[ubs28]

You know what? I didn't want to go there, but agree 100% on this. I stopped taking Tyll's reviews seriously right about then. I read them now and just shrug. The HD800 were the best damn hp in the world-- modded and EQ'd to death! Either you mod and EQ all hps to "bring out their best" or you don't. No peep on possible Z1R modding or EQing. He just trashed them.



Hmm.. you may be onto something here... may have to get in on the action. At any rate, best possible response to a ridiculous statement.



Exactly.

The Sennheiser HD 800 was released almost 10 years ago and was at the time the best dynamic headphone in the world. Back then the TOTL headphone scene looked way different. This is 2017 and these kind of things are unacceptable on a $2200 full sized headphone.

Also in 2017, IEM's are now knocking on the door of TOTL full sized headphones. Cheaper $1100 IEM's like the CA Andromeda are sounding like TOTL full sized headphones nowadays and they don't make big mistakes while being portable at the same time.

 

[nc8000]

Sony made exactly the headphone they intended with the sound they intended so no mistakes there

 

[ubs28]

I'm thinking I should try the Z1R with their own DAP and see how it sounds. Maybe that combo somehow fixes everything.

But so far, I'm more impressed by other offerings in the market at similar or cheaper price.

 

[Naim.F.C]

i've never found it unlistenable but it has a treble tilt to my ears, and i can understand how that 6khz spike would be a deal breaker for some folks. if you prefer a darker, bass heavy presentation then the z1r would most probably suit you better.

I also don't find the HD800 unlistenable, especially not at lower volumes, hence the reason I've still kept mine. But as you and others have mentioned, they're definitely treble tilted, and do sound a little bit less full or slightly cold. Even outside of music, testing instead in gaming or movies, the HD800's simply do not have quite enough bass nor the tonal balance to accurately represent the drama of things like V12 natural aspirated engine notes, clicks, cracks, pops and bangs, or explosions, gun shots, assault rifle bursts, and things similar. These sorts of effects and sounds come off as ever so slightly too muted, crisp and lacking in theatrics or realism with the HD800. On the plus side, they have an incredible amount of transparency and separation, and an absurdly spacious and wide soundstage.

Regarding the Z1R's, on reflection I'm not even sure I'd describe them as especially dark, since they still retain a somewhat healthy amount of high-end sizzle and sparkle, just not to the extent of some of the German cans. Warm is perhaps a better descriptor. Overall they sort of sound like one of the popular high end German cans (eg HD800S or T1) with added bass emphasis and body, and ever so slightly tamed treble. Though still retaining much of that imaging prominence and focus on detailing and soundstage.

I'd describe headphones like the LCD-2 and LCD-3 as more darker sounding since they not only have the aforementioned added bass or mid emphasis, but also notably rolled off or more relaxed treble, lacking in as much sparkle or energy, along with a more congested or less wide soundstage. The benefit of this sort of a darker presentation is the ability to enjoy a more sumptuous, smooth and unfatiguing listen.

Speaking of dark, warm, cold etc, I think this is one of the reasons I personally enjoy the Z1R's so much. If you want a high end, fuller or bass emphasised headphone, you could choose something quite dark sounding like the LCD-2 or LCD-3, but then you lose out on soundstage size and imaging somewhat. Alternately you could pick something more v-shaped like the TH900, but then you risk a higher chance of things being zingy, sounding a touch metallic, thin or hot up top. The Z1R's for me strike a really good balance between the two, falling somewhere directly in-between.

As mentioned earlier, I can't hear any sort of notable 10k spike in my MDR-Z1R's, they are generally free from the kind of temperamental treble that v-shaped, bassy headphones can exhibit, and likewise, they're also not quite as treble rolled off or congested as the two aforementioned Audeze's. That sort of balance was what I was looking for in a high end headphone, for years tbh. And whilst I still think $2000 is too much for a pair of headphones, at least they're not a ridiculous $4000 like the LCD-4's.

 

[Martin79]

I also don't find the HD800 unlistenable with eq and low volumes, but little sterile. Not fun!

 

[Naim.F.C]

Really random, but putting price aside, has anyone compared the Beyerdynamic DT1990 Pro's and DT1770 Pro's with the HD800, HD800S, T1, MDR-Z1R, LCD-3, TH900 etc, sonically speaking? For whatever reason, these headphones really call out to me, but if I purchase another pair of headphones for comparison reasons, my wife will most probably set my entire headphone collection on fire lol.

 

[up late]

I also don't find the HD800 unlistenable, especially not at lower volumes, hence the reason I've still kept mine. But as you and others have mentioned, they're definitely treble tilted, and do sound a little bit less full or slightly cold. Even outside of music, testing instead in gaming or movies, the HD800's simply do not have quite enough bass nor the tonal balance to accurately represent the drama of things like V12 natural aspirated engine notes, clicks, cracks, pops and bangs, or explosions, gun shots, assault rifle bursts, and things similar. These sorts of effects and sounds come off as ever so slightly too muted, crisp and lacking in theatrics or realism with the HD800. On the plus side, they have an incredible amount of transparency and separation, and an absurdly spacious and wide soundstage.

Regarding the Z1R's, on reflection I'm not even sure I'd describe them as especially dark, since they still retain a somewhat healthy amount of high-end sizzle and sparkle, just not to the extent of some of the German cans. Warm is perhaps a better descriptor. Overall they sort of sound like one of the popular high end German cans (eg HD800S or T1) with added bass emphasis and body, and ever so slightly tamed treble. Though still retaining much of that imaging prominence and focus on detailing and soundstage.

I'd describe headphones like the LCD-2 and LCD-3 as more darker sounding since they not only have the aforementioned added bass or mid emphasis, but also notably rolled off or more relaxed treble, lacking in as much sparkle or energy, along with a more congested or less wide soundstage. The benefit of this sort of a darker presentation is the ability to enjoy a more sumptuous, smooth and unfatiguing listen.

Speaking of dark, warm, cold etc, I think this is one of the reasons I personally enjoy the Z1R's so much. If you want a high end, fuller or bass emphasised headphone, you could choose something quite dark sounding like the LCD-2 or LCD-3, but then you lose out on soundstage size and imaging somewhat. Alternately you could pick something more v-shaped like the TH900, but then you risk a higher chance of things being zingy, sounding a touch metallic, thin or hot up top. The Z1R's for me strike a really good balance between the two, falling somewhere directly in-between.

As mentioned earlier, I can't hear any sort of notable 10k spike in my MDR-Z1R's, they are generally free from the kind of temperamental treble that v-shaped, bassy headphones can exhibit, and likewise, they're also not quite as treble rolled off or congested as the two aforementioned Audeze's. That sort of balance was what I was looking for in a high end headphone, for years tbh. And whilst I still think $2000 is too much for a pair of headphones, at least they're not a ridiculous $4000 like the LCD-4's.

I didn't say that the z1r is "especially dark" or even "dark", I described it as having a darker presentation relative to the hd800. I found the z1r's highs spot lit at times, so yes, I agree that there is no shortage of "high-end sizzle and sparkle."

 

[Imperfectionist]

The Sennheiser HD 800 was released almost 10 years ago and was at the time the best dynamic headphone in the world. Back then the TOTL headphone scene looked way different. This is 2017 and these kind of things are unacceptable on a $2200 full sized headphone.

Also in 2017, IEM's are now knocking on the door of TOTL full sized headphones. Cheaper $1100 IEM's like the CA Andromeda are sounding like TOTL full sized headphones nowadays and they don't make big mistakes while being portable at the same time.

Excuse me sir, do you own Sony by the way? From the way that you are saying, Sony Z1R soind signature is not acceptable? But yet, many others simply like this tuning that the Sony engineers has envisioned?
My kind sir, to put it simply, why not you enjoy what you like listening to and stop telling others on what is acceptable ? Your arrogance displayed here is perplexing to say the least.

 

[kman1211]

Really random, but putting price aside, has anyone compared the Beyerdynamic DT1990 Pro's and DT1770 Pro's with the HD800, HD800S, T1, MDR-Z1R, LCD-3, TH900 etc, sonically speaking? For whatever reason, these headphones really call out to me, but if I purchase another pair of headphones for comparison reasons, my wife will most probably set my entire headphone collection on fire lol.

Haven't directly compared the Z1R to the DT 1990, DT 1770, or even the Amiron. I own all three of the new Beyers and have owned the T1.2 in the past. The Amiron is sorta like the T1 and HD 650 had a baby being more fluid, soft, warmer, darker, and smoother than the T1 with a lot more bass, does carry hints of the T1s treble extension though but not near as vivid. Though at louder volumes the Amirons do become quite vivid showing their Teslaness.

The DT 1990 is more akin to the T1 in terms of being vivid but notably more intimate and warmer, not quite as expansive nor quite as tight sounding but more dynamically robust with a lot more bass impact and more midrange body to the sound compared to T1, the treble is notably darker and I would argue rolls off a bit after 10khz and doesn't extend quite as much as the T1 or Amiron can but is more dynamically robust in the mids than either. With the analytical pads I would say it's more linear and neutral than the T1.2 reminding me of a more dynamic, spacious, vivid, and detailed HD600. Balanced pads make it slightly v-shaped but also has more body to the sound than the analytical pads.

The DT 1770 is even more intimate than DT 1990 with more sub-bass but doesn't quite have the linearity of the DT 1990 and has a little bit of a closed-back effect going on. All three are less fatiguing and easier on the ears than the T1 to me. The DT 1770 and DT 1990 do have a bit of that dryness that is typical of Beyers though to a less degree than the T1 imho. Hopefully this is of some help.

 

[Naim.F.C]

Haven't directly compared the Z1R to the DT 1990, DT 1770, or even the Amiron. I own all three of the new Beyers and have owned the T1.2 in the past. The Amiron is sorta like the T1 and HD 650 had a baby being more fluid, soft, warmer, darker, and smoother than the T1 with a lot more bass, does carry hints of the T1s treble extension though but not near as vivid. Though at louder volumes the Amirons do become quite vivid showing their Teslaness.

The DT 1990 is more akin to the T1 in terms of being vivid but notably more intimate and warmer, not quite as expansive nor quite as tight sounding but more dynamically robust with a lot more bass impact and more midrange body to the sound compared to T1, the treble is notably darker and I would argue rolls off a bit after 10khz and doesn't extend quite as much as the T1 or Amiron can but is more dynamically robust in the mids than either. With the analytical pads I would say it's more linear and neutral than the T1.2 reminding me of a more dynamic, spacious, vivid, and detailed HD600. Balanced pads make it slightly v-shaped but also has more body to the sound than the analytical pads.

The DT 1770 is even more intimate than DT 1990 with more sub-bass but doesn't quite have the linearity of the DT 1990 and has a little bit of a closed-back effect going on. All three are less fatiguing and easier on the ears than the T1 to me. The DT 1770 and DT 1990 do have a bit of that dryness that is typical of Beyers though to a less degree than the T1 imho. Hopefully this is of some help.

Perfect. Very much appreciate your response. My T1.1's are one of my favourite headphones, and were my go to fave for almost 4 years, despite owning so many other cans during that period, including the HD800S, HD800, LCD-2 etc. The only thing I ever felt the T1.1's lacked, was some added sub bass quantity, so naturally what I've read of the DT1990 appeals to me. Would you say the DT1990 and DT1770 have more sub bass presence than the T1's?

Either way, it sounds like the DT1990 punches way above its pricepoint, and if I can keep it as a secondary or third can, and sell some of my other more expensive headphones, even better.

P.S I did purchase a T1.2 but ended up sticking with my original T1.1 as I felt it just sounded more dynamic, vivid and transparent, and I barely heard any bass differences.

 

[EDN80]

The Sennheiser HD 800 was released almost 10 years ago and was at the time the best dynamic headphone in the world. Back then the TOTL headphone scene looked way different. This is 2017 and these kind of things are unacceptable on a $2200 full sized headphone.

Also in 2017, IEM's are now knocking on the door of TOTL full sized headphones. Cheaper $1100 IEM's like the CA Andromeda are sounding like TOTL full sized headphones nowadays and they don't make big mistakes while being portable at the same time.

"The Sennheiser HD 800 was released almost 10 years ago and was at the time the best dynamic headphone in the world" when properly modded and EQ'ed.

Also, please define "these kind of things", "unacceptable", and "big mistakes".

 

[kman1211]

Perfect. Very much appreciate your response. My T1.1's are one of my favourite headphones, and were my go to fave for almost 4 years, despite owning so many other cans during that period, including the HD800S, HD800, LCD-2 etc. The only thing I ever felt the T1.1's lacked, was some added sub bass quantity, so naturally what I've read of the DT1990 appeals to me. Would you say the DT1990 and DT1770 have more sub bass presence than the T1's?

Either way, it sounds like the DT1990 punches way above its pricepoint, and if I can keep it as a secondary or third can and sell some off my other more expensive headphones, even better.

P.S I did purchase a T1.2 but ended up sticking with my original T1.1 as I felt it just sounded more dynamic, vivid and transparent, and I barely heard any bass differences.

No problem. The DT 1990 and DT 1770 have a lot more sub-bass and mid-bass presence than the T1, they are bass-heavy in comparison. The DT 1990 is fantastic and do punch above their price imho, it's interesting how well liked the DT 1990 is, it's not very controversial from what I've seen, it seems to strike that balance where it offends few. The DT 1990 and Amiron are my two favorite open-back Beyers, I do prefer them to the T1 as they suit my preferences more, though a properly amped T1 is something special. Other people may offer good insight of the Z1R compared compared to the DT 1770/1990 though, a person or two posting on the thread own both the Sony and Beyers I believe.

 

[up late]

"The Sennheiser HD 800 was released almost 10 years ago and was at the time the best dynamic headphone in the world" when properly modded and EQ'ed.

Also, please define "these kind of things", "unacceptable", and "big mistakes".

and why do you assume that every hd800 owner (and there are probably thousands of them) couldn't possibly be satisfied with it stock? the reason i ask is because i know of folks who prefer it stock over modded variants and the hd800s.

 

[Imperfectionist]

and why do you assume that every hd800 owner (and there are probably thousands of them) couldn't possibly be satisfied with it stock? the reason i ask is because i know of folks who prefer it stock over modded variants and the hd800s.

He is quoting ubs28 statement.

 

[up late]

and he added this to it: "when properly modded and EQ'ed."