[flatmap]

  Slightly off topic, but does anyone know when the Pono Music store will open for business? Also, are the FLAC recordings priced the same as HDtracks ... $17.98 for 24/96 and $24.98 for 24/192?

The Pono music store is working but is clearly Beta. They are still madly populating the catalog and removing duplicates and etc.
So not ready for prime time -- but, no wonder, with the short ramp-up time they've had.  IMO.
 
So surely this is not the final word, but I did a spot check as below.  
 
Title                            96/24    192/24    HDTracks        Pono
Gaucho                             x                    $17.98            $17.79
 
Tigerlilly                            x                    $17.98            $17.99
Mellon Collie etc                x                    $26.98            $26.99
 
Hiromi Alive                       x                    $17.98            $17.79
Bad Girls                                        x       $24.98            $17.79
 
Would not be surprised if the 192/24 items gets marked higher, once they have time to breathe.

 

[Skylab]

Well, I was hoping to get a review done on my PonoPlayer, but it seems to have developed a problem...the battery doesn't seem to hold a charge. Works fine for a while, but now I can't even get it to fully power up when plugged in, and when unplugged it's dead as a door nail. Not good...I've contacted support, will wait to see what happens next.

 

[jwbrent]

 
The Pono music store is working but is clearly Beta. They are still madly populating the catalog and removing duplicates and etc.
So not ready for prime time -- but, no wonder, with the short ramp-up time they've had.  IMO.
 
So surely this is not the final word, but I did a spot check as below.  
 
Title                            96/24    192/24    HDTracks        Pono
Gaucho                             x                    $17.98            $17.79
 
Tigerlilly                            x                    $17.98            $17.99
Mellon Collie etc                x                    $26.98            $26.99
 
Hiromi Alive                       x                    $17.98            $17.79
Bad Girls                                        x       $24.98            $17.79
 
Would not be surprised if the 192/24 items gets marked higher, once they have time to breathe.

Thank you, flatmap, for your reply.

 

[jlbrach]

Sadly I do not think Pono is going to make it,I do not see what they are offering that is not already out there in the market?One can buy a sony walkman player that has the same capacity and the same ability to play FLAC etc for 100 dollars less and or buy a used Astell Kern 100 for 100 dollars less that has even greater capacity etc....there are already numerous sites that offer high Rez music !As i said i do not understand what is being offered here that does not already exist in the market other than Neil Youngs signature?

 

[jwbrent]

  Sadly I do not think Pono is going to make it,I do not see what they are offering that is not already out there in the market?One can buy a sony walkman player that has the same capacity and the same ability to play FLAC etc for 100 dollars less and or buy a used Astell Kern 100 for 100 dollars less that has even greater capacity etc....there are already numerous sites that offer high Rez music !As i said i do not understand what is being offered here that does not already exist in the market other than Neil Youngs signature?

The significance of Pono, I believe, is the awareness it created that hi res music exists. Us head-fiers knew about this prior to the kickstarter campaign, but for those less enlightened, Neil Young's ability to garner the accolades of many popular artists opened the eyes of neophytes and now we see momentum in this sphere.
 
Those now enlightened will gravitate towards the Pono music store to make their purchases, but at some point they will become aware that other online retailers exist. What I hope will happen is a downward movement of prices as a result of increased competition. HDtracks, where I purchase the majority of my albums, often discounts titles 10-20%, so we know there is enough margin for retailers to still make a profit based on the volume of sales that result from better pricing.

 

[FastAndBulbous]

I have an A&K120 and it has not been used since the PonoPlayer arrived. That's because the Pono delivers music whereas, in my experience, the A&K, good though it is, does not. Not in the same way anyway. Has a load more features, more storage blah blah blah. But if all you do is compare players on specs you are missing the point. Completely.
 
Pono is about getting back to the music. Albums I have been listening to for decades sound like they should, at last. CD rips, hi res, whatever, they all sound brilliant. The true sign is that I have to move to music again. That went away for a long time, but it is back with Pono.
 
Is a bit like a great turntable. Minimum features, but oh, the music...

 

[jlbrach]

I have an A&K120 and it has not been used since the PonoPlayer arrived. That's because the Pono delivers music whereas, in my experience, the A&K, good though it is, does not. Not in the same way anyway. Has a load more features, more storage blah blah blah. But if all you do is compare players on specs you are missing the point. Completely.
 
Pono is about getting back to the music. Albums I have been listening to for decades sound like they should, at last. CD rips, hi res, whatever, they all sound brilliant. The true sign is that I have to move to music again. That went away for a long time, but it is back with Pono
 
 
This has to be coming from either somebody who works for Pono or has some sort of interest in Pono...I am a bit of a nut when it comes to music and have listened to pretty much every DAP available and the astell kern product is outstanding.....the 120 you mention is superb especially the red wine modified versions.....i actually bought an AK100 with the red wine mod for 482 dollars on e-bay and I would challenge anyone to listen to it and tell me it isnt wonderful sounding or that the Pono is better or even as good but even if it wasnt that isnt the point.....Pono was intoduced and advertised as if it was re-inventing the wheel and providing something not available which is about as far from the truth as possible....I have no problem with or issue with Pono and if it helps to introduce more options for high quality music in the marketplace more power to it but to suggest it is revolutionary is pure BS

 

[jwbrent]

  I have an A&K120 and it has not been used since the PonoPlayer arrived. That's because the Pono delivers music whereas, in my experience, the A&K, good though it is, does not. Not in the same way anyway. Has a load more features, more storage blah blah blah. But if all you do is compare players on specs you are missing the point. Completely.
 
Pono is about getting back to the music. Albums I have been listening to for decades sound like they should, at last. CD rips, hi res, whatever, they all sound brilliant. The true sign is that I have to move to music again. That went away for a long time, but it is back with Pono.
 
Is a bit like a great turntable. Minimum features, but oh, the music...

interesting post ...

 

[jlbrach]

The pono player will never be able to match the sound quality of the newer Astell Kern models but they are a fair bit more expensive....I was comparing the Pono to the older Astell kern models which can be had now for less than the Pono and the Astell kern has more capacity and a better UI....the point of my post is simply the fact that the Pono is not creating a new product or category,they are just joining the existing market for higher Rez DAP's......their marketing contention was that the Pono was a new product category which it isnt and something that doesnt exist in the marketplace...but it does.I will be very surprised if it survives

 

[FastAndBulbous]

jlbrach
 
Very early in this thread I laid out who I am and what I do. I am a moderator on the Pono forum, have no commercial relationship with Pono of any nature and am a music lover. If you want to doubt my integrity that is up to you. Is a bit dubious to do so though TBH.
 
All I am saying is what I have found. I am used to reasonably high end hi fi, including headphones. Not the best, but pretty good. The A&K 120 I bought 18 months ago and very impressive it is too. I backed the PonoPlayer because of what it was attempting to do and I like what Neil Young stands for and how he stands for it. I just took a gamble along with 18,000+ others. I had no idea whether it would deliver or not. My first impressions of the sound from it were not good to put it mildly, it sounded harsh, bright and thin. But, for me at least, it seems to be one of the most susceptible devices to burn in I have used. It got better quite quickly, equalling the 120, more or less. It then took a few more weeks before it really opened out. And now it sounds, like music really. Is that simple. Even albums I had written off as 'great music, shame about the quality' bring a smile to my face. The PonoPlayer is way down on feature count, it's an odd shape (but for good reason - take a look at the discrete component count) and doesn't have the super precision production engineering of the A&K. I couldn't give a stuff. Not when I find myself bopping to albums I never thought would make me do so again. 
 
And then there is the balanced mode output, which is unique in its configuration I think? I use a pair of modified HD600s - not the best cans I know, but they are half decent - and in balanced mode with doubled output to 2v the Pono drives them well enough volume wise and sounds great - without a headphone amp. For $400. I think the A&K 240 is their only balanced mode output player and that costs a bit more than $400.
 
Have you seen the Tech Sheets on the PonoPlayer - the ones that describe the volume control from Ayre, the balanced mode output and the rationale behind it and so on? I was fortunate enough to be part of a three hour natter with Charlie Hansen, the designer. He has put more or less everything he knows into the PonoPlayer - and that is a lot. And it shows. He reckons it delivers 90% of the quality of his $20K DAC. I can believe it.
 
The Pono store and software are still Beta and have some way to go yet. But they are Beta. The players will all be shipped in the next week I think. That will make them a bit late on the estimated October dates for some and early/on time for the estimated December delivery dates. Yep, there are teething problems. Did anyone really imagine there wouldn't be? On a KS project that was almost 800% oversubscribed?
 
I really don't care what anyone thinks of me or whether you want to cast aspersions on my integrity, experience, honesty or anything else. That's up to you, if you do so, that says as much about you as anything else. 

As for the kit I use right now, there's an old but fully up to date Michell Gyrodec SE with modified Rega arm, Dynavector DV20a going into Arcam C31 pre and P1 mono bloc power amps driving Wilson Benesch speakers with a REL sub, all hooked up with good Chord cables, and a CD37 and a StreamMagic 6.  Like I say, not the best, but not too shabby. Previous kit has included Audio Research, Meridian, Proac, the usual suspects really. Oh, cans include Ety ER4-P, ACS Evolve customs (used to be called the T1s), the HD600s and some lesser stuff too. 
 
And I assume you have actually heard the PonoPlayer?
 
best
 
i

 

[FastAndBulbous]

  The pono player will never be able to match the sound quality of the newer Astell Kern models but they are a fair bit more expensive....

On what basis? because you say so? I could reverse your position and assert that you obviously work for A&K or have some relationship with them, but I would not do that.
 
Me? I just trust my ears and love what the PonoPlayer does. I have no axe to grind, no allegiances of any kind. Other than to the love of music and what it does when it makes me feel the way the performer intended. Been chasing that for a long time. Pono delivers it for me and for many others too. If the A&K was better for me I would use that. Simple. 
 
As for innovation theories, Pono is nether discontinuous nor disruptive in its feature set or positioning. But it does compete in a discontinuous and disruptive manner. In that it brings the prices of really high end sound right down and connects people in a way that other products do not. Which may or may not be a successful Chasm crossing strategy, time will tell.  There is a bigger picture though - to do with the musicians, the social network and such like. That is just forming. From what you say, it seems you are only looking at the player - there's a whole lot more to Pono than that.
 
It ain't perfect and there are problems to overcome along the way for sure. 

 

[Saraguie]

My 0.2 cents is, the Pono player, Pono website, Neil thumping the podium is all great to further our hobby.  I backed the Pono project by buying a NY signature model for only that reason.
 
All the rest, commercial success and whether it is really anything new is besides the point, right? The masses will listen to Neil Young because he is so recognizable. Most people on our planet have never heard of Audeze, Astel & Kern, Red Wine Audio, and Tralucent Audio to name a few of the companies we H.F.'s know. If the powers to be up the quality of the masters which dictate the SQ of the music we listen to, because of Neil's rhetoric.....isn't that worth all of Pono's campaign?

 

[jlbrach]

FWIIW the new AK100 2 has balanced out and wi-fi etc and you can get it for around 700 dollars...once again my point is not to debate whether or not the Pono sounds good or not I am sure it will sound good...I am only responding because the moderator said the Pono is a league above the Astell Kern....My point is and remains that the Pono was originally spoken of as something brand new that doesnt exist in the market,that is not true....If Pono is able to bring more attention to the high rez market and create more interest in it then I will applaud it.

 

[meat01]

Can we keep this thread on topic with impressions, meaning those who have heard the player?
 
Feel free to post whether you think Pono will make it in the other thread.
 
Thanks,

 

[jwbrent]

  My 0.2 cents is, the Pono player, Pono website, Neil thumping the podium is all great to further our hobby.  I backed the Pono project by buying a NY signature model for only that reason.
 
All the rest, commercial success and whether it is really anything new is besides the point, right? The masses will listen to Neil Young because he is so recognizable. Most people on our planet have never heard of Audeze, Astel & Kern, Red Wine Audio, and Tralucent Audio to name a few of the companies we H.F.'s know. If the powers to be up the quality of the masters which dictate the SQ of the music we listen to, because of Neil's rhetoric.....isn't that worth all of Pono's campaign?

yep