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The Stax Thread III

Discussion in 'High-end Audio Forum' started by currawong, Aug 20, 2013.
  1. tigon_ridge
    Graphene wouldn't be the coating, but the diaphragm core structure. Graphene would be the ideal material, due to its high strength to weight and thickness ratio (can potentially be a single layer lattice of carbon). It would necessarily be coated with an insulating material.
  2. bearwarrior
    The closest driver I have seen is graphane which is terminated with oxygen on the graphene surface. But the driver itself is still based on insulating polymer. Due to the nature of graphene, it needs at least ~10 nm thickness with minimum defects so that it can accomplish the requirement of the driver. The current graphene manufacture to make this will cost a fortune. Until the manufacture reduces the cost, maybe 5-10 years, people might start to see some products with graphene driver. It may take another 5 years to get a legendary product. But, it is possible. IT TAKES TIME. and much more than people think.
    n3rdling likes this.
  3. chinsettawong
  4. protoss

    Theres hype going around thats why

  5. tigon_ridge
    The link to the kickstarter. Most of it screams "SCAM."

    It's all marketing BS aimed at newbie audiophiles—until it gets to the technical BS:

    "Speakers are probably the least efficient technology that we still use in our day to day lives. Less than 1% of the electrical power that goes into a speaker is converted into sound power. Graphene’s lightweight and low density properties means that it requires a lot less energy to move the membrane and produce sound."

    Most of the mass in a dynamic driver isn't necessarily in the diaphragm. Unless they can make the cone and coil out of graphene as well, the benefit to an ultralight diaphragm is moot. It would have to be astronomically tensioned in order to produce high frequencies, since graphene is extremely flexible. That tension would require the graphene to be so extremely thickly layered, it would cancel out the weight advantage of the material. Funny how even with the "lightweight and low density" of existing electrostatic and planar-dynamic diaphragms, it still requires big, power-hungry amps to optimally drive them, except for a few planars.
    n3rdling and protoss like this.
  6. protoss

    Joshua basically said the same thing you just said in the video I linked lol.

    Soo.... Yea..... :L3000::beyersmile::beerchug::deadhorse:
  7. Tugbars
    Those are Perun, russian electrostatic headphones. Unfortunately their reputation isn't very high.
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  8. thinker
    finally a Carbon killer

    carbon killer.jpg
    Lord Rexter and BreadMaster like this.
  9. thinker
    this is not Perun
  10. n3rdling
    Man, kickstarter etc are incredible. Well over half a million USD raised for a HP campaign filled with nonsense, pseudo-science, buzzwords , and intentionally misleading statements. I wish I lacked a conscience so I could start promoting.

    I'm not even going to go over how much BS is on their page, but I'd like to at least comment on what you guys are talking about: A single-atom layer sheet of graphene is not practical for estat diaphragm applications. It is extremely conductive, so a layer of insulation would need to be bound to it (reducing mass advantages) and the graphene would need to be insulated from the bias line completely which would be very hard at that scale. An electrostat with a conductive diaphragm (they exist) exhibits orders of magnitude more distortion than traditional stats, and stat fans naturally hate distortion - that's like half the point of using stats. It has been done before for a PhD thesis, but their only goal was to be the first to do it, not to actually reach X levels of quality. Additionally, it is very brittle, and simply dropping the HP a few inches would be enough to shatter the diaphragm.

    Graphene and family have great promise for audio, but these are still underdeveloped industries, and incorporating them into our products would require a complete overhaul of current build standards at the very minimum.
    arnaud likes this.
  11. soren_brix
    hows that?


    Looking at the specs provided, the amp most likely has ~325-350V rails, and around <10mA output stage current ...
    and sounds a bit like a 323/353 type-of-thing based on an switch mode power supply.

    Jones Bob and arnaud like this.
  12. thinker
    i'm going to test the amp maybe in two weeks,it's an improved version of Carbon( i cannot go into details) and well suited for phenomenon headphones and probably SR-009
  13. soren_brix
    GarageBoy, arnaud and Trance_Gott like this.
  14. Sound Eq
    looking forward to your impressions, but when you say its an improved version of Carbon, that is a huge claim, did you base the claim on specs and how it was made and components used, or just by reading what others say bout its sound. Then comes its driving capability, if it can not drive the 007 as the carbon, then how would that be an improved version over the carbon
    billqs and BreadMaster like this.
  15. tumpux
    What exactly is it?

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