amps. I'm not in a position to be swapping just yet, but I'll look into the various options. Thanks for recommendations!
 
As I have become more familiar with both systems, I have grown to like the 009 system more. Saying that, there's a certain snap and 'twang' to the bass on the 507 that doesn't seem to be as present on the 009. I have tried the phones on the same amp also. 
 
Now, here's something that you may be able to answer... The 507s are very new and the pads feel very firm on my head, and the bass can almost be felt through the firm pads. The 009 have very soft, worn in pads and the bass is softer, deeper and more rounded. 
 
I'm guessing the phones naturally have different bass signatures, but wondered if the age of the pads is also making a difference? Might seem an absurd question, but the pads are essentially 'the room' which 'the hifi' sits inside of, so the age of the pads might make a considerable difference? 

 
Your impressions mirror mine. However, I consider the 009 bass better than the 507 at least when we talk about instrument realism. The 507 may make a better impression with pop/electronic genres, but that's still an impression. The softer, deeper, and more rounded bass is the better one, IMO. In another thread, I just commented this: "often the short-term listening deceives people. I only believe in a combination of short-term and extended listenings. A simple test to tell whether you ear cheats you at the first/short listening is to ask yourself, which compared device's tonality feels "deeper" (as pink-noise-deeper) at the same perceived musical resolution: usually the one with the perceived deeper/softer/more relaxed tonality is the better one, and the other is harder sounding. 
 
In my experience, the pads age doesn't change the sound that much, if the filling doesn't shrink and the leather doesn't break. If the volume shrinks, the pads tend to sound a bit more open and lose some perceived bass, as the ears get closer to the membrane, and the sound stage may also change.

 

[audiokid]

Thanks, this is useful to read. 

 

[kevin gilmore]

in the next 5 years (or less) you can be sure of at least
3 statement amps, each from a different manufacturer.
2 of the 3 are virtually guaranteed to be much north of $10k

 

[greggf]

Kevin, can you say what manufacturers?  Are there actually three sources that can pull it off?  I look forward to at least one 10k boat anchor, for entertainment purposes. 

 

[MacedonianHero]

  Like I said, I heard the WES at a demo and it sent me running for the hills with its chilly highs and sent me happily back to my trusty 007t. Just my ears here.

That says more about the WES. In my experiences with that amp, I wouldn't blame you for sticking with the 007t (or 727II). 

 

I'm probably in the minority, but I disagree with the common idea of the Stax amps being poor: I've lived for one year with the 600ltd and tried on loan the 007i and they were both superb with the 009. There was no brightness or harshness, they probably are not the last word in terms of dynamics e soundstage but timbrically (which is by far for me the most important attribute) correct.
I only got a different amp because I wanted the best out of the 009 (for my budget and my musical preferences) and because these are my only headphones and I don't use speakers. I could have happily lived with a Stax amp

I think it comes down to priorities. I'm of the mindset that if one's going to invest in the SR009s (or SR007s), then they should really get the most they can get out of them. I think the SRM007/727II are quite good with those headphones, but at this level, I want more than "quite good"; instead I want close to the best. YMMV of course, just my perspective (and I did enjoy my SR-009s with the 727II quite a bit too).

 

[rgs9200m]

Thanks Mac for that. I should try and hear a KGSS sometime...

 

[astrostar59]

Ooh Kevin, what a tease! Now who are these guys? It would be exciting indeed to get more players in the top end stat amp market.
 
The BHSE is a great amp, but did not suit my lifestyle. SS suits me better. That is how the Stat market is IMO, some want EL34 tubes (WOO WES or BHSE) others want SS, others may like the cheaper but apparently also very good KGST, with it's low cost tubes.
 
Now if a statement amp that was SS could beat the BHSE, and could be built quicker than 1 year+ then that has me excited indeed. Or is it going to be a tubed T2 monster sized 2 box?
 
I always wonder why the top end Stat market isn't bigger as in more volume sales. Think how many audio fans sit at a computer at home for leisure nowadays. It was not happening 10-15 years ago.
 
Stax is still a relatively small company yet is the main player for electrostatic headphones. If the mass market who were serious about audio heard some of the high end Stat amps with the 007s or 009s, it would IMO get more sales through. I came to this point by error, by buying and selling various Stax models till I got the 009s and bought a KGSShv. It was not a planned strategy, or a dealer demo. I heard the 009s and the BHSE at a friends house, and read about the KGSSHv hear on this forum.
 
So, I am thinking, yes, there is a healthy market for a top Stat amp IMO, if it can be 'out their' somehow without the dealer markups and huge advertising costs to do that. Forum links and a well designed website would probably be key. And float it out as a beta to get some reviews back in to support it as a newbie on the scene, and show it a various head-fi meets.

 

[milosz]

  How did they get onto the forbidden planet?

Megatron brought them there.  They were getting a demo of a new Krell headphone amp.....

 

[arnaud]

I don't have insider info, but we all heard sennheiser working on a an Orpheus 2 and Stax has been looking at a t2 successor for while. Third player, headamp working on a successor to the BHSE, even smaller run, double the price?

As for SS (direct drive) amp is concerned, I'd hold my horses as, apart from the electric chair silicon carbide version, I don't recall Kevin or Birgir (when he wasn't censored that is) saying that components are thriving and the future is all rosy...

I also don't believe in the democratization of stat technology, Stax certainly did not do anything to win over the largest market share but electrodynamics and especially orthos are so much easier to handle. Stats have always been and will remain the niche within the niche IMO. Components shortage will only make things worse, gotta get used to it... I think there's a reason why Stax amps are underpowered and nothing better is easily coming out under their brand...

Arnaud

 

[David1961]

in the next 5 years (or less) you can be sure of at least
3 statement amps, each from a different manufacturer.
2 of the 3 are virtually guaranteed to be much north of $10k

Interesting that some amps may eventually be coming out costing above $10,000, but when it gets to that price, it's be hopes that if at a later date another amp comes out which betters the ones at $10,000, that the ones at $10,000 can be upgraded.
Because the K-01 I have wasn't cheap, rather than have to buy a new model which one has just come out called the K-01X, the old model K-01 can be upgraded to the SQ level of the new one.

I've recently heard that the old K-01 can be upgraded later this year to give the SQ of the new one, but when I first bought the K-01 ( old one ) I was told by the dealer that if there were any upgrades they could be done, at a price.

 

[wink]

Quote:milosz

 

  How did they get onto the forbidden planet?

Megatron brought them there.  They were getting a demo of a new Krell headphone amp.....

And, here I was under the delusion it was all caused by the over consumption of Robbie the Robot's synthetic single malt whiskey.
 
Those amps look more like Halcro Super Deluxe Uber ID versions of their DM78's. Planetary power station is optional.
 
Quote:Arnaud

 As for SS (direct drive) amp is concerned, I'd hold my horses as, apart from the electric chair silicon carbide version, I don't recall Kevin or Birgir (when he wasn't censored that is) saying that components are thriving and the future is all rosy...

It seems that in the last few years that the Silicon Carbide situation may be expanding.
 
Maybe a return to good old CRT technology or all tube design are the only viable options.
 
Long live the DIYT2 and Megatron.