The Stax Thread III
Oct 15, 2021 at 7:25 AM Post #21,361 of 25,559
I would say that every upgrade is relative to our own expectations. That’s why auditioning before buying a new gear is always recommended.
Having said that, I won’t expect the S-Boostered 252 will be a lot better than the stock 252. The limitation of 252 is not just in its power supply.
 
Oct 17, 2021 at 7:00 AM Post #21,362 of 25,559
A few questions for anyone who can offer some experience/advice:

1. My favorite vintage Lambda is the Nova Classic due to its warmth and smoothness relative to a lot of the other Lambdas. That being the case, would I likely prefer the 007mk2 tonality over the 009?

2. Is the 007mk2 lower, but in the same general tier, as the 009 in terms of imaging and detail retrieval, or is the 009 much superior in these areas?

3. Will a 353X drive the 007mk2 "sufficiently" (not optimally, but sufficiently) or would that be a complete bust?

Basically I'm leaning towards a 007mk2 but if there is a distinct gap in technical performance between it and the 009 then I may go 009 instead despite some qualms about the tonality. Another factor is that by most accounts the 009 should be a better fit to drive with a 353X which is all I'll have on hand, other than an SRM-1/mk2 and a 252S which won't help much. I do plan to upgrade amp but not until I decide whether to get an actual amp or an iFi Iesl.
 
Oct 17, 2021 at 7:22 AM Post #21,363 of 25,559
The SR007 presents a slightly more diffuse image compared to the 009 and a slightly narrower head stage. It's a richer, fuller bass sort of presentation and much warmer. The 009 is a little better in imaging, and the treble is where the debate is, it's a pretty bright headphone. I prefer the 007. Yes the 009 is easier to drive. But a lot of the people who say you must have a carbon or bhse listen really LOUD. Honestly there isn't much difference between a 353X and SRM 1/mk2 (assuming it's been recapped, cuz it's pretty old). Both will power the 007 well enough unless you like to crank it. It isn't that a BHSE won't sound better (especially in the bass) but you won't care that much about the difference unless you like it LOUD. I have an SRX+ which delivers almost as much current (which is at least as important as voltage swing) as a BHSE or KGSSHV Carbon compared to other amps. I don't have the space for those amps. And honestly it's as good enough most of the time. I have a recapped SRM1/mk2 and it's really ok except for super bassy stuff or when I crank it (treble extension). Even then the differences are exaggerated.
 
Oct 17, 2021 at 7:43 AM Post #21,364 of 25,559
A few questions for anyone who can offer some experience/advice:

1. My favorite vintage Lambda is the Nova Classic due to its warmth and smoothness relative to a lot of the other Lambdas. That being the case, would I likely prefer the 007mk2 tonality over the 009?

2. Is the 007mk2 lower, but in the same general tier, as the 009 in terms of imaging and detail retrieval, or is the 009 much superior in these areas?

3. Will a 353X drive the 007mk2 "sufficiently" (not optimally, but sufficiently) or would that be a complete bust?

Basically I'm leaning towards a 007mk2 but if there is a distinct gap in technical performance between it and the 009 then I may go 009 instead despite some qualms about the tonality. Another factor is that by most accounts the 009 should be a better fit to drive with a 353X which is all I'll have on hand, other than an SRM-1/mk2 and a 252S which won't help much. I do plan to upgrade amp but not until I decide whether to get an actual amp or an iFi Iesl.

1. 007Mk2 and prefer blu-tac modded
007 is warm and 009 is bright, both are neutral headphones but different tonality and compliment each other very well.
2. 009 may have 10% more detail and resolution of 007 (according to @Tugbars ). The bright tonality helps this too. 007 is not lacking in anythings just difficult to pick it up because of warm tonality. The headstage of 007 is less wide but more 3D(the depth) than 009 (see image below in the mid represent it well of the definition of 3D)

ins.png


3. 353X will be just fine. But many prefer at least 717/727.

Last, the 007 is not performing well on big brand orchestras with a lot of instruments around. The headstage is too small in that regard. but 007 thump 009 in the modern music and the bass, while 009 has a better detail retrieval.
 
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Oct 17, 2021 at 8:00 AM Post #21,365 of 25,559
A few questions for anyone who can offer some experience/advice:

1. My favorite vintage Lambda is the Nova Classic due to its warmth and smoothness relative to a lot of the other Lambdas. That being the case, would I likely prefer the 007mk2 tonality over the 009?

2. Is the 007mk2 lower, but in the same general tier, as the 009 in terms of imaging and detail retrieval, or is the 009 much superior in these areas?

3. Will a 353X drive the 007mk2 "sufficiently" (not optimally, but sufficiently) or would that be a complete bust?

Basically I'm leaning towards a 007mk2 but if there is a distinct gap in technical performance between it and the 009 then I may go 009 instead despite some qualms about the tonality. Another factor is that by most accounts the 009 should be a better fit to drive with a 353X which is all I'll have on hand, other than an SRM-1/mk2 and a 252S which won't help much. I do plan to upgrade amp but not until I decide whether to get an actual amp or an iFi Iesl.
When running on Blue Hawaii SE, 007 had a much darker/warmer, less detailed (by quite much) presentation.
Wouldn't call 009 bright, its sound is very dependent on the amp. I use a tube pre-amp to make 009 sound naturally warm (but not dark) and smooth.
Unmodded, 007 didn't really sound like a proper electrostatic. Its tonality in the vocals wasn't great.
 
Oct 17, 2021 at 8:35 AM Post #21,366 of 25,559
1. My favorite vintage Lambda is the Nova Classic due to its warmth and smoothness relative to a lot of the other Lambdas. That being the case, would I likely prefer the 007mk2 tonality over the 009?

You might even prefer your Lambda over the 009... but you won't get the same bass extension, clarity, resolving power, tonal correctness.
Warmth and smoothness is achievable with the 009 as well, give it a good amp and source. Some treble hash and a bit of technical-feeling (less soul), but quite fine.
I prefer the the latest 007 over the latest 009, but I think the 009 are more universal, will appeal to more people as it sounds more open.

2. Is the 007mk2 lower, but in the same general tier, as the 009 in terms of imaging and detail retrieval, or is the 009 much superior in these areas?

Musical details are more apparent with the 009, partly since the big difference in FR in the 2-6 kHz domain, partly because of the difference in sensitivity and membrane thickness, too. I think both bass and mids are better resolving with the 009. However, the 007 may sound more coherent, but it's also because it's more forgiving to source equipment. Most source equipment today have a harshness, hardness or a technical sound profile, though in later years good advances happened.

3. Will a 353X drive the 007mk2 "sufficiently" (not optimally, but sufficiently) or would that be a complete bust?

Yes, it will drive it, even the 007 Mk1. A BHSE will not make it louder, but more complete, smoother and deeper. A Phenomenon amp is like a dynamic and spatial boost-bust in comparison (Mjölnir Carbon is a distant uncle).

Basically I'm leaning towards a 007mk2 but if there is a distinct gap in technical performance between it and the 009 then I may go 009 instead despite some qualms about the tonality. Another factor is that by most accounts the 009 should be a better fit to drive with a 353X which is all I'll have on hand, other than an SRM-1/mk2 and a 252S which won't help much. I do plan to upgrade amp but not until I decide whether to get an actual amp or an iFi Iesl.

If you are thinking in the context of the 353X or iFi, maybe better get a T1 with mods. But check out the value kings linked above, e.g. high-amp or Konka, or second hand Mjölnir stuff.

Overall, I think the 009 is safer bet for long term, especially now that the 009S and X9K are around as well. If you want slightly warmer sound to the 009, try the pad mod.
The same mod is doable for the 007, it opens up the sound a bit, actually it's even more suitable for the 007 than for the 009. Then, the 009 pads used on the 007 are another "mod", as they sound best on the 007 as well. Also, taking out the spring from the 007 ear pads (and eventually doing the pad mod) opens up the sound, bringing it up in resolving power as well. The port mod is another thing you can do. A lot of room to play with the 007.

Note that you should NOT listen critically to the 007 until it's adjusted properly to your head shape. For both the 007 Mk1 and Mk2, I needed to shape the headband to be flatter, i.e. provide more distance between the top of the drivers, and follow my head shape from there down, with a borderline lose fit, when bass is not diffuse yet, but it has most impact, depth and sound stage is biggest. I ended up the two headbands with slightly different shape, so that they track my head front to back as well. Your head may require different setting, but IMHO this kind of optimization is a must with any 007. I really liked the 007 headbands (less so for the ringing), as they allowed nice fine-tuning of the fit.

The 009 is not so sensitive about it, and its headband is not even adjustable for shape (only for size), unfortunately.
 
Oct 17, 2021 at 8:50 AM Post #21,367 of 25,559
Hello,

After being away from Stax for a few years, I got back in the game a few weeks ago and bought a pair of new L700s. Now that I'm adjusting to the sound signature, I'm really getting into them and in terms of listening experience, they're a step up from my 30-year-old Lambda Pros. L700s are definitely more 'luxuriant' than the leaner, sparer sound of the Pros, at least to my ears.

The thing is, I'm still using my old SRM-252S driver, which is actually making the L700s sound very decent already. Ideally I'd like to pick up a used 353X in the not too distant future but I've also wondered if SBooster would make a worthwhile improvement for less than 50% of probable cost of 353X. I'm working on a tight budget as I also hope to upgrade my Chord Qute to Qutest in the next 12 months.

So the question is, does anyone have experience of using SRM-252S with SBooster and what are their thoughts in terms of what differences they thought it made/makes to the sound and whether they consider it a worthwhile addition. I've read a number of reviews and impressions of SBooster, most of which appear to be very positive but none of them have specific to SRM-252S.

I should add that I'm no audiophile and don't consider myself to be over demanding in terms of what I expect in terms of SQ and volume or amount of bass required. These days I listen at lower volumes than in my younger, analogue days, rarely venturing above 9 o'clock on the volume knob. Even at these moderate levels, I find the L700s are so crisp and clean they sound vibrant and fairly full bodied. I mostly listen rock, blues, semi-acoustic and folk, etc.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Personally I like the STM-T1 with my L700 Mk2 a lot; but it is a tube amp - not everybody’s taste. I got the CCS / ECC99 modification btw. Sounds great even with the SR-009!

Later I got the high-amp.de SIRIUS V9 transistor amp - which I mostly use now.
 
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Oct 17, 2021 at 6:48 PM Post #21,369 of 25,559
A few questions for anyone who can offer some experience/advice:

1. My favorite vintage Lambda is the Nova Classic due to its warmth and smoothness relative to a lot of the other Lambdas. That being the case, would I likely prefer the 007mk2 tonality over the 009?

2. Is the 007mk2 lower, but in the same general tier, as the 009 in terms of imaging and detail retrieval, or is the 009 much superior in these areas?

3. Will a 353X drive the 007mk2 "sufficiently" (not optimally, but sufficiently) or would that be a complete bust?

Basically I'm leaning towards a 007mk2 but if there is a distinct gap in technical performance between it and the 009 then I may go 009 instead despite some qualms about the tonality. Another factor is that by most accounts the 009 should be a better fit to drive with a 353X which is all I'll have on hand, other than an SRM-1/mk2 and a 252S which won't help much. I do plan to upgrade amp but not until I decide whether to get an actual amp or an iFi Iesl.

There is a distinct technical gap between the 009 and the 007. Without question. 007 does have a smoother tonality for sure, and a thicker sound overall though.
 
Oct 17, 2021 at 9:31 PM Post #21,370 of 25,559
Thanks everybody for the advice and insights. Electrostats are not the most mainstream thing so it's awesome having a thread where I can ask questions and get like half a dozen great responses within a day.

Based on info in your responses and some further research, I think I will go in the direction of the 009. Frankly the 007 kind of intimidates me lol, I know the 009 also requires a very solid chain but with the 007 it seems like it requires a degree of resources that I'm not as prepared to put into it at the moment for it to really sound its best. That and I'm also allured by the prospect of maximum clarity and detail on the 009, I feel I'd keep it in rotation for those qualities even if the tonality doesn't necessarily make it a daily driver.

I'll look more into sourcing one and in the meantime continue to enjoy my "Stax mid-fi hell" with these vintage Lambdas, which is more like a mid-fi heaven because I love basically every single one of these things.
 
Oct 17, 2021 at 9:54 PM Post #21,371 of 25,559
what kind of music do you listen to?
I have a L700-ii and a 007A and heard the 009S only twice, but never heard the 009. I felt the 009S much more similiar to the lambda, specially at lower volumes and with less powerfull amps (Im not experienced with anything better than a 700T / 007T).

the 007A is ok , or a bit better than the L700 for some genres, but for classical it is probably a downgrade from the more transperency oriented L700, also less focus bassier passages, the L700 is tighter. Just wish the lambdas were more confortable though
 
Oct 18, 2021 at 5:52 AM Post #21,372 of 25,559
Personally I like the STM-T1 with my L700 Mk2 a lot; but it is a tube amp - not everybody’s taste. I got the CCS / ECC99 modification btw. Sounds great even with the SR-009!

Later I got the high-amp.de SIRIUS V9 transistor amp - which I mostly use now.

Thanks.

To be honest, I'm hoping to upgrade amp for less than £1k, but I did check out the Sirius a few weeks ago when you mentioned earlier in the thread and it did make me wonder. What do you like about it and how would you characterize the sound signature?

Even with the little 252S, I'm loving the tonality and vibrance of L700, especially with acoustic or semi-acoustic recordings. On the occasional track bass can sound like a ghostly blob but overall I don't find it underwhelming. I suppose when I 'upgrade' I'm hoping to get some additional texture and richness across the board and more separation and air between instruments. I'm not keen on the idea of tubes and auditioning amps isn't really a possibility due to my geographical location.
 
Oct 18, 2021 at 6:56 AM Post #21,373 of 25,559
Thanks.

To be honest, I'm hoping to upgrade amp for less than £1k, but I did check out the Sirius a few weeks ago when you mentioned earlier in the thread and it did make me wonder. What do you like about it and how would you characterize the sound signature?

Even with the little 252S, I'm loving the tonality and vibrance of L700, especially with acoustic or semi-acoustic recordings. On the occasional track bass can sound like a ghostly blob but overall I don't find it underwhelming. I suppose when I 'upgrade' I'm hoping to get some additional texture and richness across the board and more separation and air between instruments. I'm not keen on the idea of tubes and auditioning amps isn't really a possibility due to my geographical location.
Well, the SIRIUS is EUR1,650 but it has a less expensive brother at EUR650 (!!), the SIRRAH: https://www-high--amp-de.translate....sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=nui which also is a TRANSISTOR Amp (with XLR inputs, but could be had with RCA inputs on request).

Offer_Sirrah_V3_Front.jpg


Both sound neutral, the SIRIUS has a bit more punch, but depending on music preferences it may not be needed. I listen to Jazz, Acid-Jazz, Rock, and some R+B and Classic music at times and I use 13:00 hours at max. on the amp volume setting, so basically use only 60% of the max loudness it has. Why then did I not get the SIRRAH if you ask me - because of that "power hungry" 007 I also possess....and if I ever get an original OMEGA :wink:
 
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Oct 18, 2021 at 9:53 AM Post #21,374 of 25,559
Well, the SIRIUS is EUR1,650 but it has a less expensive brother at EUR650 (!!), the SIRRAH: https://www-high--amp-de.translate....sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=nui which also is a TRANSISTOR Amp (with XLR inputs, but could be had with RCA inputs on request).

Offer_Sirrah_V3_Front.jpg


Both sound neutral, the SIRIUS has a bit more punch, but depending on music preferences it may not be needed. I listen to Jazz, Acid-Jazz, Rock, and some R+B and Classic music at times and I use 13:00 hours at max. on the amp volume setting, so basically use only 60% of the max loudness it has. Why then did I not get the SIRRAH if you ask me - because of that "power hungry" 007 I also possess....and if I ever get an original OMEGA :wink:
who is building them?

I like that high-amp is showing some measurements of his amps in his website. He even shares crosstalk vs freq measurements! As a customer, I want to know more about what I'm buying.
 
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Oct 18, 2021 at 10:27 AM Post #21,375 of 25,559
who is building them?

I like that high-amp is showing some measurements of his amps in his website. He even shares crosstalk vs freq measurements! As a customer, I want to know more about what I'm buying.
Andreas Rauenbühler himself is building some amps and is offereing them on his site high-amp.de under OFFERS. But he also allows DIY solutions and has publisged PCB designs etc. on that site (not the newest versions though).

He usually allows a test period of 7 days "keep or return" (here in Europe, not sure about export).
 

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