The Schiitstorm: Next-Gen Magni 2 and Modi 2 Family!
Dec 30, 2014 at 11:43 PM Post #886 of 1,909
   
 
The USB port might be bus powered, however, the balance of the circuitry derives power from wall wart and linear power supply. I like the Uber, you're getting plenty of DAC for $150.

 
I found the reference thanks to your help Music Alchemist - thank you for your time posting the reminder, I mayhaps have glazed through the last 10 pages a bit too carelessly.  This is good data to shelve when evaluating the up coming impressions of the Modi 1 vs Modi 2 vs Mod2 uber vs Bifrost.
 
Dec 30, 2014 at 11:59 PM Post #887 of 1,909
Ordered the 17th shipped today! Won't be in town for a month starting tomorrow hahaha. Need to find a way for it to not be left on my doorstep
 
Dec 31, 2014 at 1:33 AM Post #888 of 1,909
 
Mr. Jimmers,
 
The Clock actually does make a significant difference.   
 
Try to locate a Mastering Studio that doesn't rely on one! 
 
Even the large A-Narional Road Shows are now using the 10M clock. 
 
Now-a-days the little recording studios are trending towards the Atomic Clock where they were relying on an Oven Controled Crystal Clock. 
 
This is how all the music and video you ever see is created.  
 
It is kinda pricy for consumers who cope with bare crystals hard wired in their little DAC.  
 
Tony in Michigan 

 
True, but those studios need a master clock for synchronization between all the digital devices.  If you only have one transmitter (transport) and one receiver (DAC), than a separate clock isn't as important.  But when you have several components that need to communicate in sync and process a real-time stream of data (A/D, effects processors, compressors, D/A, etc) then a master clock can make a big difference in eliminating pops and clicks and other digital timing issues.
 
Dec 31, 2014 at 3:37 AM Post #889 of 1,909

Mr.Ivorykid,
 
Yes, true, good point.
 
However, one source or many, a stable accurate clock is required.  
 
The Consumer version of the Professional DAC system ( the Antelope Zodiac ) will feature an optional Atomic Clock ( pricy but available ) , the standard issue Clock is an Oven Controlled Crystal Clock.  
 
I think we are in agreement on this matter so there is no debate here. 
 
Are you part of the recording industry? 
 
Tony in Michigan 
 
Dec 31, 2014 at 5:49 AM Post #890 of 1,909
Ordered the 17th shipped today! Won't be in town for a month starting tomorrow hahaha. Need to find a way for it to not be left on my doorstep

 
Ouch ! Are you going to be in the states while you are gone? Maybe you can request that the shipping company have the package forwarded to another address (hopefully the one you will be at for that Month). You may have to pay a bit more but the alternative is to have a box of schiit on your porch for a month.Its worth a call
 
I placed My order on the 17th as well, I am going to be glued to my email account like a hawk now.
 
Dec 31, 2014 at 8:01 AM Post #891 of 1,909
 
Mr.Ivorykid,
 
Yes, true, good point.
 
However, one source or many, a stable accurate clock is required.  
 
The Consumer version of the Professional DAC system ( the Antelope Zodiac ) will feature an optional Atomic Clock ( pricy but available ) , the standard issue Clock is an Oven Controlled Crystal Clock.  
 
I think we are in agreement on this matter so there is no debate here. 
 
Are you part of the recording industry? 
 
Tony in Michigan 

You never answered the simple question of, in what way will a few PPM error in the clock affect the sound in a consumer DAC. The answer is nothing tangible. If you are so into an atomic clock, then why are you interested in the Modi?
 
Dec 31, 2014 at 8:54 AM Post #893 of 1,909
   
Ouch ! Are you going to be in the states while you are gone? Maybe you can request that the shipping company have the package forwarded to another address (hopefully the one you will be at for that Month). You may have to pay a bit more but the alternative is to have a box of schiit on your porch for a month.Its worth a call
 
I placed My order on the 17th as well, I am going to be glued to my email account like a hawk now.

 
I'll be here in the US.  Ya, that's a good idea I think I will do that.  I can't have it sent to my house unattended.  Our neighborhood is nice but a box at a front door for weeks tells people nobody is home, and people will pick up on that right away.  Thanks for the idea!
 
What are people's preferences for the rubber feet that Schiit includes with the small stack products? Using all 4 in corners, three as in the picture below, or something else entirely?


 
I'm going to do all 4
 
Dec 31, 2014 at 9:09 AM Post #894 of 1,909
So in a nut shell if im wanting to upgrade from the Magni 1 I shouldn't waste my money on a magni 2 for there is not much if any sound difference?  I should instead go and buy an Asgard 2 or even the Valhalla 2 if its within my price range and assuming I want to stick with the Schiit brand? Thank you :)
 
Dec 31, 2014 at 9:15 AM Post #895 of 1,909
  So in a nut shell if im wanting to upgrade from the Magni 1 I shouldn't waste my money on a magni 2 for there is not much if any sound difference?  I should instead go and buy an Asgard 2 or even the Valhalla 2 if its within my price range and assuming I want to stick with the Schiit brand? Thank you :)

I've heard that the sound difference between the 1 and 2 is fairly significant.  Less strident, a little more relaxed and smooth.
 
I haven't hard the two myself, though, so I'm only passing this on 2nd hand.  From someone I consider to be a very reliable source, however...
 
Dec 31, 2014 at 9:42 AM Post #896 of 1,909
I've just heard from others say that they're both flat and sound is very similar.  I don't know if these are reliable sources or not for I haven't sampled the both of them either.   Thank you for your quick response
 
Dec 31, 2014 at 9:47 AM Post #897 of 1,909
  I've just heard from others say that they're both flat and sound is very similar.  I don't know if these are reliable sources or not for I haven't sampled the both of them either.   Thank you for your quick response

I imagine a lot of it depends on how well trained your ears are and what sources you have connected to the Magni 1/2.  
 
Small differences to some are giant chasms to others...
 
After several years of jumping around and trying different things, I've finally realized that I'm perfectly content with Schiit's "entry-level" gear.  I'm settled on the Modi 2 Uber/Vali combo and am quite content.  YMMV, of course...
 
Dec 31, 2014 at 10:18 AM Post #898 of 1,909
  So in a nut shell if im wanting to upgrade from the Magni 1 I shouldn't waste my money on a magni 2 for there is not much if any sound difference?  I should instead go and buy an Asgard 2 or even the Valhalla 2 if its within my price range and assuming I want to stick with the Schiit brand? Thank you :)

If you guys have not read the what I will call now ebook that Jason from schiit has posted you should its a great read he addresses Magni 2 and Magni 2 Uber as well.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/4455#post_11156943
 
 

From the Man Himself
Staying within the original Magni budget meant fairly limited changes, but it still did allow for some pretty significant work. The gain stage had originally been designed as a minimal-parts design. With the addition of a handful of parts, though, I could turn it into a constant-feedback design that promised to sound significantly better than the original.
 
Aside: so what’s all this constant-feedback blather? It’s constant feedback across the audio band. Now, Cordell disproved the old Otala TIM hypothesis, but in my work, I’ve always noted sonic benefits to having an open-loop stage with bandwidth larger than the audio range. So, I extended the open-loop bandwidth to greater than 20kHz with some parts additions and other tweaks, changed the operating point of the front end (it now runs quite a bit more current, and has smaller resistor values for even lower noise), and, of course, put in the gain switch.
 
Aside to the aside: yes, this is heavy geek-speak. If you know Cordell and Otala and concepts like thermal noise, this makes sense. Though you might not believe what I’m saying about the subjective side of things. That’s cool.
 
Aside to the aside to the aside: bottom line, Magni 2 sounds better. And it’s not subtle.
 
How much better? The Magni 2 was originally called the Magni Uber.
 
But, while I was doing this cost-constrained version, I wondered, “What would we get if we threw some more money at this?” So, I built another super-over-the-top Magni Uber Squared, which had a whole host of improvements, starting with preamp outputs, better, adjustable voltage regulators and higher rails, a complementary-input VAS to cancel even more noise and distortion from the front end (and yeah, I know Self sez you don’t need no complementary VAS, that’s cool, maybe we hear differently), much bigger power supply capacitors and a giant new wall-wart, and a couple of other little tweaks. This super-over-the-top version I figured we might never build, but I had to know how it performed.
 
How’d it do? So well that we decided to build both of them. One of our listeners said, “Just stop building everything else and do these,” when hearing the Magni Uber Squared prototype for the first time.
 
Aside: don’t worry, we’re not going to do that. He’s insanely cheap, and that explains a lot of his comment. It is really good, though.
 
So, with that decision, we knew that we’d have two new amps. There was some production budget left over, so I drew up a small solid-aluminum knob and added an aluminum top to the Uber to make it look a bit fancier.

 
At this point It seems some are passing judgement on the updated versions of the M/M and thier Uber counterparts, saying that there is not much changed between original Modi and Modi2 and the Original Magni and Magni2. But its not just a new number on the same old board, there are changes that even with out even throwing the Ubers into the mix means there is a high probability of a very noticeable Improvement over the Originals. And with all the improvements and extra parts to the the base M/M 2's  they did not even jack the price up !!! . Now when you get into the Uber versions there is even more actual improvements on top of the Version 2 M/M to which I no reason why the performance Gap between the Asgard and Bifrost cant get a little smaller.
 
Again from the Man. yes I bolded, made it red and underlined. The Magni 2 was supposed to be the Uber Version which means repacking the same old with a new number is a no go. I am sure the schiit team knows that would cause a revolt with alot of schiit hitting the fan.
 
Magni 2 sounds better. And it’s not subtle.
 
How much better? The Magni 2 was originally called the Magni Uber.
 

 
Dec 31, 2014 at 10:36 AM Post #899 of 1,909
Very nice read and thank you for taking the time to post that. :) now I'm indecisive on getting the Magni 2 Uber or the Asgard 2 and am curious to know if there is a $100 difference between the two sound wise.  Back to the drawing board lol
 
Dec 31, 2014 at 11:29 AM Post #900 of 1,909

Mr.StanD,
 
I'm not interested in the Modi, I'm interested in the Internet Business Model vs the Traditional Bricks & Mortar that my Transportation Industry is based on.   I saw this new range of items being released and followed along.  My initial thought was that Schiit should've left the original design in place at the $100 point , the new 2 version at the $125 point and the Uber at the $150 price point.  This triple "trim" levels is standard for Cars, especially if the original is quite popular. Not dumping the original but rather letting the market choose not to purchase the original would've been the "consumer" friendly way and provided Schiit a net price increase, = greater profit + happier Customers, win-win.  
 
Original Question :  the clock device stability results in musical harmonic clarity.   Sort of like having a 50X telescope mounted to a heavy tripod vs hand holding.   This clarity shows up in Piano notes being played with the echo pedal being depressed or so it sounds , the accurate clocking will make the harmonics clear instead of kinda wide sounding. Another example is the Violin strings yielding an amazing Clear sound that the Strads and others actually make , a wobbly clock will tend to smear those sounds a bit.  One more thing is the fatigue from listening is relaxed with the better clocks, a person's mind works to rebuild a clear image, listening fatigue sets in, trying to focus on out of focus or distorted music wears a person out.   
 
I suspect the DAC in Modi is quite good and could probably benefit from a better clock.  Probably all the debate about DAC chips is missing the critical information about the clock .   
 
The Oven Clock is pricy, it must be the reason the Modi doesn't have one.  Or perhaps the designers don't quite understand the importance.  In summary I'd have to say the Consumer DACs are sort-of Walkman level devices, if an Audiophile wanted a Pro DAC he could easily buy one.  
 
Tony in Michigan
 
ps. better information on Clocks can be found in the internet literature by MSB technologies and Antelope 
 

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