The Sennheiser "veil"

[F1GTR]

It's the blatant wording of the comment and yes, it was called for.

Grado "might be" good at something, but Sennheiser, with certainity, "will trounce". Give me a break.

robm321 already covered it, then you replied with:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I never! I certainly do not! Of course, I will defend my favorite phones, but I have no problem admitting that other people simply won't like them. I even admitted that the particular equalization used for the HD650 might not work with everybody's ears...

You never? More like you always. I suppose it's a matter of perception.

You don't "have to" do anything, yet everytime an HD650 thread comes around one could bet the farm that you'll be present defending them to the death as if someone has insulted one of your family members. If you have no problem admitting that other people won't like them, then why must you imply over and over and over again that "those people" just aren't hearing what you're hearing.

The true irony here is that these kind of "debates" never exist outside of the mid-grade headphones.

 

[donunus]

I too was a grado fan. When I had HD580s and sr80s with the stock flats a long time ago. The 580s only got used when listening to ballads like christopher cross type stuff. The sr80s was used for all my 80s/90s new wave and modern rock at the time. Even smooth jazz/fusion sounded better to me on the grados. Now with the 595 around, sennheiser has answered my prayers and that hollowness and veil that bothered me in the 580s are gone

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

I will. Thats why I have already designed a custom manufaktur Beyer ... I just need to go listen to one first

Which models are you considering?

 

[hYdrociTy]

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Senn veil, grado sparks, beyer cave.... what does it matter? Its just a design of the headphones to have a certain sound signature, not some kind of design fault, or something that is "draped" over the drivers. Popular opinion doesn't denote some kind of wrong, just as in any other can. There will always be opinions, and I truly believe this is beating a dead horse because even the exact borderline between having a veil and not having one will vary.. Instead of objectifying a certain sound with a word (veil) that is usually negative, try to think of it as just different.

 

[ev13wt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which models are you considering?

Closed and semi.

While I'm at it heres the design pics

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ev13wt /img/forum/go_quote.gif Closed and semi. While I'm at it heres the design pics

Just to say, if you want humped up bass and treble, but recessed mids, go for DT770. If you want flat sound with no real dominance in either region, except slightly more presence in treble (because of small 10khz spike mainly) and therefore not so pumping bass, go for DT880.


For somewhat middleground of both, go for full-lopen DT990.

 

[jjhatfield]

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Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif ZOMG LOLZ J00 SUXX0R N00B!!!!!!!!111111eleven

 

[ev13wt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just to say, if you want humped up bass and treble, but recessed mids, go for DT770. If you want flat sound with no real dominance in either region, except slightly more presence in treble (because of small 10khz spike mainly) and therefore not so pumping bass, go for DT880. For somewhat middleground of both, go for full-lopen DT990.

I don't think the open will suit me, I really don't like the hear everything else type of listening. In a studio there is always that presence of "nothing". I like that. I need silence and "decapsulation" of the world around me

I need to listen to them all. Maybe taking out some bass on the 770 might provide perfect for rocking out and well, holistic easy listening.

 

[lmilhan]

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Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Veil is always yearning to get closer to the music but not being able to quite get there leaving me unfulfilled. Recabling, balanced amping, nothing has been able to make them sound involving enough for me - some get satisfaction out of them... unfortunately I just can't... maybe I'll try again for the 100th time. I really want to enjoy them but...

Ditto, except for the part where I will be trying for the 100th time, I gave up after 3 attempts.

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ev13wt /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think the open will suit me, I really don't like the hear everything else type of listening. In a studio there is always that presence of "nothing". I like that. I need silence and "decapsulation" of the world around me I need to listen to them all. Maybe taking out some bass on the 770 might provide perfect for rocking out and well, holistic easy listening.

Despite being semiopen, DT880 leaks sounds in too. Its open in that department.
Dunno for rockability of DT770, but i doubt it cuz it has recession in mids and guitars get their power from uppermids. But it will certainly fill your bassdrum needs!

 

[humanflyz]

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Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif No, I don't think that the HD650 is the end all be all for everyone. I do think that we seem to say everyone should aspire to the k1000, R10, HE90, or O2 on here...when I'm not sure it's a given that there's an ultimate. I just know that I completely am at peace with the HD650 with my setup and music tastes.

Well how can you make that judgment when you haven't heard all of the high-end products? You say that you have heard the K1000s and prefer the HD650s. That's fine by me, since that's a credible statement. But since you haven't heard other stuff in the comparable price-range, then why isn't it possible for people who have heard them to say that IN COMPARISON, the HD650s have a "veil", whatever that may be, compared to the likes of the R10, Orpheus, or O2s?

 

[GreatDane]

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Originally Posted by J-Pak /img/forum/go_quote.gif Have you read Darth Nut's STAX Omega 2 review?: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41442 This is the single best post I have read on any message board. It's not really even a review of the Omega 2. More for what to listen for in music.

Thanks for that link J-Pak, I'd never seen that before...it took a while to get through and digest the listening terms(I skipped some of the Stax review parts).

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by humanflyz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well how can you make that judgment when you haven't heard all of the high-end products? You say that you have heard the K1000s and prefer the HD650s. That's fine by me, since that's a credible statement. But since you haven't heard other stuff in the comparable price-range, then why isn't it possible for people who have heard them to say that IN COMPARISON, the HD650s have a "veil", whatever that may be, compared to the likes of the R10, Orpheus, or O2s?

To continue to beat a dead horse: I'm not talking about all people!!!!!! Isn't that it's different strokes for different folks? Isn't it possible for those that not hear this veil can enjoy the HD650??? I'm sorry the k1000 doesnt' have the tonality for my ears....just as the HD650 doesn't for you. I don't have to hear the stated end all be all here, since I pick a headphone based on what tonality I'm looking for. I pick my headphone based on my music. I don't need to feel the sense that I must spent $15k on a headphone just to possibly get the same tonality but better headstage or speed vs the HD650..I play music and I know what tonality I'm looking for..I don't need to listen to more expensive headphones to tell me what tonality I should be looking for

The Senns works great for my purposes of symphonies, electronica, and alternative music: they're right on what I play.

Geeze how about we focus less on one ultimate headphone when we've ascertained it doesn't exist: especially since everyone has different ears and preferences. I think we lose sight of the fact that it's about perception and musical reproduction of the music that we like: no one here has the same ears or music preference. For those who do aspire to go for the $15k stats, go for it. Now I'm not going to respond to this horse again

I'll sit back and let people continue with the ridiculous flame

 

[iGig]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hYdrociTy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Instead of objectifying a certain sound with a word (veil) that is usually negative, try to think of it as just different.

I agree with this. We're all different people with different ears and different taste.
Most people like grados for metal but my ears didn't, not even after changing my source, pads and amp.
I finally accepted that my hearing is different than most (maybe too sensitive) and at the end of the day my ears decide what headphones I use.
Now I use HD650 and I couldn't be happier, from day one I could tell this headphone was better suited for me. Now I'm a sennheiser "fanboy" and I recommend all metal-heads get their fix thru speakers.

In a nutshell, this has been my personal headfi experience:

HD650 = total enjoyment during long listening sessions with many types of music.
SR225 = ear pain, ringing and headaches after a few minutes of listening.

This leads me to believe that "veil" is something good for my hearing health.

 

[iGig]

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Now I'm not going to respond to this horse again

oh, c'mon... you know you will....

PS: I agree with you.