The Reference 6SN7 Thread

Sep 8, 2014 at 8:08 AM Post #286 of 10,668
 
How do you find the Psv vs the Sophia 6SN7 ?

 
I don't want to say too much on that until I have completed burn in with both sets and given them both a thorough testing in my WA5 with a range of rectifier and power tubes. I am weeks away from that point, given the long burn in times with many tubes. A lot of fun playing with these things, but it takes a long time to rack up 300 hours on a tube amp, even when using a WA6 to help with the burn in.
 
I will say that I have been impressed with both so far, the T2s in particular. After 100 hours these tubes really start to deliver. How far they can go I don't know yet.
 
I am most excited about having some Psvane 1:1 WE replicas on the way (300B and 274B). These are the top line Psvane rectifier and power tubes and I am expecting great things from them. There is almost nothing out there that I can find for review material on these tubes - so it is a bit of a gamble.
 
Sep 17, 2014 at 12:18 PM Post #287 of 10,668
   
When I was trying different 6SN7s as power tubes in my Little Dot MKIV SE (with adapters!), I found the T-IIs just as you describe...wonderful clarity; good soundstage; depth and good detail in the bass...AND this all gets better with 30+ hours burn-in. I personally preferred them to even some nice VT231s and a pair of 7N7s. They were only surpassed - as power tubes, anyway - when we discovered the 6AS7Gs, but that's another story...
 
ps. Having seen (heard!) what the 6SN7 family can do, I managed to persuade a Polish amp maker to prototype a reasonably priced model using these as drivers, with a pair of 6AS7G/6080s (theirs being the Russian 6N13S) as powers. If anyone is interested in knowing more about this project - and any input re the 6SN7 would be MUCH appreciated - I started a thread recently..."Feliks-Audio...6SN7 + 6AS7G/6080 prototype"....All are welcome!

 
Here's confirming the Feliks-Audio guys are definitely going ahead with the use of 2x 6SN7s as opposed to just 1...after testing, they found low-impedance 'phones benefited from using 2 (there had been queries from members on this subject). And I personally am really glad - my HD650s will surely also say "thank you" and the amp will look SO much better as an added bonus!
 
Hopefully shouldn't be too long now to blast-off!
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Sep 20, 2014 at 9:49 PM Post #288 of 10,668
Hi guys, I have recommended to thread and hope you can help.
 
I have the an ALO Studio Six which uses a 6SN7 2 x 6V6's 2 x 0B2's and a 5AR4
 
I am experimenting with tube rolling the 6SN7 spot, single tube.
 
I have the following 6SN7 varieties and have put my comments on sonics next to the tube description
 
RCA 6SN7 GT 1940's Grey Glass - smooth wide soundstage, rich harmonics
 
RCA 5692 Red Base 1950's - rich with plenty of bloom not as high resolution as the above
 
Tung Sol 6SN7 GT/VT-231 Round Plates - Black Glass - Having trouble, I heard these need plenty of hours but it is not what I expected, given their reputation, a little sibilant and can be a little harsh, bass is not great
 
RCA 6SN7GT - 1940's Grey Glass - smooth wide soundstage, great resolution
 
Ken Rad 6SN7GT/VT-231 JAN-CKR Black Glass - the best of the lot, clean not gritty as I had been told, best bass
 
 
Are my findings in line with your experiences or do I need to try some of these again and allow more burn in time?
 
Beginning to doubt myself....
 

 

 
Sep 21, 2014 at 2:27 AM Post #289 of 10,668
I have the Woo WA22 & Glenn's OTL (plus had WA 6 , Btlhd Crack, DV 336SE). My experience in rolling 6SN7's has been that although generally a particular type will have some general characteristics, the other tubes also influence the sound. For example with a particular Rectifier , Power combination the TS BGRP 6SN7 produces one of the best sound - so dynamic, Great extension on both ends, amazing clarity. But with a different rec / power tube it sounds shrill, tone is bad. Similarly for Ken Rad, it generally has good bass but some times has weak bass depending on the combination.
 
I have no experience with ALO Studio Six, but maybe the same "synergy between tube combinations"  holds true for it & maybe the other tubes that you have do not mate well with the TS BGRP.
 
Sep 21, 2014 at 3:01 AM Post #290 of 10,668
Are the RCA 5692 red base similar sounding to the CBS Hytron 5692 ? They seem to have similar structures. I have the RCA 5692 & was wondering if it was worth getting the CBS Hytron ? Can anyone who has heard both please comment ?
 
Sep 21, 2014 at 9:03 AM Post #291 of 10,668
Punit I have always liked the CBS/Hytron 5692 better than the RCA. It's very worth getting.

I squirrel, you must have a bad or near end of life TS VT-231. Your other tube comments sound pretty consistent with what most people hear, but not with the TS, especially the sibilant and harsh part. I've never found this, myself. It DOES have less bass weight than the RCA or KenRad tubes, though.
 
Sep 21, 2014 at 4:13 PM Post #292 of 10,668
Punit I have always liked the CBS/Hytron 5692 better than the RCA. It's very worth getting.

I squirrel, you must have a bad or near end of life TS VT-231. Your other tube comments sound pretty consistent with what most people hear, but not with the TS, especially the sibilant and harsh part. I've never found this, myself. It DOES have less bass weight than the RCA or KenRad tubes, though.


I read over at Tube maze that someone had similar issues with the TS RP, it was recommended that it be put on extended burn in as per the following comment
 
'The TS RP often need some extended usage to “wake up” the cathode and strip off the oxidized layer of barium on the cathode to get down to the strongly emitting layers of cathode emulsion. Before an extended “burn in” or “wake up” period, the roundplate 6SN7s are a little bit sluggish-sounding, and sound a little bit muddled/muddy, and in particular do not have good treble extrension or “air” in the high frequencies. But.. oh, WOW, when these legendary roundplate TungSol 6SN7s DO wake up after some burn in time… they will absolutely blow you away.'
 
Accordingly I did so and the sound improved markedly.
 
I then did a marathon 6SN7 tube comparison last night which yielded the following results:
 
Studio Six
 
Test of 6SN7’s Valves - 21/09/14
 
Tube 1 - RCA Red Base 5692 1950’s
 
Valve is quiet, nice colouring, 1st up noticed sounds thicker, maybe more texture
vocals are smooth, texture, maybe more centred image, nice rhythm, feels smoky with everything being intimate.
 
T4 = starts very delicate, music coming from a black background, no noise, no sibilance, snare drum sounds tight, good layering of the instruments, at end of track good cymbals decay
 
T5 = guitar image in far right, vocal is dead centre, aware of a nice drum kick around 2.00 great emotion and no brightness at all! very relaxing to listen to, great sound
 
I feel as though i can hear everything in its right place, nothing is too emphasised.
 
T6 aware the shaker at 1.00 can hear detail in bass guitar, no sibilance or brightness
 
T5 no sibilance or brightness, good rendition of space
 
Overall sound is warm, thick and lush with plenty of unforced detail, maybe not the last word in resolution
 
Tube 2 - RCA 6SN7-GT 1940’s half grey glass
 
T4 tonal balance is brighter, seems very clear, no sibilance, not as much colour, doesn’t sound as thick or textural
 
T5 wide soundstage, impression is its clearer or just lighter, not as much bloom drum kick not as well pronounced
 
T6 sounds thinner I think, shaker is there but not quite as textural, music is not as layered
 
Tube 3 - RCA 6SN7-GT Grey Glass 1940’s 
 
T3 better than valve 2 little more texture, better depth to soundstage not as thin, bass guitar line is easier to follow.
 
T4 warmer, better separation, quiet, snare drums are not pronounced not quite as as thick or full bodied as V1
 
T5 more texture, val is clear with emotion, not as warm, no sibilance, 1.51 little bit shouts , good emotion, orchestra in background not a layered as in V1 but netter than V2
 
Tube 4 - Ken Rad Staggered Plates 6SN7GT/ VT-231 JAN CKR
 
T3 a little grudge not a smooth or liquid as V1 or V3, bit shimmery on cymbals, could be a touch dirty, not smooth or liquid, bit shrill 
 
T4 vocal a little coarse, soundstage is shallow, instruments sound a bit plain and thin, boring 
 
T5 attention wandered, vocals seems to be covered in a sheen, missing rich texture of V1 or V3
 
Tube 5 - Tung Sol Round Plates Black Glass 6SN7GT/VT-231
 
T3 clarity and delicacy, goals are more alive, best so far nice layering, i cancer everything that is going on, heard reverb for the 1st time at end of track
 
T4 nice reverb, vocals are crystal clear, none of the grunge apparent in V4
 
T5 guitar very nice harmonics, not trying to stand out, instruments behind layered well, very clear and clean sound. Great emotion mid track. Best of all worlds here, everything just sounds right!
 
Conclusion: Tube 5 - Tung Sol Round Plates Black Glass is the winner followed by Tube 1 - RCA Red Base
 
Sep 22, 2014 at 7:11 PM Post #293 of 10,668
   
I have been so impressed with the Psvane T2s that I have taken the plunge and ordered some of their 1:1 replica tubes in 300B and 274B. I don't expect these tubes to replicate the legendary vintage WE sound 100%, but I am hoping they will be good sounding tubes that give a taste of that mid range magic. Considering the current pricing of vintage WE NOS, that is about as close as I am ever going to get.
 
I am a little surprised that the new production tubes have had so little attention in reviews and general discussion - there are some gems out there worth checking out.
 

I agree wholeheartedly. In my experience members of this forum completely eschew current production, and as decent NOS sources dry up and prices rise...what then? Offerings from Shuguang and Sophia are a step in the right direction, and they're great tubes, to boot!
 
Sep 22, 2014 at 7:33 PM Post #294 of 10,668
  I agree wholeheartedly. In my experience members of this forum completely eschew current production, and as decent NOS sources dry up and prices rise...what then? Offerings from Shuguang and Sophia are a step in the right direction, and they're great tubes, to boot!

 
To put it bluntly, this fantastic hobby of ours has no future without new production tubes. NOS, by definition, will become increasingly scarce and expensive as the limited stocks are exhausted.
 
I plugged in my Psvane replica WE300Bs into the WA5 last night. Keep in mind these comments are after about 4 hours of use - so the break in has barely started. Right out of the box I noticed these tubes are delivering something that the SERPs didn't after 200 hours - some mid-range magic. I have never heard a vintage WE300B or the recent production WE300B - so I have no way to compare - but something is definitely happening with the replica WE300Bs.
 
Detail and extension aren't happening yet - the SERPs kill in those areas - but, as I was hoping, the mid range magic is present in some degree right out of the box.
 
I'll give a more in depth comparison once I have 300 hours on the SERPs and the replica 300Bs (i.e. in about 2 months).
 
Oct 4, 2014 at 6:06 PM Post #295 of 10,668
Just posted an add for my various 6SN7's
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/737133/various-6sn7-valves
 
Oct 16, 2014 at 8:16 PM Post #296 of 10,668

 
inexpensive 6N8S.... good extention on the top..spacious sounding...on my DV336se
 
Nov 8, 2014 at 8:58 AM Post #297 of 10,668

hard to photo in situ but I have put a pair of these Raytheon JAN-CRP-6SN7GT VT231 in my power amp in place of electrons from China. With no burn in they have better midrange. I assume these are the T plates not flat plates?
 
Nov 10, 2014 at 2:31 PM Post #298 of 10,668
I am really liking my NOS Sylvania 6BX7 GT as a substitute for my 6SN7's.  I prefer them to my usual 6SN7 Sylvania Bad Boys.
 
Nov 10, 2014 at 7:18 PM Post #299 of 10,668

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