The Reference 6SN7 Thread

[JTbbb]

A loaner solid plate Melz made it back safe and sound after going to four people I trust, well three and @bcowen. One never knows what skullduggery he might be up to.

Once @sam6550a is ready, let the discussion begin!

Also I have another version on the way that does not have shiny black plates or the ribs shown on this tube. It may well be from the 80's and have a mid-forward sound, unlike the balanced sound of these beauties. The plates resemble Fotons from 58 on but I will not receive that tube till January. The joys of ordering directly from Russia.

Would you guys be interested in trusting an English man in this loaner program of Meltz tubes? I would sure like to join in with the appraisal of these tubes, with the aim of owning a pair to add to my little collection one day. I suppose the obstacle could be postage/customs. But surely 2 little second hand tubes couldn’t cause too much trouble in that department?

 

[Paladin79]

Would you guys be interested in trusting an English man in this loaner program of Meltz tubes? I would sure like to join in with the appraisal of these tubes, with the aim of owning a pair to add to my little collection one day. I suppose the obstacle could be postage/customs. But surely 2 little second hand tubes couldn’t cause too much trouble in that department?

There is no loaner program per se, I wanted to get reactions from those listening to the same amp I designed, the Incubus Elegan. All of those folks already owned a 63 Melz 1578 for comparison. The 58 solid plate is so rare I only put it in the hands of gentlemen I knew very well and I doubt I will send that out again other than perhaps to one gentleman in Ohio. I am starting to get low on 63 Melz 1578's and need to keep some of those as backups. If you can find 1963 Melz 1578's on Ebay they run about $120 each. There are plenty there from the 70's and 80's but they have a different sound. I have a grey non-ribbed solid plate Melz on the way but until I receive it, I will not know if it even compares to the black plate 58's.

I do not mistrust anyone but my reason for loaning tubes was very focused.

LoryWiv went to a lot of trouble and expense on my part as did Sam so those were different deals entirely.

 

[bcowen]

There is no loaner program per se, I wanted to get reactions from those listening to the same amp I designed, the Incubus Elegan. All of those folks already owned a 63 Melz 1578 for comparison. The 58 solid plate is so rare I only put it in the hands of gentlemen I knew very well and I doubt I will send that out again other than perhaps to one gentleman in Ohio. I am starting to get low on 63 Melz 1578's and need to keep some of those as backups. If you can find 1963 Melz 1578's on Ebay they run about $120 each. There are plenty there from the 70's and 80's but they have a different sound. I have a grey non-ribbed solid plate Melz on the way but until I receive it, I will not know if it even compares to the black plate 58's.

I do not mistrust anyone but my reason for loaning tubes was very focused.

LoryWiv went to a lot of trouble and expense on my part as did Sam so those were different deals entirely.

And none of us expressed our gratitude to you (at least very publicly) for sending the '58 out for us to listen to. So thanks Tom. You 'da man!

This does not affect my 'pay it backward' plan though, just to be upfront.

 

[Paladin79]

And none of us expressed our gratitude to you (at least very publicly) for sending the '58 out for us to listen to. So thanks Tom. You 'da man!

This does not affect my 'pay it backward' plan though, just to be upfront.

Thanks Bill and if I do not like the solid plate Melz I just ordered I will send it your way. All you need do is send $117 to the Finnegan liability insurance fund I am starting. Truth be told the 58 was safer in your hands with him roaming around. I believe he is getting bored with Foton tubes and wants to experiment with more expensive cat toys.

Opinions on the 58 Melz should start soon.

 

[FLTWS]

Happy Thanksgiving all. Let's celebrate by talking about turkey and tubes. I'll take the lead on tubes. Some of us have recently been provided with a pristine same of the 1958 Melz, no-holed plate, by Paladin for evaluation.
To that end my notes on said tube. (and other ramblings on sound related stuff - in a blabby mood today so far).

 

[Paladin79]

Happy Thanksgiving all. Let's celebrate by talking about turkey and tubes. I'll take the lead on tubes. Some of us have recently been provided with a pristine same of the 1958 Melz, no-holed plate, by Paladin for evaluation.
To that end my notes on said tube. (and other ramblings on sound related stuff - in a blabby mood today so far).

Thanks to @FLTWS for taking the time to offer that evaluation. Others who should be joining in on 58 solid plate discussions are @bcowen, @Ripper2860, @JKDJedi, and @sam6550a. There are many who have the 63 Melz perforated plate and those tubes are very similar.

 

[bcowen]

Happy Thanksgiving all. Let's celebrate by talking about turkey and tubes. I'll take the lead on tubes. Some of us have recently been provided with a pristine same of the 1958 Melz, no-holed plate, by Paladin for evaluation.
To that end my notes on said tube. (and other ramblings on sound related stuff - in a blabby mood today so far).

Nice! Great detail and description (as usual). Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Just a point of interest: I tested the '58 when I first got it, and there's about a 10% GM difference between the triodes. One is about 5% above a NOS GM of 2600, and the other 5% below. Be interesting for @Paladin79 to test that tube now after (presumably) a few hundred hours of play and see what it shows on his B&K tester. That said, unless a tube is running close to (or below) minimum GM in one or both triodes, I've never been able to detect a channel imbalance even with a spread of close to 20% between the sections. So a 10% difference in a very strong tube is not going to be audible, at least in my experience.

 

[bcowen]

Thanks Bill and if I do not like the solid plate Melz I just ordered I will send it your way. All you need do is send $117 to the Finnegan liability insurance fund I am starting. Truth be told the 58 was safer in your hands with him roaming around.

Well....maybe not. The '58 Melz safely escaped my clutches, but this NEC 6520 didn't. Dang Japanese tubes....drop 'em on the floor even one little time and they break. Sheeez.

I'll give it a spin in the Incubus later today and see if it sounds better without the glass.

 

[Paladin79]

Nice! Great detail and description (as usual). Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Just a point of interest: I tested the '58 when I first got it, and there's about a 10% GM difference between the triodes. One is about 5% above a NOS GM of 2600, and the other 5% below. Be interesting for @Paladin79 to test that tube now after (presumably) a few hundred hours of play and see what it shows on his B&K tester. That said, unless a tube is running close to (or below) minimum GM in one or both triodes, I've never been able to detect a channel imbalance even with a spread of close to 20% between the sections. So a 10% difference in a very strong tube is not going to be audible, at least in my experience.

I will get my tube tester out soon, I believe it is part of a Finnegan barricade at the moment.

Recently I mixed the 63 Melz 1578, the 58 solid plate Melz, a black plate Ken-Rad VT231, and a 1942 RCA grey glass in a blind test for eight friends. Test amps were four identical Incubus amps and an Aqua La Voce S3 DAC, HD 800 headphones.

The numbers on this round, with 100 being a perfect score were.

98 for the 58 solid plate Melz
97 for the 63 Melz 1578
94 for the Ken-Rad
93 for the RCA

My personal scores were just one point lower for each of the Melz with the other tubes coming in at 94 each. It is not right to have two tubes so close by the same manufacturer in our final 52 tubes so it will be the 1958 solid plate. It is right up there with the top tubes we have for said test.

The biggest difference in the Melz tubes, for me, was a bit of background noise with no signal for the 63 Melz. The 58 is dead silent in my amp with no signal. Scores aside I believe the 58 has a slight edge in bass accuracy and top end but I am listening with Focal Utopias and not the Sennheisers. I am also listening with a Gungnir DAC. Tung Sol 5998 power tube.

The mids on the Melz tubes of this structure are incredible. On some of the later Melz the mids are a bit overwhelming.

 

[JKDJedi]

Happy Thanksgiving all. Let's celebrate by talking about turkey and tubes. I'll take the lead on tubes. Some of us have recently been provided with a pristine same of the 1958 Melz, no-holed plate, by Paladin for evaluation.
To that end my notes on said tube. (and other ramblings on sound related stuff - in a blabby mood today so far).

Got PDF?

 

[JKDJedi]

Well....maybe not. The '58 Melz safely escaped my clutches, but this NEC 6520 didn't. Dang Japanese tubes....drop 'em on the floor even one little time and they break. Sheeez.

I'll give it a spin in the Incubus later today and see if it sounds better without the glass.

You know those can't be found anywhere right now right... sigh

 

[bcowen]

You know those can't be found anywhere right now right... sigh

Yeah, I know. First the un-resuscitatable Bendix 6080, now this. I'm having a bad tube week.

 

[Paladin79]

Got PDF?

See how this works for you.

 

[FLTWS]

Thanks Tom, I was just gonna pdf it, I think I know how, LOL.
You saved me the trouble.

 

[Paladin79]

Thanks Tom, I was just gonna pdf it, I think I know how, LOL.

I am sure you do lol. I have three computers and an IPad pro opened right now so it was easy enough.

I am listening to a 56 Melz solid plate right now but in all honesty I cannot tell much difference between that and the 58. Getting that tube by accident is what started me on this quest.