The Stax Thread III

[makbrown]

A couple of pages ago I wrote about my unsuccessful experience of combining 009 with Kingsound M03.

Most people advised me KGSSHV. I see several KGSSHV Mini for sale. Am I right in thinking that it will be the same sound/amplification/performance, but placed in a slightly more compact case?

Or does it make sense to look deeper, since there are many more versions and differences?

 

[Chefguru]

A couple of pages ago I wrote about my unsuccessful experience of combining 009 with Kingsound M03.

Most people advised me KGSSHV. I see several KGSSHV Mini for sale. Am I right in thinking that it will be the same sound/amplification/performance, but placed in a slightly more compact case?

Or does it make sense to look deeper, since there are many more versions and differences?

Essentially no difference.... actually the mini's with the heatsink on the outside are more powerful than the new mjolnir kgsshv where it's all in-box. Supposedly that allowed for them to be set to a slightly higher output. As the owner probably noted, they take a few minutes of warmup to deal with the buzzing since everything is so close together. Easy to deal with.

 

[makbrown]

Essentially no difference.... actually the mini's with the heatsink on the outside are more powerful than the new mjolnir kgsshv where it's all in-box.

In other words, I can take Mjolnir Audio KGSSHV Mini and the question will be settled for some time (until I want to try something higher class Carbon/BHSE)?

 

[Chefguru]

In other words, I can take Mjolnir Audio KGSSHV Mini and the question will be settled for some time (until I want to try something higher class Carbon/BHSE)?

The kgsshv (mini or not) can run any estat headphone. Period. Even the 007.

The carbon/bhse/mt/t2 are an improvement, but many people will be content with the kgsshv as their endgame.

 

[Metalboyy]

Two days ago I was set on buying the Hifiman He1000se. Then I went to a Hifishow and listened to almost all Stax headphones.
Even the SR-X1 beat the full line up of Audeze phones except maybe the Lcd-5. I was blown away but now I dont what to buy now really Feels like all I have known was wrong. Or something like that.

 

[TheAbyss2022]

Two days ago I was set on buying the Hifiman He1000se. Then I went to a Hifishow and listened to almost all Stax headphones.
Even the SR-X1 beat the full line up of Audeze phones except maybe the Lcd-5. I was blown away but now I dont what to buy now really Feels like all I have known was wrong. Or something like that.

The HE1000se is a very detailed and technically proficient planar especially for the price point. The issues arise once you start comparing it to Stax headphones especially against something like the 009. The bass suddenly sounds muddy and undetailed, treble and midrange clarity falls off a cliff, lack of speed, imaging is not as fast and precise.

Estats have certainly ruined planar and dynamic headphones for me but in a good way. It's good that we now have ribbon headphones such as the Raal 1995 immanis as alternative options to Estats.

 

[Svperstar]

A couple of pages ago I wrote about my unsuccessful experience of combining 009 with Kingsound M03.

Most people advised me KGSSHV. I see several KGSSHV Mini for sale. Am I right in thinking that it will be the same sound/amplification/performance, but placed in a slightly more compact case?

Or does it make sense to look deeper, since there are many more versions and differences?

It should be the same as any other KGSSHV....and if there was a difference would you hear it?

I don't know how close you watch this thread but I posted a bit back about someone on another site afraid the KGSSHV didn't "have enough power"

I can't think of an estat it wouldn't drive

 

[makbrown]

afraid the KGSSHV didn't "have enough power"

As far as I understand, the question is not in power (not only in power).
Because there is Carbon with the same power as the usual KGSSHV, but it is different in sound, as well as twice the price.

Here, as I understand it, the question is not about power, but about synergy.
For example, I read something like: Carbon is great for 009S, but not for 009, because it is bright, and 009 is too bright.
But the regular KGSSHV is better.

(This is taken out of context, just as an example. I'm just trying to understand what would really be better for 009 and not for all the money in the world).

 

[mulveling]

As everyone is quick to reassure, almost any KGSShv should have 400V rails at a minimum (IIRC the "mini" versions are 400V), and enough power to drive anything. The full-size units also came in 450V and 500V flavors, with different parts, but it's harder to run these at higher current as you go up in V (more heat requires more heat sinking) - and that directly impacts high frequency extension (not bass, as you might assume from "high current amp" discussions with speakers). Whomever claimed that a KGGSHV might lack power either had a broken amp, or no actual experience with these amps. I play loud and have never, ever heard a properly running KGSShv clip or stress on any headphone, even by accident (I've heard a T2 clip lol). I've heard 5 versions.

The nuances between KGSShv versions is subtle if compared to lesser amps, because they are all badass on that front. BUT there are definitely sonic differences among them - and you don't need a "golden ear" to hear them (as I am certainly not equipped), just a certain level of obsession. I heard 2 of the earlier Mjolnir "mini" builds, and they were a little bright and lean to my ears. GREAT partner for the likes of 007, and probably ES1a. A little less ideal for 009 and L700, etc. I preferred full-size builds, but you need to know how to identify a trusty builder there - I have a 500V IXYS build I love sonically (this og IXYS version w/ onboard heat sinks is my favorite), but there were mistakes made with this particular unit regarding inadequate heat dissipation. You definitely DON'T want to find out what happens when these high-voltage transistors get stressed and overheated (noise, massive distortion, or outright failure). By contrast, Mjolnir will always give you a 100% reliable build with no problems ever, but the (new) prices seem quite high ($3300 for a KGSS Classic or KGST?). Then there was a 450V Sanyo parts version that was strangely warm - almost too damn warm, like it was trying too hard to beat tubes here - but quite good with 009.

FWIW I never saw the point in "minifying" e-stat amps. Portable, or small desktop systems - THIS IS NOT THE CORRECT APPLICATION FOR E-STATS

 

[Svperstar]

Here, as I understand it, the question is not about power, but about synergy.
For example, I read something like: Carbon is great for 009S, but not for 009, because it is bright, and 009 is too bright.
But the regular KGSSHV is better.

I read that the Carbon uses Mosfets that "sound as much like a tube as a non-tube amp can". Yet you have read the Carbon is bright.

So many contradictory opinions. I remember when Schiit released multibit they said the DACs they use "are for the medical field and the military where accuracy is paramount" then people saying they like the "warm" sound that multibit produces..........so its 100% accurate AND warm. All things to all people.

 

[Svperstar]

Whomever claimed that a KGGSHV might lack power either had a broken amp, or no actual experience with these amps.

The person who DMed me had never heard KGSSHV, they were getting into estats and had read too many ridiculous posts saying things like "before you buy estats you need to set aside $5,000 for a proper amp or they are going to sound like crap" and based off of that and not any technical knowledge they were terrified they were wasting money on estats unless they started with a Carbon and the KGSSHV simply wasn't up to snuff.

 

[mulveling]

I read that the Carbon uses Mosfets that "sound as much like a tube as a non-tube amp can". Yet you have read the Carbon is bright.

So many contradictory opinions. I remember when Schiit released multibit they said the DACs they use "are for the medical field and the military where accuracy is paramount" then people saying they like the "warm" sound that multibit produces..........so its 100% accurate AND warm. All things to all people.

Yes, I'm one of those who branded the Carbon as bright - to be clear the version I had was an early non-Mjolnir build. Mjolnir has made their own versions & refinements, and it could sound quite different - haven't heard one myself yet. But early hype around these Sic-FET based amps being "tube-like" or "great for 009" due to the Sic-FETs was misleading IMO. If you want tube sound, get tubes (noting that most e-stat tube amps are hybrids). The 450V Sanyo KGSShv is still the warmest SS amp I've heard, by a good margin - and it still doesn't sound exactly like tubes, it's just warm (warmer than BHSE, in fact).

In general, I don't like SS gear that ties too hard to sound warm or "tube like". It always starts to sound kind of flat and 1-dimensional (or 2D) at some point. Tubes can go very heavily to the warm side and still retain that 3D holography magic & articulation - but they're generally better when kept closer to neutral, too. And tube gear can also be made to sound bright, incisive, and/or shouty in the upper mids etc - I don't like that stuff either, in fact it's usually far worse than decent SS.

 

[padam]

A couple of pages ago I wrote about my unsuccessful experience of combining 009 with Kingsound M03.

Most people advised me KGSSHV. I see several KGSSHV Mini for sale. Am I right in thinking that it will be the same sound/amplification/performance, but placed in a slightly more compact case?

Or does it make sense to look deeper, since there are many more versions and differences?

KGSSHV + 009 was one of the worst pairings I've heard personally. Technically, it had good slam, but unbearable in the upper midrange and treble, so I am not sure why they advise it. I didn't hear it with a Carbon, but got to know the amp differences very well with other Staxes, so I can only imagine it would only be barely passable to my taste rather than very good, which is what one would expect considering the cost.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/post-17958656
I linked the Big Sound 2015 many times, where half of the people said what I think (and a few people amongst them pointed out that a 009 can sound better than this with careful matching - so far, not convinced) while others seemed to like it as-is for whatever reason...

I could stir the pot by telling why I sold my Carbon after 2 years, even though I tend to miss it more and more, as it is a big loss in certain aspects (hopefully only temporary), but that is maybe for another time. Kind of funny, goes way back to a 2007 post about the OG KGSS. Even with all the revisions, certain characteristics just don't seem to change, and a "more ideal" amp might not necessarily lead to a "more ideal" sound, and preferences towards one over the other is somewhat dependent on genres as well.
But one wouldn't know that from forums, since about 99.9% of the posts are about improvements without the potentially negative side-effects.

It seems to me, that a lot of things in audio comes from trying to figure out on our own after many years, and taking advice is mostly a gamble, unless there is existing knowledge as reference points to those opinions.

 

[makbrown]

KGSSHV + 009 was one of the worst pairings I've heard personally

I appreciate your opinion. At this point I have given up on the idea of a regular KGSSHV and am considering Carbon to 009 instead. I am trying to figure out how good a combination this is.

 

[Gradostax fan]

i met some one who complained that 009 with carbon sounded very bright.
And based on my experience with kgss i feel that KG designed amps are generally not ideal match for 009.