[taktik]

While I did find the HE-6 overly "bright" I didn't find them zingy like the TH900s.

It depends on the pads chosen for the HE-6, but I agree. Maybe the harmonics, maybe some distortion, maybe the technology of driver (electro vs. planar). I don't know.

 

[Beagle]

Agreed. The treble on the TH-900 was significantly more "zingy" than what the measurements indicated and more fatiguing to my ears than the Z1Rs could ever be (which I actually find rather laid back).

10-12kH would seem to be closer to "air" territory than 6kH "zing", where so many things are affected....vocal sibilants, cymbals, percussion. A peak in one spot is, to my ears, less fatiguing than several smaller ones in a broader range of the upper mid/lower treble area. The Musical Fidelity MF200 is a prime example of fatiguing treble, despite the numerous reviews describing this headphone as 'smooth and warm'. After about 10 minutes, I have to take it off.

This is pure demagogy. Everyone is seeking pleasure. Once you understand what measures mean, once you are enlightened by honest reviews, you can bet that this or that headphones may be good for your taste.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

[thatonenoob]

My feeling is that the peak of the HD800 is different, because it's really a peak. The TH900 has a range of frequencies a bit too high (6-9 kHz). Same for the HE-6. In both cases, a pads replacement solve the problem (ZMF Eikon pads for the HE-6).

I don't expect an answer - but let me just clarify your statements regarding the Z1R.

So far you've not heard it yet (i'm assuming b/c you've not responded the last two times I've brought this up), but thanks to the power of the FR curve, you've been able to arrive at the conclusion "Too much bass, recessed high-medium, veiled and zingy sound. Are these really TOTL headphones".

I appreciate measurements - take them myself, but I will not deliver any conclusive judgement (ever) just by looking at FR alone. For example, the 3 khz ringing on the Z1R is atrocious and has been corroborated if I'm not wrong, but I don't find it to be very annoying, and it seems many have yet to notice it too. So, have you heard these or not?

*I like bold font.

 

[MacedonianHero]

the 10khz peak wasn't bothersome for me either. that said, the treble did seem to jump out at times, so i can relate to tyll's subjective criticism. i suspect that he is more treble sensitive than i am.

I'm pretty sensitive as well to treble spikes. I've recently tested my 45 year old ears and I'm still good to 18kHz-ish FWIW.

 

[up late]

being able to hear them and being sensitive to them are different things, however

 

[MacedonianHero]

being able to hear them and being sensitive to them are different things, however

I realize that, but I am usually fairly sensitive as well. HRTF is different for everyone. Plus there's not much going on at 10kHz when compared to 5-7kHz like so many other headphoes.

 

[up late]

I realize that, but I am usually fairly sensitive as well. HRTF is different for everyone. Plus there's not much going on at 10kHz when compared to 5-7kHz like so many other headphoes.

haven't we been over this? if folks find the (alleged) 10khz peak bothersome then it's an issue for them. fortunately, i'm not one.

 

[jscmd2000]

Why do you guys waste energy talking to someone who hasn't even heard the Z1R?? They will never get it!

 

[nanaholic]

which is supposed to be the aim in order to reproduce the music like the musician recorded it.

This sounds like a very rational goal, but is actually and completely impossible to achieve and is nonsense, simply for the fact that you are assuming the musician and the mixing engineers are using perfectly flat neutral recording and playback gear, and mixed it for perfectly neutral gear. I remember reading somewhere some sound engineers mix contemporary music with the idea that their target audience is going to listen to the music on iPod earphones or crappy laptop speakers that are tinny and lacks bass, so they compensated for those equipment in the mixing by adjusting the FR, so unless you know what they messed with and their mixing goal in the first place, can you seriously say you are listening to music as "the musicians intended it"? No, I would argue you can't. So unless you know EXACTLY what the recording and mixing environment was and how the musicians hear their mixes and builds that exact rig, gets to personally ask what the musicians and engineers heard at the time of mixing (and if you really are a science guy, you would know their physical and emotional factors at the time of hearing WILL make the music sound different eg the engineer may be working OT and his hearing is affected because he/she is tired), there is simply NO way you can build a kit that "reproduce the music as the musicians recorded it". It's simply an unattainable goal and isn't actually a worthy argument for or against audio gear.

The target curve shows simply one thing and ONE thing only - how accurate it reproduce a soundwave. Bringing in factors like "how musicians recorded/heard/intended it" is a misguided argument.

 

[daddyo1973]

On a more serious note @nordkapp thanks for the recommendation. Listening to Bluetech now on Tidal.

 

[nordkapp]

On a more serious note @nordkapp thanks for the recommendation. Listening to Bluetech now on Tidal.

Awesome! Trying to lighten the mood.

 

[nanaholic]

Someone pointed out and directed me to a recent review of the Shure KSE1500 and was surprised to find a phrase that I have been thinking about, about the Z1R.
https://www.theverge.com/headphone-...shure-kse1500-review-electrostatic-headphones

The reviewer says the sound was too accurate and lacking distortion, as if distortion is a good thing??

Nothing new.....Numerous research has shown a lot of average people subjectively preferring what we would call "distorted" music - vinyl vs CDs, mp3s vs lossless, tube amps vs SS amps.

So again, nobody can tell me why we are singling out headphones in particular and not the entire chain....

 

[taktik]

The target curve shows simply one thing and ONE thing only - how accurate it reproduce a soundwave. Bringing in factors like "how musicians recorded/heard/intended it" is a misguided argument.

The target curve represents a reasonable goal to achieve. It's of course not an absolute, but a reference over which we can evaluate and discuss. Tyll often says that he likes 2 or 3 more dB in the bass area. Everyone is building its own target thanks to this reference. Of course, there are all the other measurements, but we are focus over the FR because of the discrepancy between Tyll's and Jude's measurements.

 

[nordkapp]

Nothing new.....Numerous research has shown a lot of average people subjectively preferring what we would call "distorted" music - vinyl vs CDs, mp3s vs lossless, tube amps vs SS amps.

So again, nobody can tell me why we are singling out headphones in particular and not the entire chain....

Excellent point.

 

[headr]

Nothing new.....Numerous research has shown a lot of average people subjectively preferring what we would call "distorted" music - vinyl vs CDs, mp3s vs lossless, tube amps vs SS amps.

So again, nobody can tell me why we are singling out headphones in particular and not the entire chain....

Actually, even "reference curves" are fundamentally based on what people prefer. The Harman research showed that people prefer boosted bass and rolled off treble. So that's what is baked into the curve.

Many speaker and headphone manufacturers are using the Harman reference to inform their marketing decisions, because it is based entirely off people's preferences, and they want to appeal to as many people as possible.

So there is a good argument to be made that the Harman reference is simply distorting the music in a way that everybody likes.

Is it better to enjoy the music or to listen to brutally accurate renditions?

Why would anyone be bothered with "what the artist intended" if you don't enjoy it? Are you insulting the artist by listening to their music in a manner that you personally enjoy? Do you really think the artist is going to go into a fuming rant on Facebook about how their fans are daring to actually enjoy their music?

It's all over the top absurd. People can live and die by the accuracy illusion, because that's all it is, an illusion. A ghost. A false prophet. Chasing the dragon.

The rest of us can get back to the music.