The Pono Player Impressions Thread
Dec 6, 2014 at 5:08 AM Post #91 of 1,969
I was originally not that impressed with the Pono Player until I bought the balanced cable for the Sony XBA-Z5 and put them on my SE846 to connect to the Pono balanced mode. 
I agreed pretty much on the non balanced mode it sounds a bit thin on the highs and when playing jazz music it exposed its weakness the most.  Its strength is the bass response and percussion where its punchy and powerful and its best and for pop and rock music. 
 
On balanced mode everything changes. A huge difference.  The highs seems to be so clear and everything seems to be more detailed and it sounds just as good as my AK240 on balanced mode (OK not that detail maybe as the bass seems to be a tad exaggerated) but it's not far behind.  I think the quality will change as it burns in and this a a very nice surprise for me.  I would say give it more time and for that kind of money (US415 for me being a backer overseas) I think it's pretty good.  Here is a pic below (it may not work I'll try to attach this picture)
 
Dec 6, 2014 at 5:42 PM Post #92 of 1,969
I've had my Neil Young signature series Pono for a few weeks now, time to share some thoughts about it. I have only used it in single end mode, not balanced yet. 
 
First, the sound quality is really very good. The presentation tilts just a bit to the lean side, with a nice air to the treble, which I personally prefer vs. a warm or muddy tilted signature. I compared directly to my iPod Touch 5g, and the differences are immediately apparent and Pono is an improvement. At least to my ears. (iPod Touch comparisons were using same files on both devices, Fiio A/B switcher and "blind".... I could pick out the Pono player every time). The Pono has an more clean and airy sound, tighter, drier bass and a definite advantage in sounding "dimensional".  In comparison, iPod sounds flatter, rounder bass notes and lacking in sparkle. In my opinion, the 5G Touch is not bad at all, but it's shortcomings are certainly noticable when compared directly to the Pono Player.
 
If I had to choose a weak point of the Pono sound, it may come across a a bit "raw" in it's presentation. For better or worse, you hear the quality of the music you feed it. This comes with the territory of most hi-fi gear though, there's no help smoothing any warts or flaws in the source file. Curious to see how this may work for a device that is meant to convert masses to high quality audio. ...So for a device that is meant to appeal to the masses, and convert them to hi-res files and an audiophile player....It may come as an unpleasant surprise to a new Pono buyer that their old favorite badly mastered and lossy coded albums sound like crap on their new pono and expensive headphones.
 
Other portable sources I've owned are DIY iMods w/Leckerton or Pico amp, clip zip, Centrance Hi-Fi M8, other iPods, iBasso DX50 and DX90 and Fiio X5. I won't compare directly with these because I don't have them anymore. Just from memory though the Centrance M8 was my favorite of all, the Pono is in that same league. DX90 was also fairly good and I can't really say where it stands in comparison of Pono. Although I think the DX90 may be a bit darker than Pono (by memory).
 
Earlier this year, I liquidated all my thousands of dollars of desktop gear to fund another project, so I don't have any direct comparisons with desktop gear. But, I will say that if you expect a $400 portable player to completely replace something like that you are nuts. There's nothing "magic" with the Pono Player. It's a solid peice of portable gear that could probably work very well as part of a good desktop setup (using it as a transport/DAC with line out to a dedicated desktop amp). The Pono Player itself is nothing revolutionary, but stands with the best portable gear I have owned as far as sound quality. 
 
The good:
 
- Sound qualty of the player is very good. Comparing to an iPod the Pono strikes a decisive win. Which makes sense since the basis of the Pono ecosystem is to provide better quality files and hardware to the masses, and raise awareness of better quality audio. 
 
- There is a certain simplicity to the player. No EQ or other abstract sound related settings to fiddle with. Just plug in and listen. Focus on the music. I get it. 
 
- You can drag/drop files right on to your card, bypassing the Pono Music app. Scanning the library is very quick.
 
- Packaging and presentation is very nice.  
 
- I am surprised to find that I actually like the shape/size. Although it seems a bit odd, I actually like that it can sit nicely on it's side feeding line out to a home system, and read/use the screen. It actually works okay in a pocket as well, if you don't wear super tight pants. No one wants to see me wearing tight pants anyway so this works out just fine. 
 
The bad:
 
- Although still beta, the Pono Music World software is terrible. I use JRiver, which it is based on, so I am familiar. Still, it sucks. Anyone not already familiar with JRiver is going to have a bummer of a time. I won't go into every detail but it's just not intuitive. It looks cheap. Music transfer is much slower than just dragging and dropping in windows without the software. After adding music to my cart, it took me  4-5 minutes to even find my cart to checkout. One of many learning curves that are too steep for this to succeed in the mainstream. 
 
The neither good nor bad:
 
-The player UI isn't bad at all. It works. It's a bit clunky but perfectly serviceable. I haven't had any issue with it, no lockups, freezes, etc. But I see some room for improvement with future firmware updates. (the touch screen turns on when adjusting volume, my biggest gripe- keep the damn touch screen off for that!). Scrolling through artist/album is sometimes tedious on the small screen, depending on how many albums an artist has. For example, you scroll through "artist", click on "Neil Young" and 30 albums expand into the list. They stay expanded until you scroll back to the top and click "Neil Young" again, then they collapse.  It would be nice if there was an "auto-collapse" after 30 seconds or so, so next time you scroll through artists, you don't need to scroll through 30 open Neil Young albums. Those two items are my biggest gripes but not a deal breaker. 
 
- Build quality is good, middle of the road I guess. Although I the SD card cover seems like the weakest part, be careful with it.  The silver finish on the LE player is slippery and I don't want to drop it. Maybe the black/yellow players will have a softer "rubbery" finish? The included leather case is very nice, but only for transporting it. No cutouts to operate the player while it's in the case. We need cases for these things.
 
So...will the Pono Player and it's store be successful? I don't know. The hardware is promising but the store and software are frustratingly behind at the moment. Still time for it to catch up though. I'll keep my fingers crossed. Anything this project may achieve when it comes to bringing better audio to the masses (or at least raise the awareness) is good for everybody in our hobby. We will see....
 
Dec 9, 2014 at 8:28 PM Post #95 of 1,969
Thegrobe, I received my pono yesterday - I agree pretty much entirely with your findings.

I'm running it single ended at the moment and I've left it on repeat for burn in. It's early days but for the money I think it offers decent value and performance.

The sound is indeed detailed and airy, pretty good out of head soundstage but rather bass light. I'm expecting it will mellow out with use and I'm going to get one of my fitear cables modified for balanced use.

Until that's done I won't try any direct comparisons with my personal benchmark - the AK240, but I believe it will not be embarrassed when factoring in the price.

I'm also a JRiver user, so the software wasn't that difficult to navigate. I found loading tracks a bit quicker and easier vs file explorer as you can right click and it remembers the last disk (pono or SD) enabling you to stack up a loading list and leave it to get on with it.

I also think the UI is fine, I've left the protective sheet on so I'm not giving it the best chance, but the layout is simple, buttons work fine etc.

As for the shape, I like it. It sits very nicely in my hand and, as you say, it sits on the desk in landscape mode very well. I've not tried it in my pocket yet, but I don't think it'll be any less inconvenient than the '240
 
Dec 10, 2014 at 4:11 AM Post #97 of 1,969
  Updated comments of my early impressions including a test of balanced mode.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/629454/pono-neil-youngs-portable-hi-res-music-player/1680#post_11115013


Zorntel, what an excellent review regarding the balanced mode of the Pono player.  I haven't got a pair of big cans but as stated before am using the pair of balanced cable for Sony XBAZ-5 on my Shure 846 and the difference is HUGE.  It's just I don't have the writing skills such as yours to express the difference between balanced and non balanced effect.  All I can say is the balanced mode of Pono is nearly as good as my AK240 on balanced mode on IEM.
 
Dec 11, 2014 at 10:31 PM Post #98 of 1,969
Ah, RTFM, self - I didn't realise you need twin plugs to run in balanced mode, anyone got a wiring diagram please? I've had a look but can't find one...

I just want to adapt my stock fitEar IEM cable

In the meantime, I've had the player on shuffle for three days now - as anticipated the sound has mellowed significantly. Bass has improved, treble less harsh. It's quite an exciting sound
 
Dec 11, 2014 at 10:42 PM Post #99 of 1,969
...hit reply by mistake... It's quite an 'exciting' sound, full of energy and pace. In comparison, the AK240 (same cable, single ended, custom FitEar MH334) initially sounds a bit dull - but the subtlety and depth quickly becomes apparent.

Nonetheless, the Pono is very good and improves with use. BTW I've tried to avoid acclimatisation and placebo effects by giving it 24 hours between listens, so I'm quite confident about the burn in impact.

Now I'm intrigued to hear the balanced mode...
 
Dec 12, 2014 at 12:46 AM Post #100 of 1,969
Ah, RTFM, self - I didn't realise you need twin plugs to run in balanced mode, anyone got a wiring diagram please? I've had a look but can't find one...

I just want to adapt my stock fitEar IEM cable

In the meantime, I've had the player on shuffle for three days now - as anticipated the sound has mellowed significantly. Bass has improved, treble less harsh. It's quite an exciting sound


Hey stonemanty, you need two, 3 contact 3.5mm jacks (t,r,s). Tip is positive, ring is neg, sleeve contact is not used. Same on left or right. Pretty easy. Left channel plugs into the pono headphone jack, right into the line out jack. When both connected, you can choose "balanced" out from the pono menu.

I just setup a CIEM cable today for running balanced, and damn it's good!
 
Dec 12, 2014 at 10:35 AM Post #102 of 1,969
...hit reply by mistake... It's quite an 'exciting' sound, full of energy and pace. In comparison, the AK240 (same cable, single ended, custom FitEar MH334) initially sounds a bit dull - but the subtlety and depth quickly becomes apparent.

Nonetheless, the Pono is very good and improves with use. BTW I've tried to avoid acclimatisation and placebo effects by giving it 24 hours between listens, so I'm quite confident about the burn in impact.

Now I'm intrigued to hear the balanced mode...


And just for reference, here's the thread on the Pono Forum where the request for the balanced wiring diagram was
made: https://ponomusic.force.com/0D5A000001Rrk2K and here's a direct link to the diagram  Download pdf(53 KB).
You'll need to have an account and log in.  And if I recall correctly, it is the line-out plug that serves as right channel....
 
Also, important:  whenever you want to operate in balanced mode, you need to first go to Settings and select "Balanced Mode".
Otherwise you'll get sound... but weird sound.  :)
 
And whenever you detached your balanced cable, the settings will revert to single ended operation.
 
Dec 12, 2014 at 10:44 AM Post #103 of 1,969
We wrote three Tech Sheets for the PonoPlayer in balanced mode. The first is about how it is implemented on the player and was written by the designer, Charlie Hansen of Ayre. The second is about headphone use in balanced mode and the third is about connecting to power amps and the like using balanced mode. We really recommend people to read them as they do contain warnings about using mono plugs. The tech sheets are in the Knowledge and Q and A sections of the PonoMusic community.
 
Dec 14, 2014 at 12:54 AM Post #105 of 1,969
The Pono music store is working but is clearly Beta. They are still madly populating the catalog and removing duplicates and etc.
So not ready for prime time -- but, no wonder, with the short ramp-up time they've had.  IMO.

So surely this is not the final word, but I did a spot check as below.  

Title                            96/24    192/24    HDTracks        Pono
Gaucho                             x                    $17.98            $17.79

Tigerlilly                            x                    $17.98            $17.99
Mellon Collie etc                x                    $26.98            $26.99

Hiromi Alive                       x                    $17.98            $17.79
Bad Girls                                        x       $24.98            $17.79

Would not be surprised if the 192/24 items gets marked higher, once they have time to breathe.


Mellon Collie is 17.48 € in 96/24 and 9.99€ in 44/16 on quobuz.com but I don't know whether they sell to the us yet. Tigerlily 15.99€ in 96/24, 9.99€ in 44/16. These prices include around 20% value added tax (which we have to pay in Europe on music diwnloads), so if quobuz sold to the us they should be cheaper.
 

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