[pietcux]

I've odered the FiiO X5, with reservations:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/661411/fiio-x5-thread-info-updated-on-jan-17th-2014/9540#post_10566042

I went a different route, got the Sony NWZ-F886. This one has a perfect UI. That is very important for me. But I am looking forward to your findings on the Fiio.

 

[zilch0md]

I went a different route, got the Sony NWZ-F886. This one has a perfect UI. That is very important for me. But I am looking forward to your findings on the Fiio.

 
So tempting, as I love Sony products, but the lack of a true Line Out, much less coaxial out, plus the 32GB storage limit just kills it for me.
 
I'm not looking for a DAP - I'm looking for a DAP with no DAC and no amp.  For about the same price, the X5 gives me SD storage and my choice of line out or coaxial out.  But the X5's UI will probably drive me nuts.
 
Have you tried double-amping the F886?

 

[jazzman7]

 
I'm not looking for a DAP - I'm looking for a DAP with no DAC and no amp.  For about the same price, the X5 gives me SD storage and my choice of line out or coaxial out.  But the X5's UI will probably drive me nuts.

You, sir, are looking for a digital transport.  People understood what this was in the CD and DVD days -- just get me the bits and I'll reconstruct them elsewhere.  I wish someone would do this and make it all display and all UI -- pocketable, with replaceable solid-state memory and a USB host mode interface.  If it has any radios, make it WiFi only, or perhaps WiFi and Bluetooth -- but no cellular. 
 
I see you are getting the X5 -- I really really want to try this one out and go head-to-head with an iPod Video 5G with FiiO E12DIY amp.  Everyone says the X5 sounds better than an amped iPod, but I will be convinced only when I hear it.  Also, I need a real 256GB player to move forward as my two iPod(s) already have 128GB solid state in them. 

 

[pietcux]

   
So tempting, as I love Sony products, but the lack of a true Line Out, much less coaxial out, plus the 32GB storage limit just kills it for me.
 
I'm not looking for a DAP - I'm looking for a DAP with no DAC and no amp.  For about the same price, the X5 gives me SD storage and my choice of line out or coaxial out.  But the X5's UI will probably drive me nuts.
 
Have you tried double-amping the F886?

I am amping with the Stepdance and E12 DIY I have. The F886 and the E12 make a nice stack and the sound result is very good, but the result with the Stepdance is even better. The bass is a dream through the Stepdance, so good controlled and hard hitting.
Listening to Eminem Curtain Call right now:
F886 Clear Baas @ 5, DSEE HX active so is Clear Phase and Clear Stereo Codec: Flac >  Meier >Stepdance @ 15 volt > JVC SZ2000 Headphone....... A Basshead dream. But also very good stage and instrument placements combined or caused by high grade micro detail.

 

[pietcux]

I see you are getting the X5 -- I really really want to try this one out and go head-to-head with an iPod Video 5G with FiiO E12DIY amp.  Everyone says the X5 sounds better than an amped iPod, but I will be convinced only when I hear it.  Also, I need a real 256GB player to move forward as my two iPod(s) already have 128GB solid state in them. 

At least the F886 will not kill your Ipods, the sound difference is to be expected as the Ipods internals are quite old already, but it is not night and day. First of all it is different, not totally better. The amp and the files you use have much more influence.

 

[zilch0md]

  You, sir, are looking for a digital transport.  People understood what this was in the CD and DVD days -- just get me the bits and I'll reconstruct them elsewhere.  I wish someone would do this and make it all display and all UI -- pocketable, with replaceable solid-state memory and a USB host mode interface.  If it has any radios, make it WiFi only, or perhaps WiFi and Bluetooth -- but no cellular. 
 
I see you are getting the X5 -- I really really want to try this one out and go head-to-head with an iPod Video 5G with FiiO E12DIY amp.  Everyone says the X5 sounds better than an amped iPod, but I will be convinced only when I hear it.  Also, I need a real 256GB player to move forward as my two iPod(s) already have 128GB solid state in them. 

 
Yes, exactly - that's all I really want - an SD card reader with a UI no fancier  (nor less fancy) than that of a Sansa Clip, with S/PDIF Coaxial Out.  The End.  But it doesn't exist.  Wahhh!  
 
(Except for the Aune X5 and Aune X6, which I've read have junk UI's - surprise!)

 

[zilch0md]

 
I am amping with the Stepdance and E12 DIY I have. The F886 and the E12 make a nice stack and the sound result is very good, but the result with the Stepdance is even better. The bass is a dream through the Stepdance, so good controlled and hard hitting.
Listening to Eminem Curtain Call right now:
F886 Clear Baas @ 5, DSEE HX active so is Clear Phase and Clear Stereo Codec: Flac >  Meier >Stepdance @ 15 volt > JVC SZ2000 Headphone....... A Basshead dream. But also very good stage and instrument placements combined or caused by high grade micro detail.

 
You're killing me!    
 
You're probably aware that I have a Stepdance with 15V XP8000 battery pack.  It kind of makes sense that the F886 could be double-amped - given how it's S-Master technology is supposed to be so clean and transparent.  I would love to hear it, but again, the 32GB capacity stops me cold. (And I'm not willing to pay for the 128GB ZX1, either.)
 
Maybe after I get fed up with the X5 and return it...
 

 

[AmberOzL]

Cowon P1 maybe? Not yet in the market but we have a thread in head-fi. It has digital out (optical though not coax) but it doesn't have line out.
 
Capacity 128 gb onboard + micro sd slot.
 
With usual Cowon things like Jet Audio, BBE and all too.

 

[pietcux]

You're killing me!    

You're probably aware that I have a Stepdance with 15V XP8000 battery pack.  It kind of makes sense that the F886 could be double-amped - given how it's S-Master technology is supposed to be so clean and transparent.  I would love to hear it, but again, the 32GB capacity stops me cold. (And I'm not willing to pay for the 128GB ZX1, either.)

Maybe after I get fed up with the X5 and return it...

 

[zilch0md]

The FiiO X5 is a keeper!  (I'm so surprised!)
 
See my just-posted impressions, following less than three days of use:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/661411/fiio-x5-thread-info-updated-on-jan-17th-2014/9780#post_10579922
 
Mike
 
UPDATE - Pictures:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/661411/fiio-x5-thread-info-updated-on-jan-17th-2014/9810#post_10580568

 

[bana]

Having just become aware of the Audiophile DAP market myself, I'm just wondering:
 
1. How big anyone thinks the market is numbers wise.
 
2. Is Apple aware of this specilized market.

 

[Makiah S]

  Having just become aware of the Audiophile DAP market myself, I'm just wondering:
 
1. How big anyone thinks the market is numbers wise.
 
2. Is Apple aware of this specilized market.

Apple is aware and they don't care. Their customers do no have any interest in Specialized DAPS, Apple fans want all in one devices, more than any other product on the market Apples are often the most user friendly and simple to use, do they sound the best... NOPE but they are... easy and hassle free IF you accept their terms conditions, for the average consumer it's just easier to sitck with Apple than learn to use something that's audibly better and price more competively, there is no price to high for ease of mind, and for those who are to busy to fuss with something other than apple, they will countinue to pay the price... however I just saw that Apple Purchased Beats and it's Streaming services... so we may see Apple Launch something like a DAP through the Beats Line... like a reBoot of the iPod into something more fashionable 

 

[Brooko]

  Apple is aware and they don't care. Their customers do no have any interest in Specialized DAPS, Apple fans want all in one devices, more than any other product on the market Apples are often the most user friendly and simple to use, do they sound the best... NOPE but they are... easy and hassle free IF you accept their terms conditions, for the average consumer it's just easier to sitck with Apple than learn to use something that's audibly better and price more competively, there is no price to high for ease of mind, and for those who are to busy to fuss with something other than apple, they will countinue to pay the price... however I just saw that Apple Purchased Beats and it's Streaming services... so we may see Apple Launch something like a DAP through the Beats Line... like a reBoot of the iPod into something more fashionable 

 
Beg to differ.  It seems from recent insider rumour that Apple are considering high-res downloads, which would mean an upgrade to their current devices to accommodate it.  I personally think this would be a step in the right direction.  So it seems they do care.
 
I'd also disagree with your comment that their devices are audibly inferior.  That's not what I hear (or is measured) on the recent iPhones or iPod touches.  Properly conducted listening tests would be interesting I think.  But this will come down to a difference of opinion - that neither of us can objectively prove unless we could organise an independent, peer reviewed test.  Can't see that happening at this stage.  If Apple came out with an iPhone 6 capable of playing up to 24/96 (I'm OK with aac256 - but others will want higher), with 128-256 Gb onboard memory, and the ability to buy decent lossless masters via iTunes, I seriously doubt that I (or a lot of others) would look further to boutique DAPs.  Even if the onboard amp was a little weak - if you could get a clean line-out to an add on amp, I'd just add an Arrow (for full sized cans) and call it a day 

.
 
I know we'll disagree on this Mak - but I do genuinely see Apple looking seriously at the demand for higher quality (and lossless) music.

 

[Makiah S]

   
Beg to differ.  It seems from recent insider rumour that Apple are considering high-res downloads, which would mean an upgrade to their current devices to accommodate it.  I personally think this would be a step in the right direction.  So it seems they do care.
 
I'd also disagree with your comment that their devices are audibly inferior.  That's not what I hear (or is measured) on the recent iPhones or iPod touches.  Properly conducted listening tests would be interesting I think.  But this will come down to a difference of opinion - that neither of us can objectively prove unless we could organise an independent, peer reviewed test.  Can't see that happening at this stage.  If Apple came out with an iPhone 6 capable of playing up to 24/96 (I'm OK with aac256 - but others will want higher), with 128-256 Gb onboard memory, and the ability to buy decent lossless masters via iTunes, I seriously doubt that I (or a lot of others) would look further to boutique DAPs.  Even if the onboard amp was a little weak - if you could get a clean line-out to an add on amp, I'd just add an Arrow (for full sized cans) and call it a day 

.
 
I know we'll disagree on this Mak - but I do genuinely see Apple looking seriously at the demand for higher quality (and lossless) music.

Oh I agree that they are looking at the demand of High Res, I just don't think they'll push it through their pre existing product line, I'm not saying the apple devices sound bad, but they are focused more on portable use than end of the line sound quality, for example I carry full size cans around with an external amplifier, I doubt Apple is marketing to people like me, rather I think they will focus highly on the users who want a simpler product, all in ones. I would think they would use the pre existing "beats" marketing to push that line, then there are the other customers who aren't as interested in hi fideility, people who are content with the Apple Ear Buds, 
 
my point being is when we look at companies like iBasso and Hifiman, they are leaning more towards [well in the past] fideility over portability, they may countinue down that path, and if they do they will hold a large share of the market of users who want those end game hi fidelity players, where as I think Apple has placed them selvs in a good spot to have some control over those who seek better All in One Solutions, and most consumers fall into the all in one category.
 
Point being I don't think Apple is aiming at Summit Fi, the crazy nuts here who carry around the Hugo Dac to play their DSD, [heck I'm almost half way to Summit Fi my self] I do how ever thing Apple is going to hold a huge share of the "Mid Fi" market, and within that market there is a big want for the capacity to play High Res, Brooko follow me on the thread dedicated to Apples purchase of beats, Apple imo won't ever make an "audiophile dap" in the sense that it will be purely for music play back, when I think of audiophile DAPS they ONLY thing they do is sound good, the HM801 is a perfect example, the ui sucks, the battery life is a joke but it sounds great! The sound quality is TOP priority, that to me makes it a audiophile dap, before anything ELSE it sounds good
 
Apple, won't ever place audio as priority number one, their customers don't want that. But I do think they will start to place a greater importance on the sound quality, as the majority of users desire better sounding gear, Apple will provide it. But they most likely won't ever make anything on the level of the HM901 or the AK 240, they have no need to, in stead they'll combine the performance of something like teh Fiio X5 with the useability of the iPhone, 
 
but I think the Botique players will still have a place, I'm not a fan of paying for all the "extras" that an iPad or iPhone can do, I want a device 100% dedicated to sound quality, and I've not heard the new Apple Products, how ever I state that they are inferior in that an iPhone 5 is about $649 [that's no contract, unlocked and with 16gb onBoard] for $649 your can get a new Hifiman HM802 that will most likely sound better, As an all in one device, the Apple Products are very good, and will continue to get better, how ever as a dedicated DAP they are a bad buy and I don't think that will change
 
but again, there's is now a big push for High Res capability within "all in one" devices, and that market Apple will most like dominate, the newer efficent Hifiman Headphones, and the new AKG k812 are evidance of this, even the new Audeze headphones are more efficent, but the market for a dedicated DAP is not something apple cares to venture into, the market for TOTL end of the line BEST sound is not something Apple cares to venture into, instead they focus on the much larger market of people who want their Phone to also serve as a good music host, and I think that's a smart move on their part :3
 
BUT as for me, I don't like my cell phone also hosting my music, the battery already dies in like 2 hours and I do a lot of buisness on my phone, I'd hate to be listening to music and hear the pings from texts and new emails, hence forth I keep my phone and DAP seperate, but for the people who want it all in ONE device, I think Apples in a good position to dominate that market 

 

[Brooko]

 
You went from talking about Apple not being interested in the audiophile market to Apple not being interested in summit-fi (a bit of a change of tack).  I agree with the summit-fi assumption. But just remember that there are a lot of serious music lovers out there who may well class themselves as audiophiles that aren't interested in summit-fi either.
 
Personally I'll never look at an AK240 or HM8/9xx series simply because of the price.  And you know how much I love my music 

.  I'd love to only carry one device.  Like I said - increase the storage and make high-res playback possible, and I'd think that they'll get considerably more sales.
 
I mean - go back a few years - the Classic 5.5 was considered an audiophile device/choice ........