[zworykin]

I don't think anyone who has experienced a breadth of gear over a long period of exposure would argue sound differentiation is easy, but to claim it's an
impossibility is just stupid.

Instead of harping how one should go to the Sound Science forum, why don't you start reading.

A good start that is easy to digest and understand the context of blind listening tests would be Tyll's Big Sound.
In case you aren't motivated to read, the blind-test employed validated provability of sound distinctions. Be it amps, headphones, DACs.

Shrugs.

On the positive side, at least the forum has a very convenient function for ignoring users who are not, in your view, contributing anything useful.

 

[Degru]

Anybody know a good EU compatible power brick to source for an SRM-212? I'm shipping one to a friend in Israel and this would be easier and cheaper to ship than buying 240->120V then 120V->100V stepdown. I forgot what the correct size was, currently looking at getting an iFi iPower just in case since I'm also worried about noise that any random chinese brick might have. Plus I can actually test it before sending since it works with both voltages.

 

[AudioThief]

I don't think anyone who has experienced a breadth of gear over a long period of exposure would argue sound differentiation is easy, but to claim it's an
impossibility is just stupid.

Instead of harping how one should go to the Sound Science forum, why don't you start reading.

A good start that is easy to digest and understand the context of blind listening tests would be Tyll's Big Sound.
In case you aren't motivated to read, the blind-test employed validated provability of sound distinctions. Be it amps, headphones, DACs.

Shrugs.

I remember reading that some time back, but I pulled it up again since you referenced it. I guess you're talking about this section:

"Objectivists will claim blind testing removes biases, but I think you just trade one set of biases for another. For example, most folks experience significant anxiety when faced with the small differences during blind tests—a lot of self-doubt can apear in the listener's mind, which leads to confusion and indecision. Also, when a listener begins to believe they've identified one of the selections, they then begin to superimpose a bias on that selection. The only way to combat these issues, it seems to me, is long experience with the technique of blind testing—and even then it's very hard. "

This is the exact sort of rationalising I was doing myself back when I believed the audio journey is an infinite progression upwards towards perfection, slowly increasing each element of my rig until nirvana. I wouldn't face the facts.

Anyways, Tyll says people are anxious and thus can't hear the difference. Look, if experienced listeners cannot identify the differences in a blind test, nevermind a double blind test, then for all intents and purposes, it isn't there! In the case of amps, unless poorly designed, which is NOT the case with Stax amps or Carbon, they will sound exactly the same, because they are operating properly, with sufficient power to give adequate listening levels.

You say its stupid to claim its impossible - okay, why? Would it be stupid for me to claim its impossible to improve my rigs fidelity by making sure I have an overhauled electricity system in my house so it is properly powered? I mean scientifically speaking, both of these cases are stupid, but to an audiophile, they seemingly makes equally sense.

The funny thing here is that I'm not here to discuss whether or not amps can or cannot make a difference - its the laughable claim that 007 or 009 "needs" third party amps to "come alive". Its just laughable. You could have people claim you must have a Mark Levinson streamer to make the HD800 really shine, anything else just won't cut it - nobody would stand for that kind of bs, not even here. But somehow, thats completely unchallanged when it comes to Stax amps.

 

[protoss]

Speaking on stax amps.

I recently listen to the Stax D50. And it was sublime. Truly a nice piece of gear.

I highly recommend people to check it out. And for new comers this can be a excellent start. It's a dac/amp combo.

Protoss recommends

 

[Tugbars]

There is a story which I've heard a while ago. Tyll was preparing for his youtube video where he shared his impressions on different electrostatic amplifiers. He actually couldn't find much difference between amps at first. He called someone who is expert at amp making and asked what he should look for to see differences in amps. Expert said "just turn the volume up". He was able to finish his impressions video thanks to this suggestion. : ) I'm not sure how true this story is. However, this is the case with amps most of the time.

 

[paradoxper]

I remember reading that some time back, but I pulled it up again since you referenced it. I guess you're talking about this section:

"Objectivists will claim blind testing removes biases, but I think you just trade one set of biases for another. For example, most folks experience significant anxiety when faced with the small differences during blind tests—a lot of self-doubt can apear in the listener's mind, which leads to confusion and indecision. Also, when a listener begins to believe they've identified one of the selections, they then begin to superimpose a bias on that selection. The only way to combat these issues, it seems to me, is long experience with the technique of blind testing—and even then it's very hard. "

This is the exact sort of rationalising I was doing myself back when I believed the audio journey is an infinite progression upwards towards perfection, slowly increasing each element of my rig until nirvana. I wouldn't face the facts.

Anyways, Tyll says people are anxious and thus can't hear the difference. Look, if experienced listeners cannot identify the differences in a blind test, nevermind a double blind test, then for all intents and purposes, it isn't there! In the case of amps, unless poorly designed, which is NOT the case with Stax amps or Carbon, they will sound exactly the same, because they are operating properly, with sufficient power to give adequate listening levels.

You say its stupid to claim its impossible - okay, why? Would it be stupid for me to claim its impossible to improve my rigs fidelity by making sure I have an overhauled electricity system in my house so it is properly powered? I mean scientifically speaking, both of these cases are stupid, but to an audiophile, they seemingly makes equally sense.

The funny thing here is that I'm not here to discuss whether or not amps can or cannot make a difference - its the laughable claim that 007 or 009 "needs" third party amps to "come alive". Its just laughable. You could have people claim you must have a Mark Levinson streamer to make the HD800 really shine, anything else just won't cut it - nobody would stand for that kind of bs, not even here. But somehow, thats completely unchallanged when it comes to Stax amps.

I'm referencing the entire Big Sound experience. That's the start of explaining minute variables which should at the very least be of consideration.
As a whole, the Big Sound illuminates the difficulties of such testing, but also shows demonstrable validation a listener can pass a blind-test.

As said, it's not easy but possible, therefore, yes, your assertion remains stupid.

You claim you aren't here to discuss whether or not amps can or cannot make a difference -- yet your below quote is contradictory.

First off, this isn't an argument that makes sense. Ask yourself, if it was for profit, as most companies are, would you then sway towards the sound difference not being there? There are many reasons why KG and Spritzer would want to make and sell their amps. They find it rewarding, they find it fun, they like the positive feedback the community gives them and so on. Does that mean there is actually a change in sound quality? No. Go to the sound science forum, or read somewhere on the internet about how amplifiers work, psychoacoustics, why it simply cannot be that these amplifiers alter the sound of either the 009 or 007 above the quality you get from the other stax amps. And I'd be very surprised if you could find either one of them, anywhere on the internet, make a statement about their amp flat out sounding better than the Stax amps. They can talk all day about being better designed, have better parts, be more optimal and so on and so forth, but sound? I doubt it. Because both of them understand that when their reviewers starts talking about how it made their headphone come to life with bigger soundstage, blacker background, more detailed and so on - its just in their heads, not the actual sound.


I'm not sure what context "needs a third party amp to come alive" apply. Either every "competent" amp sounds the same or not, right (perhaps putting words into your mouth.)
But this topic seems to be headed into convoluted territory.

Case in point: You could have people claim you must have a Mark Levinson streamer to make the HD800 really shine, anything else just won't cut it - nobody would stand for that kind of bs, not even here. But somehow, thats completely unchallanged when it comes to Stax amps.

Of course there are endless camps whom believe the HD800 necessitates x to sound the best. The same for the HE-6 and so on.

I think the basis of your thinking is nobody in those camps have ever employed rigorous double-blind testing to validate such claims.

And in which case, the entire topic of discussion in direct context better belongs only in the Sound Science forum.

Still though, I disagree with your absolutes on audio truth as "evidence" I provided (or just small scale example.)

I don't see this going anywhere except in circles.

 

[protoss]

Lol you always have to be brutal huh Mr. Hypocrite.

 

[paradoxper]

Lol you always have to be brutal huh Mr. Hypocrite.

Please advise what soft spoken words you'd rather I use.

 

[protoss]

Meh...

 

[walakalulu]

AudioThief suggests that he points out that different non Stax amps cannot make a significant improvement to sq in order to enlighten the uninitiated.
I would urge any newbie to Stax to make their own comparisons rather than rely on subjective opinions from others. If you hear no difference then that’s great.
Unfortunately for me after a year of listening to Stax amps my curiosity was piqued and I tried a couple of KG designs. I reckon if you hear no difference then you must have rocks for ears but the upside would be a considerable saving perhaps.

 

[Tarttett]

Anybody know a good EU compatible power brick to source for an SRM-212? I'm shipping one to a friend in Israel and this would be easier and cheaper to ship than buying 240->120V then 120V->100V stepdown. I forgot what the correct size was, currently looking at getting an iFi iPower just in case since I'm also worried about noise that any random chinese brick might have. Plus I can actually test it before sending since it works with both voltages.

What do you mean when you ask about the "size"?

 

[Degru]

What do you mean when you ask about the "size"?

Dimensions of the barrel plug. Also need to make sure it has the correct polarity.

 

[Tarttett]

I am not sure about the barrel dimensions, but the iPower does come with a polarity inverter adaptor.

 

[AudioThief]

[1]I'm referencing the entire Big Sound experience. That's the start of explaining minute variables which should at the very least be of consideration.
As a whole, the Big Sound illuminates the difficulties of such testing, but also shows demonstrable validation a listener can pass a blind-test.

[2]As said, it's not easy but possible, therefore, yes, your assertion remains stupid.

[3]You claim you aren't here to discuss whether or not amps can or cannot make a difference -- yet your below quote is contradictory.

First off, this isn't an argument that makes sense. Ask yourself, if it was for profit, as most companies are, would you then sway towards the sound difference not being there? There are many reasons why KG and Spritzer would want to make and sell their amps. They find it rewarding, they find it fun, they like the positive feedback the community gives them and so on. Does that mean there is actually a change in sound quality? No. Go to the sound science forum, or read somewhere on the internet about how amplifiers work, psychoacoustics, why it simply cannot be that these amplifiers alter the sound of either the 009 or 007 above the quality you get from the other stax amps. And I'd be very surprised if you could find either one of them, anywhere on the internet, make a statement about their amp flat out sounding better than the Stax amps. They can talk all day about being better designed, have better parts, be more optimal and so on and so forth, but sound? I doubt it. Because both of them understand that when their reviewers starts talking about how it made their headphone come to life with bigger soundstage, blacker background, more detailed and so on - its just in their heads, not the actual sound.


I'm not sure what context "needs a third party amp to come alive" apply. Either every "competent" amp sounds the same or not, right (perhaps putting words into your mouth.)
But this topic seems to be headed into convoluted territory.

Case in point: You could have people claim you must have a Mark Levinson streamer to make the HD800 really shine, anything else just won't cut it - nobody would stand for that kind of bs, not even here. But somehow, thats completely unchallanged when it comes to Stax amps.

[4]Of course there are endless camps whom believe the HD800 necessitates x to sound the best. The same for the HE-6 and so on.

[5]I think the basis of your thinking is nobody in those camps have ever employed rigorous double-blind testing to validate such claims.

[6]And in which case, the entire topic of discussion in direct context better belongs only in the Sound Science forum.

Still though, I disagree with your absolutes on audio truth as "evidence" I provided (or just small scale example.)

[7]I don't see this going anywhere except in circles.

[1]Where could the listener correctly pick out differences in amps? There is vast amount of evidence to the contrary with way more rigorous testing methods. Either way, the difference between so similar amps as the stax amps and carbon is even less likely to be audible than any other combination of regular amps.

[2] Its not easy but not impossible to hear the differences between different power supplies either. So its equally as likely to you, yes or no?

[3] My apologies, I misspoke. What I meant was that my goal behind this discussion isn't to argue about amps, but rather to argue about the specific amps in question. Of course to argue my points throughout the debate, the topic of differences between amps will come up since its so closely related to the topic. And yes, every competent amp will sound the same because their job is to simply amplify the signal and not distort it. It cannot change the sound of the headphones unless its doing something wrong. Stax amps and Carbon amps aren't doing anything wrong with the signal, so they sound the same.

[4] The consensus in the audiophile community is that the HD800 is "amp picky", without any actual reason for it, nor any characteristics in amp specifications that makes them sound better or worse. Just that generally, you need a costly amp to make them sing. Sounds familiar to other types of audiophoolery. Its similar to the Stax-situation, except with the HD800 you can kindof buy any old amp and say it works wonderfully, and some might disagree, others will agree. While when it comes to Stax, because of the stax mafia influence, its literally "you MUST spend the money for a carbon, or you're leaving sound on the table!".

[5] The basis of my thinking is that it makes zero sense in terms of how the physics behind of work, we know for a fact that placebo and biases plays a much larger role in high end audio equipment than the actual difference in sound, and in the end, we have a large body of blind testing a large array of audiophile equipment proving the case.

[6] There is a reason why I'm not just laying out a large list of proof for why the Carbon cannot possibly sound better than a 353x, and why the difference in sound is all in your head - sound science is prohibited outside the dedicated sub forum. Therefore the discussion is more philosophical or argumentative or whatever you wanna call it, instead of rigorously scientific. This topic is dangerously close to being prohibited material, however I think its so bad and egregious in the case of amps for stax headphones that I think it would be crazy if it were to be disallowed to talk about how ridiculous the sentiment that only the Carbon makes the 009 or 007 really tick.

[7]Most discussions do. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have them. Because there are readers out there who might not even type a reply, but have great use of this exact disussion. Maybe they'll go and do further research on the way amplifiers work and save themselves some money.

AudioThief suggests that he points out that different non Stax amps cannot make a significant improvement to sq in order to enlighten the uninitiated.
I would urge any newbie to Stax to make their own comparisons rather than rely on subjective opinions from others. If you hear no difference then that’s great.
Unfortunately for me after a year of listening to Stax amps my curiosity was piqued and I tried a couple of KG designs. I reckon if you hear no difference then you must have rocks for ears but the upside would be a considerable saving perhaps.

There are multiple thing wrong with this. First of all, most people do not have access to this built-to-order amplifier from Iceland unless they cash out for it. Further, sighted testing is a bad, bad way of figuring out if the difference is there or not. I would make the same statement about my Schiit Eitr, my Gustard X20 pro, my upgraded cables - until one day I realized hey, is the sound ACTUALLY different, or is my mind playing tricks on me? When I managed to actually be honest with myself, listen to people with actual technical knowledge, realizing that the DAC couldn't in any possible way have the impact I honestly thought it did (and same with usb to coax converter, cables and so on), I could sell it all off, and have equally good sound with a cheaper setup, focusing on what mattered.

 

[ired]

@Degru

The SRM-212 uses a 12 VDC, 400 ma supply with negative polarity i.e. the center pin in negative and the outer barrel is positive.
You can and should use a larger current supply if you can. A 3A or 1A supply will likely perform better.
I don't know the plug dimensions but it would almost certainly be 5.5 x 2.1 mm, the same as the SRM-252A.