[gimmeheadroom]

I agree - phone and DAP system wide PEQ would be great.

Coming close, while not PEQ, the MSEB is system-wide on HiBy DAPs (though i think it does not touch bit perfect stream).

That's the issue. For any EQ to work system wide, it has to happen in the analog section. I don't know if Android has any control over that part.

 

[Haxion]

I agree - phone and DAP system wide PEQ would be great.

Coming close, while not PEQ, the MSEB is system-wide on HiBy DAPs (though i think it does not touch bit perfect stream).

I don't think it's really a surprise that PEQ is rare in most devices-- it's pretty confusing and unintuitive unless you've played with it for a while, and none of the apps I've used are decently documented at all. I have a PhD, work in a technical field and understand all the principles of signal processing, but it still took me ~15 minutes or so to intuitively get how to set it up when I first installed Neutron player last month. The average person who doesn't have any experience with log scales, quality factors, Fourier transformations, analog electronics... it's probably not going to go great.

But that said I agree its absence in DAPs is bizarre! Any modern smartphone is a perfectly fine USB/bluetooth music player, and there are a huge array of reasonably priced DAC/amps (such a the 5k this thread discusses) to give them great sound with wired headphones. So the market for spending hundreds of dollars+ on a dedicated DAP is pretty damn niche and I imagine the kind of folks who do are vastly more likely to understand and appreciate advanced features like PEQ. Pretty strange nobody has taken the approach of products like the 5k and neutron player and gone all in pages and pages of fine tuning options.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I don't think it's really a surprise that PEQ is rare in most devices-- it's pretty confusing and unintuitive unless you've played with it for a while, and none of the apps I've used are decently documented at all. I have a PhD, work in a technical field and understand all the principles of signal processing, but it still took me ~15 minutes or so to intuitively get how to set it up when I first installed Neutron player last month. The average person who doesn't have any experience with log scales, quality factors, Fourier transformations, analog electronics... it's probably not going to go great.

But that said I agree its absence in DAPs is bizarre! Any modern smartphone is a perfectly fine USB/bluetooth music player, and there are a huge array of reasonably priced DAC/amps (such a the 5k this thread discusses) to give them great sound with wired headphones. So the market for spending hundreds of dollars+ on a dedicated DAP is pretty damn niche and I imagine the kind of folks who do are vastly more likely to understand and appreciate advanced features like PEQ. Pretty strange nobody has taken the approach of products like the 5k and neutron player and gone all in pages and pages of fine tuning options.

Given 99% or more of DAPs run Android, it doesn't have to do with niche. It's all the same pretty much, regardless of phone or DAP.

 

[TK33]

I don't think it's really a surprise that PEQ is rare in most devices-- it's pretty confusing and unintuitive unless you've played with it for a while, and none of the apps I've used are decently documented at all. I have a PhD, work in a technical field and understand all the principles of signal processing, but it still took me ~15 minutes or so to intuitively get how to set it up when I first installed Neutron player last month. The average person who doesn't have any experience with log scales, quality factors, Fourier transformations, analog electronics... it's probably not going to go great.

But that said I agree its absence in DAPs is bizarre! Any modern smartphone is a perfectly fine USB/bluetooth music player, and there are a huge array of reasonably priced DAC/amps (such a the 5k this thread discusses) to give them great sound with wired headphones. So the market for spending hundreds of dollars+ on a dedicated DAP is pretty damn niche and I imagine the kind of folks who do are vastly more likely to understand and appreciate advanced features like PEQ. Pretty strange nobody has taken the approach of products like the 5k and neutron player and gone all in pages and pages of fine tuning options.

I agree. I think most consumers would pick up a Qudelix 5K, take one look at the app, and say it is too complicated. They would probably be better off with something like the IFI GoBlu. For the rest of us who are actually looking for the features that the Qudelix 5K offers, I think it is am amazing device (I am also one of the few that actually prefer the plain black case vs. my old ES100). I have had mine for over a year now and never really knew what PEQ was before getting one. I won't pretend to know half of what you mentioned but, thanks to some internet research, I was able to figure out how to use the 5K and it works great. It really isn't that hard to use if you invest some time, even if you don't understand the science. I think, probably outside of these forums, most people want a preset plug and play sound with nice build quality and an app that looks like it was designed by Apple, Google, etc.

I see the same thing on the RME ADI-2 (which I also really enjoy), where many people are intimidated by the features and complexity of the menus. In reality, if you don't touch any of those features, it is really just plug and play.

I think for more mainstream devices, it probably doesn't make sense as I am sure it will also lead to more headaches (imagine those customer service reps trying to explain PEQ). While I don't own, and have never been in the market for, a DAP (my DAP is my LG V60), I do find it odd that DAP manufacturers haven't figured out a way to implement PEQ in DAPs. With Bluetooth and devices like the Qudelix 5K getting better and better, I can see DAPs going the way of walkmans, discmans, minidisc players, etc. unless they figure out a way to differentiate the product with things like PEQ. With working from home, investing in a true desktop setup, and playing with a bunch of TWS, I rarely use my V60 anymore.

 

[TK33]

Given 99% or more of DAPs run Android, it doesn't have to do with niche. It's all the same pretty much, regardless of phone or DAP.

You're probably right, although I won't even pretend to know anything about why that is. Also, I think many are content to use Neutron or UAPP.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

You're probably right, although I won't even pretend to know anything about why that is. Also, I think many are content to use Neutron or UAPP.

Android is free. Imagine the cost of maintaining your own OS for your own devices.

With Bluetooth and devices like the Qudelix 5K getting better and better, I can see DAPs going the way of walkmans, discmans, minidisc players, etc.

The only time I use mine is on airplanes. I don't want to run my phone battery down and I use a dual SIM phone so I have no slots for memory cards.

But full disclaimer, I also have portable CD players, portable minidisc recorder/players, and some "pro" minidisc decks. So I'm not the target audience

 

[rlw6534]

I agree. I think most consumers would pick up a Qudelix 5K, take one look at the app, and say it is too complicated. They would probably be better off with something like the IFI GoBlu. For the rest of us who are actually looking for the features that the Qudelix 5K offers, I think it is am amazing device (I am also one of the few that actually prefer the plain black case vs. my old ES100). I have had mine for over a year now and never really knew what PEQ was before getting one. I won't pretend to know half of what you mentioned but, thanks to some internet research, I was able to figure out how to use the 5K and it works great. It really isn't that hard to use if you invest some time, even if you don't understand the science. I think, probably outside of these forums, most people want a preset plug and play sound with nice build quality and an app that looks like it was designed by Apple, Google, etc.

I see the same thing on the RME ADI-2 (which I also really enjoy), where many people are intimidated by the features and complexity of the menus. In reality, if you don't touch any of those features, it is really just plug and play.

I think for more mainstream devices, it probably doesn't make sense as I am sure it will also lead to more headaches (imagine those customer service reps trying to explain PEQ). While I don't own, and have never been in the market for, a DAP (my DAP is my LG V60), I do find it odd that DAP manufacturers haven't figured out a way to implement PEQ in DAPs. With Bluetooth and devices like the Qudelix 5K getting better and better, I can see DAPs going the way of walkmans, discmans, minidisc players, etc. unless they figure out a way to differentiate the product with things like PEQ. With working from home, investing in a true desktop setup, and playing with a bunch of TWS, I rarely use my V60 anymore.

Totally agree. DAPs are quite expensive IMO and many of them are no better than a decent smartphone in audio quality. There has to be some justification for the extra expense. I love the hobby, but other than increases in output power, DAPs are pretty hard to justify in real terms.

 

[Hanesu]

Any reason not to look at xDSD Gryphon, if you want:
- step up in SQ from Qudelix
- more powerful
- just slightly bigger
- still supporting BT
- not crazy overpriced as everything from Chord which is more like a famous fashion brand, when they charge for name mostly, not the product itself.

xDuoo XD05 BAL is another similar, even cheaper than Gryphon option.

Agree with everything except of „just slightly bigger“

 

[Haxion]

I agree. I think most consumers would pick up a Qudelix 5K, take one look at the app, and say it is too complicated. They would probably be better off with something like the IFI GoBlu. For the rest of us who are actually looking for the features that the Qudelix 5K offers, I think it is am amazing device (I am also one of the few that actually prefer the plain black case vs. my old ES100). I have had mine for over a year now and never really knew what PEQ was before getting one. I won't pretend to know half of what you mentioned but, thanks to some internet research, I was able to figure out how to use the 5K and it works great. It really isn't that hard to use if you invest some time, even if you don't understand the science. I think, probably outside of these forums, most people want a preset plug and play sound with nice build quality and an app that looks like it was designed by Apple, Google, etc.

I see the same thing on the RME ADI-2 (which I also really enjoy), where many people are intimidated by the features and complexity of the menus. In reality, if you don't touch any of those features, it is really just plug and play.

I think for more mainstream devices, it probably doesn't make sense as I am sure it will also lead to more headaches (imagine those customer service reps trying to explain PEQ). While I don't own, and have never been in the market for, a DAP (my DAP is my LG V60), I do find it odd that DAP manufacturers haven't figured out a way to implement PEQ in DAPs. With Bluetooth and devices like the Qudelix 5K getting better and better, I can see DAPs going the way of walkmans, discmans, minidisc players, etc. unless they figure out a way to differentiate the product with things like PEQ. With working from home, investing in a true desktop setup, and playing with a bunch of TWS, I rarely use my V60 anymore.

Thinking about it a bit more, there’s another reason we’ll probably never see PEQ in mainstream apps and devices: ease of real time tuning. With a standard 10 band EQ you can just put on one or two of your favorite songs and drag the sliders around until you’re happy with the sound. You also immediately know what is supposed to happen if you increase or decrease the level for each step.

But with PEQ since each filter is controlled by three numbers (Q, frequency and dB), you really have to think about the spectrum and plan ahead, and the immediate response to adjusting any of those numbers is harder to interpret. It’s asking way too much of the average user; it’s a truly analytical way to adjust sound. Which at the end of the day makes me doubly grateful that there are _any_ affordable (read: not studio or production equipment) consumer products that include it! I think before the advent of hobby forums like this one or others, those type of tuning options must have been nonexistent.

 

[jsmiller58]

Thinking about it a bit more, there’s another reason we’ll probably never see PEQ in mainstream apps and devices: ease of real time tuning. With a standard 10 band EQ you can just put on one or two of your favorite songs and drag the sliders around until you’re happy with the sound. You also immediately know what is supposed to happen if you increase or decrease the level for each step.

But with PEQ since each filter is controlled by three numbers (Q, frequency and dB), you really have to think about the spectrum and plan ahead, and the immediate response to adjusting any of those numbers is harder to interpret. It’s asking way too much of the average user; it’s a truly analytical way to adjust sound. Which at the end of the day makes me doubly grateful that there are _any_ affordable (read: not studio or production equipment) consumer products that include it! I think before the advent of hobby forums like this one or others, those type of tuning options must have been nonexistent.

I don’t think that the availability of EQ and PEQ needs to be thought of as being mutually exclusive. The 5K offers both features, after all. Ultimately an app having lots of features really doesn’t need to present a daunting user experience - they can have a “normal” option / menu that gives easy access to the most used/critical features, and an “advanced” option / menu that gives access to scads of features for the adventurous. This is a rather common approach already used.

 

[newworld666]

Am I the only one to have an issue with the update to the firmware 1.25 ?
Usually it's going fine (though I don't understand why there are so many updates), this time it's not passing the restart though I tried many times after restarting my smartphone and the Qudelix 5K.

 

[kadinh]

Everyone happy with their 5K? I've had the BRT5 (old version) and UTWS5 (faulty) and wondering if I should go for the 5K over the Go Blu (which my coworker has).

Any thoughts appreciated.

EDIT: I'm also considering using the $130 I have from the return of the UTWS5 (since I can't currently buy it) and put it towards the purchase of the Cayin RU6.

 

[amonmeiz]

Everyone happy with their 5K? I've had the BRT5 (old version) and UTWS5 (faulty) and wondering if I should go for the 5K over the Go Blu (which my coworker has).

Any thoughts appreciated.

EDIT: I'm also considering using the $130 I have from the return of the UTWS5 (since I can't currently buy it) and put it towards the purchase of the Cayin RU6.

I watch/read few reviews on 5k vs GoBlu, and the consensus seems like GoBlu is a better device, no wonder given the higher price.

But, the flexibility and freedom provided by 5k's eq is undeniably impressive, and for some people, essential.

I been using 5k for close to a month now, and i cannot imagine living without it (the peq). I might be getting a better dac/amp (mojo2 seems nice) in the future, but 5k will always be my daily driver, hopefully for a very long time.

 

[TK33]

I watch/read few reviews on 5k vs GoBlu, and the consensus seems like GoBlu is a better device, no wonder given the higher price.

But, the flexibility and freedom provided by 5k's eq is undeniably impressive, and for some people, essential.

I been using 5k for close to a month now, and i cannot imagine living without it (the peq). I might be getting a better dac/amp (mojo2 seems nice) in the future, but 5k will always be my daily driver, hopefully for a very long time.

I think it really depends on what you value and personal preference. Also, as for price, IFI does have a more well-known brand and longer history (with a loyal following) so that should be factored in. Qudelix, on the other hand, is a new company started by the person who is known to many as just the guy who designed the ES100 and left Radsone.

They are also very different devices when it comes to features. If you don't need PEQ, find the app too intimidating or value the volume knob or more "premium" look the most, the IFI GoBlu is probably the one for you. I like the simple physical design of the 5K and don't worry about a case for it or abusing it and it still looks and works perfectly well (I bought mine at launch).

Sound wise, I find the Qudelix 5K to be very neutral and transparent but I have seen others describe it as "bright" (which I disagree with but maybe my opinion or perception of what sounds neutral is just different). I also imagine some people like the XBass or other "X" features of IFI devices, especially if they are used to the IFI sound and don't want to mess with PEQ.

Whether it is comparing Qudelix 5K vs IFI GoBlu or any other device, I would take those reviews with a grain of salt since we are human and have our own priorities, preferences and, yes, biases. What matters is what is important to you and what will allow you to enjoy your music.

@kadinh I am very happy with the Qudelix 5K.

 

[amonmeiz]

I think it really depends on what you value and personal preference. Also, as for price, IFI does have a more well-known brand and longer history (with a loyal following) so that should be factored in. Qudelix, on the other hand, is a new company started by the person who is known to many as just the guy who designed the ES100 and left Radsone.

They are also very different devices when it comes to features. If you don't need PEQ, find the app too intimidating or value the volume knob or more "premium" look the most, the IFI GoBlu is probably the one for you. I like the simple physical design of the 5K and don't worry about a case for it or abusing it and it still looks and works perfectly well (I bought mine at launch).

Sound wise, I find the Qudelix 5K to be very neutral and transparent but I have seen others describe it as "bright" (which I disagree with but maybe my opinion or perception of what sounds neutral is just different). I also imagine some people like the XBass or other "X" features of IFI devices, especially if they are used to the IFI sound and don't want to mess with PEQ.

Whether it is comparing Qudelix 5K vs IFI GoBlu or any other device, I would take those reviews with a grain of salt since we are human and have our own priorities, preferences and, yes, biases. What matters is what is important to you and what will allow you to enjoy your music.

@kadinh I am very happy with the Qudelix 5K.

I agree. Ifi x bass & x space toggle/button are easy, simple and intuitive, especially when compare to more complicated qudelix app. I can see the appeal there.

Imo, i too think 5k sound signature is more neutral than bright. It does make my Ikko Oh10 slightly less bassy, which is not exactly a bad thing.