The Stax Thread III
Feb 23, 2019 at 12:12 PM Post #17,236 of 21,214

Whitigir

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Is Taylor Swift's album true AAA: recorded, mastered and distributed with all analog technology and free of any digital links?
Honestly, as good as it sound, it is a wishful thinking to have all the analog recording done without any digital in this modern age.....hence I said the 70-80 original analogs are gold.

Still, her albums quality is much better than others, except the floor noises lol
 
Feb 23, 2019 at 12:25 PM Post #17,237 of 21,214

JimL11

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I am interested to buy the following amp, it can driver stax, balanced headphone and normal speakers, he is a diy guy from former audio Japanese company. he is listing the specs in the page, could someone be kind enought to compare stax specs to a kgss or stax 353x ?
https://www.ishinolab.com/modules/doc_merchandise/original/masters/sx-3000bdg_sp.html
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.ishinolab.com/modules/doc_merchandise/original/masters/sx-3000bdg_sp.html

btw, his amp have very goods reviews
https://minkara.carview.co.jp/userid/222143/blog/40658217/
https://ocarina-style.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2016-10-06

So, of course, one cannot judge sound quality by specifications alone. The price of 180,000 yen = $1625 according to my currency converter. Nevertheless:

Max output: 550Vpp = 190 Vrms

Distortion: 0.1% at 100Vrms, 1 kHz

Freq response: 10-100 kHz at 50V output

Gain: 59 dB for e-stat headphones, 48 dB for speakers (note most speaker amps have 20-26 dB, 48 dB is 100x greater than usual), no spec for dynamic/planar headphones, which are usually around 10 dB)


By comparison, Stax 353x

Max output: 400 Vrms (roughly double the max output = 6 dB higher volume)

Distortion: 0.01% at 100Vrms, 1 kHz (solid state amps tend to have better distortion specs than vacuum tube amps)

Freq response: DC to 90 kHz into SR-L headphone (no output level given, but in the past Stax has always used 100VRMS output)

Gain: 60 dB


The KGSS has been superseded by other designs, but specs from KG's original article (copyright 2000):

Max output: 1200Vpp = 420 Vrms

Distortion 0.008% at 800Vpp (280 Vrms) from 20-20kHz

Freq response: DC-45kHz into Omega II, no output level specified.

Gain: 60 dB


So, in a nutshell, max output voltage is half, distortion is higher, gain is very similar.

According to the website, the output uses plate chokes (i.e. an inductor). Now, plate chokes have their lowest impedance at low frequencies, whereas Stax headphones resemble a capacitor and have their highest impedance at low frequencies. Music tends to have its maximum levels at low frequencies (below middle C). This means that most of the amplifier power will go to driving the plate chokes (i.e. wasted as heat) rather than driving the headphones, which is the whole point of the exercise.This not only wastes power, but increases distortion. By comparison, both the Stax and KG designs use constant current output loads, which allows the bulk of the output power to drive the headphones. The Woo WES used plate choke outputs with a more powerful output tube (EL34) than the 6V6 used in this amplifier, and had mixed reviews.

Finally, as a general rule, amps which can work with normal headphones, e-stat headphones and speakers are a compromise which are not optimum for any as the requirements for each type of transducer are so different.
 
Feb 23, 2019 at 12:53 PM Post #17,238 of 21,214

JimL11

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I would also add that a choke (inductor = L) and an electrostatic headphone, which resembles a capacitor, form a resonant circuit. For example, an e-stat headphone resembles a capacitor of about 100 pF (C), which in combination with a plate choke of, say, 100H, has a resonance at about 1.6 kHz. Since this resonant frequency varies as the square root of LC, there is no practical way to move this resonance out of the audible range, as you would need to use an inductor of 15,000H to get it up to 20 kHz. You can minimize it by having a large resistance in series with the inductor, and the amount of wire needed would probably do nicely, but you cannot completely eliminate it.
 
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Feb 23, 2019 at 1:23 PM Post #17,239 of 21,214

formyears

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Honestly, as good as it sound, it is a wishful thinking to have all the analog recording done without any digital in this modern age.....hence I said the 70-80 original analogs are gold.

Still, her albums quality is much better than others, except the floor noises lol
thats SONY. a while back SONY made her video in 4k when it was very expensive.
 
Feb 23, 2019 at 1:25 PM Post #17,240 of 21,214

formyears

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I would also add that a choke (inductor = L) and an electrostatic headphone, which resembles a capacitor, form a resonant circuit. For example, an e-stat headphone resembles a capacitor of about 100 pF (C), which in combination with a plate choke of, say, 100H, has a resonance at about 1.6 kHz. Since this resonant frequency varies as the square root of LC, there is no practical way to move this resonance out of the audible range, as you would need to use an inductor of 15,000H to get it up to 20 kHz. You can minimize it by having a large resistance in series with the inductor, and the amount of wire needed would probably do nicely, but you cannot completely eliminate it.
need serious iron for 15k Henries of inductance, and it will be quite large.
 
Feb 23, 2019 at 2:39 PM Post #17,241 of 21,214

protoss

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I feel driving a 009 with 727II is like fueling a Porsche with #87 gas

The gas will be a balance R2R Dac or another good balance dac. It is also great with 1984 to 94's legendary CD-players with those best analog sounds.
Also good cooper interconnects will smooth the edges of the 727. And proper Audio files can easily get to 5K level amps.

Guess my main argument is to get the best performances for fraction of the price. I believe it is possible.
 
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Feb 23, 2019 at 2:52 PM Post #17,246 of 21,214

protoss

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That is an awesome respond, I love it whenever people disagree with me. We dont have to agree on everything, and that is what making the world insteresting :)

okay well I heard about 10 or more CD-players from 1984 to 1994. The legendary ones. i named a few on my name name.

Philips TDA1543 /1541 DAC' has pretty much analog sounds to them. and many more i dont want to name. Just click name lol
 
Feb 23, 2019 at 2:57 PM Post #17,249 of 21,214

formyears

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okay well I heard about 10 or more CD-players from 1984 to 1994. The legendary ones. i named a few on my name name.

Philips TDA1543 /1541 DAC' has pretty much analog sounds to them. and many more i dont want to name. Just click name lol
i have the first gen SONY CDP. it has a copper plating everywhere and external connector for data processing.
 

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