The Opamp thread

[pelopidas]

Hey Mike!
 
damn it.. you are talking me into spending 300 bucks to satisfy a curiosity itch. I hope my wife does not read this thread. 

 
If your PB2 does not benefit from the Silmics then there is absolutely no reason to use them.
When I first started playing around with the capacitors it was because some of my opamps (AD797 and some others) were prone to oscillating. I tried compensating to reduce bandwidth and that worked for the lme49990 but the 797 was being a bugger in my Xonar. Also I didn't really like the sound when compensated. 
The reason I even tried putting a cap across the power pins was to help eliminate the oscillations. It worked. That is also where I learned of how profoundly it effects the sound of some opamps. 
And the moral of that story is that you never know where the rabbit hole leads you.
 
Here is another rabbit hole. I have played with alot of film capacitors. The first place a novice audio hobbyist goes is input capacitors. You learn the signature of whatever cap is your favorite and try to improve with bypassing etc. Well, the thing that was eye-opening is that film does not sound the same in a PSU position as in DC blocking input cap position. I have even come so far as to say that film is no good in psu position. 
Electrolytic all the way for PSU. Low ESR is not predictive of good sound. High ESR is not predictive of bad sound. Electrolytics are more Art than Science when it comes to sound. 
But here is what I found with film caps. They squeeze the soundstage, never make it wider. I tried teflon. OMG its terrible when you bypass your PSU with that. It smears the trebble. It makes everything that is sharp sound round. 
But as an input cap they are fantastic. 
So that is my can of worms.. Who wants to go fishing with that? I'm not dogmatic, these are just my experiences with my equipment. I would love to hear what others think. 
The easiest test is to put the largest value film cap you have on a dip adapter and put your opamp in there and listen. 

 

[NymPHONOmaniac]

Hi guys, i'm not an OP-AMP Savvy dude and don't know nothing about it but I want to learn and especially heard the possibilities of soundsignature it can give.
 
 

To begin with I see this portable amp that have 2 changeable OP AMP and wonder if it's a good buy:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Douk-Audio-Portable-Hi-Fi-Amp-Class-AB-Stereo-High-Current-Headphone-Amplifier/282074576928?_trksid=p2046732.c100040.m2060&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140107095009%26meid%3D21140dde269f45efaebee1ebe8e98ef6%26pid%3D100040%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D272049263172&autorefresh=true
 
Question is:
Do dual OP AMP will sound better and give more power and precision?
 
What should we look for in portable amp circuitry if any know?
 
How can we know the Op amp we can use that will work with the amp?
 
I search for something better than my Fiio E7 that have changeable Op amp option and is portable.
 
 
Thanks for any toughs and help and sorry for my idiotic-looking questions!

 

[canthearyou]

Here is my little review/comparison between a few opamps. I was gonna do a big write-up but, life has gotten in the way of any real free time.
 
See my amp mods here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/770610/introducing-the-matrix-m-stage-hpa-3u-and-hpa-3b-review-to-follow/150#post_12641691
 
Audio chain: laptop>ifipower>Gustard U12>Gustard X12>Matrix M-Stage HPA3-B>HiFiMan HE-500
 
With the little time I've gotten to swap and listen to a few opamps I've come to a few conclusions.
 
Burson V5:
A mellow sound, laid back, if you would. Nothing seems to stand out, all very balanced. Vocals seem to blend into the music(not sure if this is good or bad). And the soundstage seems to be on the small side.
 
Burson V5i: Similar to the V5 but better in a few ways. The vocals sound so lifelike and energetic. Sounds as if the artists are in the room with you. Also the bass is more pronounced and lively. The soundstage is very good. Not too big or too small.
 
Sparkos Labs SS3602: Very clear, almost analytical. Vocals are not veiled, but stale sounding. The instrument separation is ridiculous! Every single sound has its own space and time. You can really pick apart the music. The highs are very clear and pronounced not harsh at all, though. And the soundstage is on the small side.
 

 

[WilliamLeonhart]

Am I right to deduce that the V5i's soundstage is better than the V5ss?

Here is my little review/comparison between a few opamps. I was gonna do a big write-up but, life has gotten in the way of any real free time.

See my amp mods here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/770610/introducing-the-matrix-m-stage-hpa-3u-and-hpa-3b-review-to-follow/150#post_12641691

Audio chain: laptop>ifipower>Gustard U12>Gustard X12>Matrix M-Stage HPA3-B>HiFiMan HE-500

With the little time I've gotten to swap and listen to a few opamps I've come to a few conclusions.

Burson V5:
A mellow sound, laid back, if you would. Nothing seems to stand out, all very balanced. Vocals seem to blend into the music(not sure if this is good or bad). And the soundstage seems to be on the small side.

Burson V5i: Similar to the V5 but better in a few ways. The vocals sound so lifelike and energetic. Sounds as if the artists are in the room with you. Also the bass is more pronounced and lively. The soundstage is very good. Not too big or too small.

Sparkos Labs SS3602: Very clear, almost analytical. Vocals are not veiled, but stale sounding. The instrument separation is ridiculous! Every single sound has its own space and time. You can really pick apart the music. The highs are very clear and pronounced not harsh at all, though. And the soundstage is on the small side.

[

 

[pelopidas]

I would guess that the sonic signature is dependent on the equipment. Others have come to different conclusions based on different setups. One relative constant finding though seems to be that the Sparkos opamps are currently top dog.
Canthearyou - consider also removing the other 4 nichicon caps and replace with silmic. That might help open the soundstage a little more. While the nicichons have always seemed correct to me, the soundstage has a defined radius that the silmics don't seem to suffer from.

How long did you let all the discreet opamps burn in for? I'm just wondering because your findings are surprising to me.

 

[canthearyou]

I would guess that the sonic signature is dependent on the equipment. Others have come to different conclusions based on different setups. One relative constant finding though seems to be that the Sparkos opamps are currently top dog.
Canthearyou - consider also removing the other 4 nichicon caps and replace with silmic. That might help open the soundstage a little more. While the nicichons have always seemed correct to me, the soundstage has a defined radius that the silmics don't seem to suffer from.

How long did you let all the discreet opamps burn in for? I'm just wondering because your findings are surprising to me.

I did let the opamps burn for for many hours. But I was not able to give them the true listening due to busy schedule. I do plan on a thorough listening coming up in the off season.

 

[zilch0md]

  Hey Mike!
 
damn it.. you are talking me into spending 300 bucks to satisfy a curiosity itch. I hope my wife does not read this thread. 

 
If your PB2 does not benefit from the Silmics then there is absolutely no reason to use them.
 
[snip]
 
The easiest test is to put the largest value film cap you have on a dip adapter and put your opamp in there and listen. 

 
I, too, struggled with, but finally succumbed to that same curiosity itch, but no regrets this time.

  
 
If anything, I feel as if I shouldn't have bought the Burson V5, but I have so much affection for them, even though they are gathering dust at the moment, and if I had purchased the Sparkos first, I'd still be dying to know what the V5 sounds like. There's no escape!  
 
That's what drives this industry more than anything else - having to buy the book before we can read it.  

 
The distinction I had tried to make in my last post is that the SILMIC II caps sounded great with the Burson V5 duals in my iBasso PB2, but the same caps, soldered across pins 4 and 8, caused the Sparkos SS3602 to make a loud pop and then no audio at all in the PB2.
 
But, again, I love the way those caps sound with the Burson V5 duals in my PB2, even though I've had no evidence of any problem with oscillation. 
 

  Here is my little review/comparison between a few opamps. I was gonna do a big write-up but, life has gotten in the way of any real free time.
 
See my amp mods here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/770610/introducing-the-matrix-m-stage-hpa-3u-and-hpa-3b-review-to-follow/150#post_12641691
 
Audio chain: laptop>ifipower>Gustard U12>Gustard X12>Matrix M-Stage HPA3-B>HiFiMan HE-500
 
With the little time I've gotten to swap and listen to a few opamps I've come to a few conclusions.
 
Burson V5:
A mellow sound, laid back, if you would. Nothing seems to stand out, all very balanced. Vocals seem to blend into the music(not sure if this is good or bad). And the soundstage seems to be on the small side.
 
Burson V5i: Similar to the V5 but better in a few ways. The vocals sound so lifelike and energetic. Sounds as if the artists are in the room with you. Also the bass is more pronounced and lively. The soundstage is very good. Not too big or too small.
 
Sparkos Labs SS3602: Very clear, almost analytical. Vocals are not veiled, but stale sounding. The instrument separation is ridiculous! Every single sound has its own space and time. You can really pick apart the music. The highs are very clear and pronounced not harsh at all, though. And the soundstage is on the small side.
 

 

 
First, I am again humbled by yet another person with amazing DIY skills.  I am so limited to "plug and play!"  
 
Having not yet heard the Burson V5i, I'm intrigued by your comments regarding the V5 and the Sparkos SS3602.  I actually find them completely consistent with my own experience, except for your finding the V5 soundstage to be "on the small side."  Then again, for whatever reason, I've never been comfortable reviewing the depth and width of soundstage between any two components. I'm often amazed at how comfortable other people seem to be in this regard.  Maybe my brain is just a little bit more "mono" than that of others.  

  Even so, or perhaps because of my own inabilities, I never found the V5 soundstage to be confined in any way.  
 
Everything else you've written about the V5 is spot on with my experience.  I liken the V5 sound to that of the Burson Soloist, which I owned for several months before selling it - because it was too laid back for my tastes - as if I was seated far from the stage. The V5 isn't nearly as bad in this regard, going on memory of my Soloist, but swapping in the SS3602 puts me right up front with the musicians.
 
The V5 treble isn't nearly as smooth (as in "veiled") as the Soloist, either. I never felt I could extract all available detail using the Soloist, that I can extract using the V5 in my PB2, but again, matching your assessment, the SS3602 pulls out every last bit of detail, and does so with no harshness - even with the finicky HD800, which has no tolerance for the brittle edginess I can hear with the Oppo HA-1, for example.
 
And yes, with the SS3602, it's as if a blackness is wrapped around every morsel of sound. Violins have never sounded cleaner - and I hate violin ensembles, as a rule - only because they are so hard to reproduce accurately - often sounding like big blocks of coarse Styrofoam being rubbed together.  The Sparkos SS3602 presents violin ensembles with clarity, where, in comparison, the Burson V5 seems to put a very subtle "glow" around everything - allowing instruments to bleed into each other's space.  I'm being very picky here - this distinction is subtle, not strong. The V5 is wonderful with violins. It's just that there is a detectable improvement with the SS3602.
 
tidal.com/album/34045841
 
I'm looking forward to your more seasoned assessments - after you've had them for awhile.
 
 
By the way, while in that thread you linked, I came across this post:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/770610/introducing-the-matrix-m-stage-hpa-3u-and-hpa-3b-review-to-follow/105#post_12393607
 

 
That thing is really cool and, potentially, a big problem solver.

 

[afshin]

Hi
I have a lot of film capacitors including Mundorf  of gold, silver, oil and capacitors Adiyon and many famous capacitors have worked ... I think not ... but they never squeeze soundsatge film capacitors are enriched sound. Sound much more dynamic and more alive ... and more natural sound similar to analog. silver capacitor have more dynamic.for bypass PSU usually a combination of Elna silmic and film power is good. Sonic character capacitor film is very different depending on the brand.I've never been a good result with Teflon capacitors!
 capacitors can change the opamp character.
 
This article is a good reference for learning more about film capacitors. Appeared to bypass opamp even the same character.Do not forget the need to burn-in  of film capacitors long time.
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
 
thanks.afshin

 

[Lohb]

   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/770610/introducing-the-matrix-m-stage-hpa-3u-and-hpa-3b-review-to-follow/105#post_12393607
 

 
That thing is really cool and, potentially, a big problem solver.

In the case of V5i it may short out the dummy buffers as there is an un-needed metal lip around the chip that some have had to file off in some instances. For V5i it may also need a DIP socket to elevate it above touching the dummy buffers and then will the lid close finally ? No dimensions i could find off the links...bad connection now.
I think Burson just need to ship this new generation V5i chip with no metal cube cap over it to make it more form-fitting to existing hardware layouts that were built around old school opamp chip dimensions.

 

[Mad Max]

  Hi
I have a lot of film capacitors including Mundorf  of gold, silver, oil and capacitors Adiyon and many famous capacitors have worked ... I think not ... but they never squeeze soundsatge film capacitors are enriched sound. Sound much more dynamic and more alive ... and more natural sound similar to analog. silver capacitor have more dynamic.for bypass PSU usually a combination of Elna silmic and film power is good. Sonic character capacitor film is very different depending on the brand.I've never been a good result with Teflon capacitors!
 capacitors can change the opamp character.
 
This article is a good reference for learning more about film capacitors. Appeared to bypass opamp even the same character.Do not forget the need to burn-in  of film capacitors long time.
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
 
thanks.afshin

 
WIMA, Vishay, Epcos, and Evox/Kemet don't take that long to burn in, in my experience.  Not even 8 hours.

 

[Unclewall]

I find that they still change over large time periods 

 

[ph0n6]

 
Took some (painful) modding but the sounds of the sparkos is absolutely worth it

 

[Lohb]

 
 
Took some (painful) modding but the sounds of the sparkos is absolutely worth it

Just about to get my set of Sparkos next 10 mins - cannot wait, based on the trusted impressions so far. The last piece in my hardware chain for a while.

 

[Lohb]

A nice little combo for my needs anyway...I felt dummy buffers held back heft and musical richness....

 

[zilch0md]

  A nice little combo for my needs anyway...I felt dummy buffers held back heft and musical richness....

 
I should give that a listen - despite my preconceptions.  Which headphones are you using with the PB2?  Balanced or TRS jack?