[StanD]

 
Mr.StanD,
 
I'm not interested in the Modi, I'm interested in the Internet Business Model vs the Traditional Bricks & Mortar that my Transportation Industry is based on.   I saw this new range of items being released and followed along.  My initial thought was that Schiit should've left the original design in place at the $100 point , the new 2 version at the $125 point and the Uber at the $150 price point.  This triple "trim" levels is standard for Cars, especially if the original is quite popular. Not dumping the original but rather letting the market choose not to purchase the original would've been the "consumer" friendly way and provided Schiit a net price increase, = greater profit + happier Customers, win-win.  
 
Original Question :  the clock device stability results in musical harmonic clarity.   Sort of like having a 50X telescope mounted to a heavy tripod vs hand holding.   This clarity shows up in Piano notes being played with the echo pedal being depressed or so it sounds , the accurate clocking will make the harmonics clear instead of kinda wide sounding. Another example is the Violin strings yielding an amazing Clear sound that the Strads and others actually make , a wobbly clock will tend to smear those sounds a bit.  One more thing is the fatigue from listening is relaxed with the better clocks, a person's mind works to rebuild a clear image, listening fatigue sets in, trying to focus on out of focus or distorted music wears a person out.   
 
I suspect the DAC in Modi is quite good and could probably benefit from a better clock.  Probably all the debate about DAC chips is missing the critical information about the clock .   
 
The Oven Clock is pricy, it must be the reason the Modi doesn't have one.  Or perhaps the designers don't quite understand the importance.  In summary I'd have to say the Consumer DACs are sort-of Walkman level devices, if an Audiophile wanted a Pro DAC he could easily buy one.  
 
Tony in Michigan
 
ps. better information on Clocks can be found in the internet literature by MSB technologies and Antelope 

You still haven't answered the question in practical terms. How much deviation in PPM would affect the sound and how? If that question cannot be answered, the point has little practical value.
Even justifying the use of a temperature controlled clock requires specifics. How many degrees Celcius of drift will the encountered in the user's environment and how will this affect music? If one cannot justify such an expense in practical terms, one shouldn't ask Schiit or their customers for something that will escalate the price beyond what makes sense.
To add a little humor, if they can put in a jack for an external clock, we can always move to Fort Collins, CO and jack into the NBS atomic clock. I wonder how much the cable and required hardware would cost. 

 

 

[TheTodd]

I see that the Magni 2 has more power at lower impedance than the Asgard 2 does.

 

[disastermouse]

How does the Modi 2 Uber compare to the HRT Music Streamer II+?

 

[XERO1]

  I've heard that the sound difference between the 1 and 2 is fairly significant.  Less strident, a little more relaxed and smooth.
 
I haven't hard the two myself, though, so I'm only passing this on 2nd hand.  From someone I consider to be a very reliable source, however...

 
 

  I've just heard from others say that they're both flat and sound is very similar.  I don't know if these are reliable sources or not for I haven't sampled the both of them either.   Thank you for your quick response

 
 

  I imagine a lot of it depends on how well trained your ears are and what sources you have connected to the Magni 1/2.  
 
Small differences to some are giant chasms to others...
 

 
I own both the Magni and the Magni 2 Uber and I've done a few level-matched comparisons between them using both a HD 650 and a ATH-M50S.
 
While the M2U is definitely better in many areas, smoother and more refined sounding with a slightly larger soundstage, IMHO, it is not a "night and day" improvement over the original Magni.
 
Actually, the original Magni is a somewhat more "incisive" sounding amp and might actually complement some of the more laid-back sounding headphones better than the M2U, but it does start to get grungy sounding as the music begins to get louder and more complex, whereas the M2U keeps its composure and never breaks a sweat even at the highest listening levels with the HD 650's.
 
But at low-to-medium listening levels, the two are much more alike than different.
 
Love them both. 

 

 

[money4me247]

@tonykaz
 
i think schiit was smart to limit the models. too many models will lead to customer confusion and indecision, which leads to lost sales. example is the ice cream study. they found that people were more likely to purchase ice cream when there aren't too many choices.

 

[XERO1]

 

Otherwise, this is what happens! 

 
 

 

[AUserName501]

Spoiler: Quote: XERO1

Originally Posted by XERO1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 
 
 
 
 
I own both the Magni and the Magni 2 Uber and I've done a few level-matched comparisons between them using both a HD 650 and a ATH-M50S.
 
While the M2U is definitely better in many areas, smoother and more refined sounding with a slightly larger soundstage, IMHO, it is not a "night and day" improvement over the original Magni.
 
Actually, the original Magni is a somewhat more "incisive" sounding amp and might actually complement some of the more laid-back sounding headphones better than the M2U, but it does start to get grungy sounding as the music begins to get louder and more complex, whereas the M2U keeps its composure and never breaks a sweat even at the highest listening levels with the HD 650's
 
But at low-to-medium listening levels, the two are much more alike than different.
 
Love them both. 

 
How did you volume match? If you volume matched by ear then you've already failed to volume match. Very small differences in volume will affect perception of sound. If the test was sighted then it's useless. Unsurprisingly, the more expensive option fares better under sighted conditions but I doubt it would under blinded conditions.

 

[tonykaz]

Mr.Money,
 
Fair enough.  
 
My take is that Schiit is still too small and new to have this level of complexity. 
 
I don't mind one way or the other, I'm just sitting here watching from a Auto/Transportation Industry point of view: we would've built-in a triplicates of choice & price!   The marketplace loves three choices, the cheap one with roll up windows and no AC will sell quite well in the poor markets and provide Price Leader positioning. 
 
Schiit is doing fine, they may be the Leader in their industry, small as it is.  
 
Tony in Michigan

 

[XERO1]

   
How did you volume match? If you volume matched by ear then you've already failed to volume match. Very small differences in volume will affect perception of sound. If the test was sighted then it's useless. Unsurprisingly, the more expensive option fares better under sighted conditions but I doubt it would under blinded conditions.

 
I agree.
 
I used a Rat Shack SPL meter and a 1kH test tone and remeasured multiple times to ensure the output levels were matched to less than +/- 1dB.
 
I then used my PC's volume control to raise or lower the global level of both amps simultaneously.

 

[AUserName501]

Spoiler: Quote: XERO1

Originally Posted by XERO1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 
I agree.
 
I used a Rat Shack SPL meter and a 1kH test tone and remeasured multiple times to ensure the output levels were matched to less than +/- 1dB.
 
I then used my PC's volume control to raise or lower the global level of both amps simultaneously.

 

 
Still sighted though. I wouldn't call it grungy. It's more emo.

 

[XERO1]

 

Spoiler: Quote: XERO1

 

 
Still sighted though. I wouldn't call it grungy. It's more emo.

 
I not obsessive enough to bother with getting someone to help me to preform a blind listening test.  Sorry.

 

[Sniperboy]

   
How did you volume match? If you volume matched by ear then you've already failed to volume match. Very small differences in volume will affect perception of sound. If the test was sighted then it's useless. Unsurprisingly, the more expensive option fares better under sighted conditions but I doubt it would under blinded conditions.

 
Those are valid points, though a little positive reinforcement wouldn't hurt.  Or else, other people would be bothered to post their opinions for fear of being chastised at every turn.
 
XERO1, I am sure what Dreyka means is "could you try a blind study", and he will shortly suggest some reliably implementable volume matching techniques : ).
 

   
I not obsessive enough to bother with getting someone to help me to preform a blind listening test.  Sorry.

 
Whoops.. posted too late.. case in point.
XERO1, thank you for taking the time to post your initial assessment.

 

[tonykaz]

Mr.StanD,
 
I think you have a valid point.   How much PPM deviation is something that is not accurately described without getting inside the Designers Laboratory and cornering their research teams on the matter.   
 
MSB are quoting these things in their descriptions of their Clock research and their three Clock models.  If you are engineer enough to understand these things you can contact them and they will respond.  I think they are discussing the actual number in their descriptions, usually I see it as pico seconds and "under Picoseconds" type of accuracy levels.   
 
WWV in Ft.Collins is the big Hewlet Packard Atomic Clock that provides the World Standard for Time, I don't know if it is as stable or accurate as the Clocks that MSB or Antelope use, however you can access the WWV standard for calibration use via a 10 Mhz. Shortwave Receiver.  I think WWV broadcasts on all multiples of 5 Mhz in standard Amplitude Modulation ( AM ) with the Carrier being the actual accurate signal.  They also broadcast standard calibrated Audio Tones which are useful for instrumentation calibrations, hence the term: "traceable" being used in the instrumentation world.   
 
I am not a Clock specialist, I only am aware.   I do know that the MSB people are way advanced in the World of Accurate Cocking , these lads are leading authorities who sell their expertise and contract design for anyone with the need. 
 
Tony in Michigan 

 

[TWerk]

What the heck is a pico second?

 

[TWerk]

Oh sorry, a google search describes it as one trillionth of a second... also
 
"A picosecond is to one second as one second is to 31,700 years."
 
Wow.