The Opamp thread
Jun 24, 2019 at 3:50 PM Post #6,706 of 7,383
there are all kinds of potential problems with DC offset, etc. if you just slap one into a circuit on a breakout board.
In defence of OPA1622 on a circuit board (cheap ebay version), it works just fine in practice, even if in theory there are some valid concerns about using it on DIP8 PCB.

Ground is derived from splitting rails using resistors indeed, but it does not manifest in increased DC offset (I observe sub-1mV DC offsets in my fully DC-coupled setups), and John mentioned something like 3-6dB noise increase in noise above 10kHz if using this arrangement, which is negligible (and probably would still be below many opamp's noise anyway).

Ebay board houses 2 power bypass caps (not sure if John's had those), which helps.
I ususally replace resistors with extra set of caps (actually, I replace resistors and stock caps using 0805 0.1 and 22uF caps) and then provide connection to ground via extra wire, if using OPA1622 as a permanent solution. I also customary configure them as voltage followers, as they work as buffers just fine (and it requires only 2 bridges on DIP8 PCB board).

But also OPA1622 is perfect for driving HP directly, as it has high capacitive load ability, high current output, short protection and lowish output impedance, so even on a PCB board it is perfect replacement for any DIP8 socketed opamp driving headphones well worth consideration.

Downsides of OPA1622 that I noticed: low-level pop when powering up (even when using delayed power on using enable pin), it is also quite susceptible to EMI.
 
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Jun 25, 2019 at 10:52 AM Post #6,708 of 7,383
Planning to swap out the buffers on Xduoo XD05,

BUF634U vs HA-5002 vs LMH6321

Anyone can help are these inter changeable and sonic differences?

Can’t really comment on the comparisons head-to-head. However I got the upgraded BUF634AU which is in prototypical and can only be purchased directly from TI.

http://www.ti.com/product/BUF634A

All I can say is, it’s VERY powerful and my guess it requires a dap that can handle it.

The “sound” I found was overpowering and overkill for when paired with differential operational amp of personal choice unless your dap is severally under power (I’m guessing) it would work well?!..Then again if you already know what pairs well with the BUF634 you are ahead of the game!

Curious with what the feedback the tread will say in response to your question as it’s an interesting one!

The HA-5002 looks sweet on paper as a hybrid CMOS that operates as both a buffer amp and regular amp but I have no clue what it sounds like sonically! Curious what others’ thoughts are experiencing this one!
 
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Jun 25, 2019 at 11:06 AM Post #6,709 of 7,383
Ebay board houses 2 power bypass caps (not sure if John's had those), which helps.
I ususally replace resistors with extra set of caps (actually, I replace resistors and stock caps using 0805 0.1 and 22uF caps) and then provide connection to ground via extra wire, if using OPA1622 as a permanent solution. I also customary configure them as voltage followers, as they work as buffers just fine (and it requires only 2 bridges on DIP8 PCB board).

”Ebay board houses 2 power bypass caps (not sure if John's had those), which helps.
I ususally replace resistors with extra set of caps (actually, I replace resistors and stock caps using 0805 0.1 and 22uF caps) and then provide connection to ground via extra wire, if using OPA1622 as a permanent solution. I also customary configure them as voltage followers, as they work as buffers just fine (and it requires only 2 bridges on DIP8 PCB board).”

I take this info as a grain of salt as one’s personal opinion and bias as it was stated that it was purchased on eBay and isn't certified AB Tested nor tested by the widespread DIYER community as a general consensus. Moreover these are arbitrary modification with subjective hear testing results. I would remind everyone this is a DIYER not an TI engineer stating these findings as facts. Unless, John himself gave direct feedback to this mod as being trustworthy, I wouldn't trust it.

You could probably get similar sonic results by using opa1688 soic 8 that is more diy friendly sans questionable modifications.
 
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Jun 25, 2019 at 11:32 AM Post #6,710 of 7,383
Can’t really comment on the comparisons head-to-head. However I got the upgraded BUF634AU which is in prototypical and can only be purchased directly from TI.

http://www.ti.com/product/BUF634A

All I can say is, it’s VERY powerful and my guess it requires a dap that can handle it.

The “sound” I found was overpowering and overkill for when paired with differential operational amp of personal choice unless your dap is severally under power (I’m guessing) it would work well?!..Then again if you already know what pairs well with the BUF634 you are ahead of the game!

Curious with what the feedback the tread will say in response to your question as it’s an interesting one!

The HA-5002 looks sweet on paper as a hybrid CMOS that operates as both a buffer amp and regular amp but I have no clue what it sounds like sonically! Curious what others’ thoughts are experiencing this one!

Hey! after quick research I gathered: All 3 are available in SOIC8

HA-5002 sounds more spacious, clearer than BUF634U (which is a tad warm sounding & veiled) but the problem is that HA-5002 does not have output current short protection - headphone jack removal during usage can potentially burn out the buffers?

LMH6321 not enough user feedback. read it has a heatsink underside.
 
Jun 25, 2019 at 11:46 AM Post #6,711 of 7,383
HA-5002 does not have output current short protection - headphone jack removal during usage can potentially burn out the buffers?

You definitely want to err on the side of caution so it would be best to get feedback of users who have experienced with the HA-5002.

DAPS made today have so many protection and safeguards that make them virtually idiot proof but again this is just a guess!

That said if the description is accurate I love to try the HA-5002 as spacious and bandwidth is more of an importance for me than warmer as you can always get that from a op amp is your personal liking.

I have found its harder to find op amps that are spacious and not in a faux way. It's like that with firmware as well!
 
Jun 25, 2019 at 11:59 AM Post #6,712 of 7,383
You definitely want to err on the side of caution so it would be best to get feedback of users who have experienced with the HA-5002.

DAPS made today have so many protection and safeguards that make them virtually idiot proof but again this is just a guess!

That said if the description is accurate I love to try the HA-5002 as spacious and bandwidth is more of an importance for me than warmer as you can always get that from a op amp is your personal liking.

I have found its harder to find op amps that are spacious and not in a faux way. It's like that with firmware as well!

Looking at specs, LMH6321 appears safer to solder in, considering it's made by Texas Instruments as well, and it's specs mostly match with BUF634U (similar input current 20ma), HA5002 has 8.5ma input current.


For spacious sounding opamp, try AD8065, OPA627, LME49710
 
Jun 25, 2019 at 12:05 PM Post #6,713 of 7,383
LMH6321 not enough user feedback. read it has a heatsink underside.

I've used the LMH6643 quite a bit as it can deliver reasonable current reasonably linearly but it is a lower voltage range part more suited to USB applications, etc. and it is slightly coloured but nothing terrible - however I don't recommend the 6000 and 7000 series for audio use - they are mostly designed for things like DSL line drivers and professional buffer applications like video or other optical processing and the implementation used to get high slew rates or large current capabilities doesn't tend to be optimal for audio - the 6643 does atleast have some audio consideration in its design albeit not a main focus.
 
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Jun 25, 2019 at 12:10 PM Post #6,714 of 7,383
Looking at specs, LMH6321 appears safer to solder in, considering it's made by Texas Instruments as well, and it's specs mostly match with BUF634U (similar input current 20ma), HA5002 has 8.5ma input current.


For spacious sounding opamp, try AD8065, OPA627, LME49710

Oh yeah thanks I'm well aware of the OPA627 being spacious.

I was referring to the Buffer Application with those qualities: clear and spacious.

When it comes to specs unless someone more experienced who tests this stuff with a clear ”winner” I’ll normally commit the faux pas of trusting my ears (aka subjectivity).

There is certainly different schools of thought about functionality vs aesthetics in personal sound. So it's kind of an Art. Having made many mistakes and cringe-worthy newbie posts on Head-Fi. I “try” to stay on the science side of things and keep my subjectivity at bay.

I read this in head fi guidelines and try to make post with this in mind at all times.

“I think that every review, impression, or de facto "this product sounds better than that" statement would be made immeasurably better if it was required to have these three disclaimers:

1. This is only my opinion.
2. I am biased, like everyone else.
3. I have not heard everything in the world.”
 
Jun 25, 2019 at 12:17 PM Post #6,715 of 7,383
In defence of OPA1622 on a circuit board (cheap ebay version), it works just fine in practice, even if in theory there are some valid concerns about using it on DIP8 PCB.

Ground is derived from splitting rails using resistors indeed, but it does not manifest in increased DC offset (I observe sub-1mV DC offsets in my fully DC-coupled setups), and John mentioned something like 3-6dB noise increase in noise above 10kHz if using this arrangement, which is negligible (and probably would still be below many opamp's noise anyway).

Ebay board houses 2 power bypass caps (not sure if John's had those), which helps.
I ususally replace resistors with extra set of caps (actually, I replace resistors and stock caps using 0805 0.1 and 22uF caps) and then provide connection to ground via extra wire, if using OPA1622 as a permanent solution. I also customary configure them as voltage followers, as they work as buffers just fine (and it requires only 2 bridges on DIP8 PCB board).

But also OPA1622 is perfect for driving HP directly, as it has high capacitive load ability, high current output, short protection and lowish output impedance, so even on a PCB board it is perfect replacement for any DIP8 socketed opamp driving headphones well worth consideration.

Downsides of OPA1622 that I noticed: low-level pop when powering up (even when using delayed power on using enable pin), it is also quite susceptible to EMI.

My intention isn't to be negative of the 1622 - it is very good at what it is intended to do and if you have the knowledge to get the best out of it in a DIP-8 context as you obviously do then another story but I don't recommend people just buy them pre-mounted on a breakout board and stick them into any old amp/DAC though obviously that also goes for a lot of regular opamps as well.

I was referring to the Buffer Application with those qualities: clear and spacious.

Good buffer opamps are a bit limited in terms of what is available :frowning2: if you actually need reasonable amounts of current but not too high the NJM/JRC4556 is perfectly acceptable but it isn't my first choice in situations where some kind of buffer helps with performance but you don't need lots of current.

Another option if you need current is the OPA551 but without reasonable knowledge of how to use it and ideally a good idea of the kind of support circuitry that would be best practise with it you can easily make something that kills the opamp or what you have connected to it :s (also similar story for the AD8397).

My personal preference at the moment is the 1692 and parallel them if I need more current than one can provide (don't just solder them to each other directly LOL).
 
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Jun 25, 2019 at 1:46 PM Post #6,716 of 7,383
My intention isn't to be negative of the 1622 - it is very good at what it is intended to do

Exactly, it wasn’t intended for this usage if it was they would have made a soic for it!

The biggest seductive quality of op amp 1622 is that it’s intended to be use to power low impedance headphones which ALSO requires headphone amps or daps that are specifically designed for.

Not that it is “wrong” to attempt to turn a dap and op amp NOT designed for IEMs to be a constructive critic but it is very unorthodox. Just because it can be done doesn’t mean you get the optimal results or that it’s for everyone and may also damage your equipment in the long run.

It’s seems to a be seductive quality to attempt this modification to lower resistance to zero and implement op amp 1622. Even so the majority of portable commercial headphone jack only have an output of 12 volts and by the time a battery powered series circuitry hits your ears it’s more like 3VDC. I would imagine you do hit a ceiling. Not sure if current based headphones are better for IEMs (resistance often lowers current) but even so if the dap chip isn’t performing at its optimal specs because of space restraints it’s a moot point to attempt this in my view to get lower dbs if you cannot preamp those frequencies anyway. And is it really worth all that trouble to get less than 2% of better audio. I don’t think so.

Updated:

DIYER

“Downsides of OPA1622 that I noticed: low-level pop when powering up (even when using delayed power on using enable pin), it is also quite susceptible to EMI.“

TI does make an evaluation board that includes a headphone jack output for only 25 dollars. I would sincerely doubt that John would endorse a circuitry found on EBAY. Lol.

TI Engineers:

Features

Eases design by providing a quick and simple way to evaluate the OPA1622

Audio jack provided on the EVM allows for quick listening tests of the OPA1622

Input connectors on the EVM provide an easy way to evaluate the OPA1622 using an audio analyzer or an audio DAC that will be used in an end product

The EVM design allows access to the Enable pin of the OPA1622 to test for a "pop" and "click" noise while the OPA1622 is being enable and disabled

http://www.ti.com/tool/OPA1622EVM

DIYER

“But also OPA1622 is perfect for driving HP directly, as it has high capacitive load ability...lowish output impedance, so even on a PCB board it is perfect replacement for any DIP8 socketed opamp driving headphones well worth consideration.“

TI Engineers:

“With high linear output current of 80mArms, the OPA1622EVM can drive headphone loads of 8Ω, 16Ω, 32Ω, 300Ω, 600Ω and higher”

For your consideration: Typically the lower the Ohms, the easier the headphones (& IEMs) are to drive. Provided that dap/headphone can push out 8 Ohms or above. In layman’s terms a dap/headphone designed for it.

Most headphones on the market are less than 8 Ohms and most desktop dac or headphones would require their own power supply to carry the high load of 300-600 Ohms. Therefore it’s not a “perfect replacement” as plug and play for anyone driving any old headphones.
 
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Jun 25, 2019 at 8:55 PM Post #6,717 of 7,383
Another one I had a play with was the LM6172 - I think I was having problems getting it stable maybe - didn't get around to scoping it - but for audio it was quite grainy and coloured.

I might be getting a bit mixed up between which of the LM and LMH ones are in the same series and/or I've tried - tried a few in the 6000 and 7000 numbering but might be getting mixed up which were the LM and which were LMH. (Definitely LMH6643 and LM6172 though as I have them in my opamp box).
 
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Jun 26, 2019 at 12:19 AM Post #6,718 of 7,383
Hey! after quick research I gathered: All 3 are available in SOIC8

HA-5002 sounds more spacious, clearer than BUF634U (which is a tad warm sounding & veiled) but the problem is that HA-5002 does not have output current short protection - headphone jack removal during usage can potentially burn out the buffers?

LMH6321 not enough user feedback. read it has a heatsink underside.

HA-5002 have an output current short protection by two resistors - please see page 5
https://www.renesas.com/eu/en/www/doc/datasheet/ha-5002.pdf

The BUF634 could be driven into a small Class-A region 15 .. 20mA by the ESD bridge, BUF634a only 8.5 mA
https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/buf634.pdf
https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/buf634a.pdf
 
Jun 26, 2019 at 1:22 AM Post #6,719 of 7,383
Jun 26, 2019 at 2:00 AM Post #6,720 of 7,383

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